Quote from: Abraxus on March 22, 2022, 08:23:08 AM

Quote from: Pat on March 21, 2022, 11:47:40 PM

Quote from: Abraxus on March 21, 2022, 10:13:37 PM
Unfortunately I wonder if Pundit understands how Cocksuck Soyarmy has completely and throughly played him.

I wonder if he cares remotely that he might lose members of his forum. Or that he is behaving exactly like the regressive repressive Wokescolds like other forums like Rpg.net.

Personal admission I have heard of Tekumal the rpg. Came close to joining a game. It never really took off in my neck of the woods beaten soundly by D&D. I'm not a fan of Barker Anti-Semantism I won't call those who pay for or enjoy his products Nazis or those who promote anti-semantism.

Problem is Pundit is so convinced of his side to the point of not being able to see the other side.worse it's like reading one of those sarcastic comments the mods over at Rpg.net or Paizo forums. I'm not seeing any difference at this point really. Either here or on Twitter.

Then again I'm not sure if he remotely cares about chasing away the moderate elements who refuse to kiss his ass. He can surround himself with sycophants I and others like Tenbones are simply not going to do so.

Pundit isn't the one sounding like the regressives at TBP.

The evidence against Barker is pretty damning at this point.

I'm not denying what is being said about Barker.

Yet Punfit very much comes off as a hypocrite imo at this point.

He does not get to play " go go anti-woke SJW  Ranger". Pokes fun at SJWs whenever he can when it's a cause he does not believe in then virtue signal from the highest rooftops about how bad Barker is.

Or to put it another way he does not get a free pass on being a hypocrite simply for who he is. If one claims to want to hear from both sides and an advocate of free speech then he loses the right to be both pissy and passive aggressive when he gets pushback. Then again seeing how he behaves here and on Twitter he is anything but.

Pundit isn't the hypocrite. You are.

This is a clear case of people taking a principled stand by applying the same standards to both sides, and people like you who are taking the position that the only thing that matters is whether the people involved are on your side or theirs. Just look at what you said about Tubesock -- you literally admit that you would have reacted completely differently if the information came from a different source. That's pure partisanship.

You're the one doing all those things you're accusing the Pundit and others of doing. Your accusations are pure projection.

Quote from: Abraxus on March 22, 2022, 08:23:08 AM
You want to be a sycophantic and kiss Pundits ass I'm not doing that.

Fuck you, you miserable piece of shit. I kiss nobody's ass, which even the most cursory examination of my posting history would tell you. You're just completely wrong.

Cucksuck Soyarmy must be enjoying this.


Pretending to be the innocent bearer of truth while we are at each other throats.

Lets not give him that satisfaction.

@Pat

I apologize if I offended you.

Yes Pundit is a hypocrite if it's an SJW cause like Wheelchairs in gaming, either here or on Twitter he openly mocks the SJWs supporting that cause and others he dislikes. Now it's something he likes and believes in suddenly he gets to be " offended " and no one can say otherwise.

He reacts badly to any form of pushback and assumes everything and anything he writes to be the gospel truth. He could have reacted a hell of lot better towards those that disagreed with him in this thread. Instead I see no difference between him and an dog.net mod at this point.

I agree at what he is saying about Barkee yet why assume everyone else will. Especially when he promotes this place as being more open than other forums.

Why is anyone still paying attention to tubesnake for fuck's sake? Did you all decide the crazy and stupid pills looked tasty this morning?

Quote from: Abraxus on March 22, 2022, 10:14:27 AM
@Pat

I apologize if I offended you.

Yes Pundit is a hypocrite if it's an SJW cause like Wheelchairs in gaming, either here or on Twitter he openly mocks the SJWs supporting that cause and others he dislikes. Now it's something he likes and believes in suddenly he gets to be " offended " and no one can say otherwise.

He reacts badly to any form of pushback and assumes everything and anything he writes to be the gospel truth. He could have reacted a hell of lot better towards those that disagreed with him in this thread. Instead I see no difference between him and an dog.net mod at this point.

I agree at what he is saying about Barkee yet why assume everyone else will. Especially when he promotes this place as being more open than other forums.

Thanks. Appreciated.

But can't you see the inconsistency in your argument? You're criticizing Pundit for reacting strongly when it's something he liked (Tekumel, presumably), in contrast to reacting strongly when it's something he doesn't like (combat wheelchairs). Except that's only proof of hyptocrisy if he's defending the thing he likes, and attacking the thing he doesn't like. And that's not what's happening. He's calling Barker a Nazi, and was also very opposed to the wheelchairs. This is holding both sides to the same standard.

Plus, Pundit was fairly late to becoming active in this thread. The please ignore Barker contingent was in full force long before Pundit and I started to really push back. This wouldn't have escalated in the first place if they just said "yep, that's pretty fucking bad. Red!" And moved on. Instead, it became this whole thing about soywhatevers attacking us and we must defend.

Quote from: Abraxus on March 22, 2022, 09:54:42 AM
Cucksuck Soyarmy must be enjoying this.


Pretending to be the innocent bearer of truth while we are at each other throats.

Lets not give him that satisfaction.

Ignore Tube. It's just stupid baiting at this point, and irrelevant to the core issue.

  This thread has started to look like accusations of "not showing enough hate" during the daily 2 minutes of hate.  I say it could be best to let the thread sink to the 2nd page.

You fuckers are gonna make me unlurk.

• The Pundit has never been righter about anything, ever. Once, he picked up a stone, and said, "this is a stone" - and yet, he was not as right then as he is now.




• Anyone who actually read a bit of Barker got to have known that the painting was on the wall there. Barker writes "Easterns" --- of the kind that probably made for vengeful anti-British post-colonial cinema in the 1960s and 1970s in India, Iraq, or Egypt. He's not "Flower Power" or "New Age", even though the art and the RPG writing of especially later Tekumel stuff do go through some lengths to suggest that.
  And the man doing stuff in the 2000s is not the same man that did stuff in the 1980s. Life is crazy like that.
  But fundamentally, Barker writes his fantasy like a dude who thinks that turbans, scimitars, and imams are the sign of the True Master Race - and some ideas just come with that territory: You don't close his books and say "he probably liked to smoke a blunt with his yogi in Soho". You get, though, that this is a guy who had a serious hard-on for pre-Muslim Eastern folklore and L- Ron Hubbard sci-fi - all the while lacking the trademark Tolkienian academic distance and nuance. He's not writing a "different kind of fantasy"; he's letting you into his bubble where his fantasy daydreaming is simply an extension of his life choices - with all implications.

"The Man of Gold", Barker's probably most defining or definitive work on Tekumel, is readily available via Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Man-Gold-Empire-Petal-Throne/dp/0986432318

Go, have a look for yourselves.

This Straw Man effigy that people are denying Barker is an Anti-Semite is hitting Gargantuan Size.

I have yet to see a single person in this thread openly say Barker is not an Anti-Semite. Not one. Not only are people *not* making that claim, the insistence of Barker being a NAZI NAZI NAZI! by his apparent not-fans, is the very thing cocking eyebrows. I mean, I made my stance pretty clear way upthread, Barker looks like a Muslim that is an Anti-Semite - this isn't a shocking thing in the Muslim world, you know. But if it suits you to call him a Nazi... okay?

Let's move past the indeterminate vernacular, shall we? Okay so he's an Anti-Semite/Nazi. So what? I'll ask for like the half-dozenth <-- not real word, time - SO WHAT? He was a piece of shit, however you want to define "piece of shit".

What does this mean other than we're standing around Grandpa's Corpse and his SS Uniform is hanging in the closet. And now what? We stand around looking at one another - and NO ONE is pretending we don't see the uniform.

There is at least two questions that are pertinent to this forum that could be asked, that could stir up some shit, but if this thread is going to be about discussing how forum-members are not outraged enough at the Straw Man and be insinuated to be Nazi Sympathizers or other weak bullshit like that - then I'll happily leave you all to it.

If you want to discuss the real elephant in the room - I'm down for that.

1) So is Tekumel going on the Red List?
2) And if so - why? And will this mean that other authors get "vetted" for badwrongthoughts - and are we limiting Insta-Redlisting only for Anti-Semitism? Or are other other forms of bigotry grounds for Redlisting?

If #1 is a no then most of the corollaries I care about are moot.

Quote from: tenbones on March 22, 2022, 11:42:24 AM

1) So is Tekumel going on the Red List?
2) And if so - why? And will this mean that other authors get "vetted" for badwrongthoughts - and are we limiting Insta-Redlisting only for Anti-Semitism? Or are other other forms of bigotry grounds for Redlisting?

Literally every single entry on the red list is about bigotry.

But I'm not talking about the Red List. I'm talking about the Green List and Yellow List...

#1 needs to be answered first. I don't see anyone here putting their chip on the table... despite all the protestations of the author's extracurricular activities. /looks at Grandpa's closet...

Edit: I'm asking these not *because* I want Tekumel to go onto the Redlist (or remain off it) - I'm asking because  I would assume Tekumel gets the Cthulhu clause... But apparently some people don't think Barker to Lovecraft are apples to oranges.

You literally said redlist under the same bullet point.

And I've repeatedly answered your question this thread.

Well that's because we call it "The Red List" - but it's actually three lists. I assumed you could easily infer this.

If you answered - I missed it.

I get people feel uncomfortable about it - but hey! this is what happens when people get vociferous about some principle to the point of wanting to fight about it. My response to this thread remains -

"That sucks. Tekumel rocks. GTFO."

I was meh on the Red List anyhow... now I'm even more meh.

The thread is called the Woke list or something. (Which I think is a bad name, because it shouldn't be partisan.) The red list is a specific part of it.

And page 2, if you're interested. It's my first post, and I've repeated it several times since. A number of us were very clear, from the outset, that this indisputably qualifies for the red list. Now Barker isn't a publisher so that's irrelevant, but the Tekumel Foundation is clearly benefiting and complicit, so it's an open and shut case.

The red list isn't a mandate. It doesn't compel you to do anything. It's about informing people about bad actors. You can buy and play what you want, and you could always do so. This only has an effect if you want it to, so all this fuss about redlisting really feels strange.

Looks like another purge at the TBP has started:

https://www.rpg.net/columns/advanced-designers-and-dragons/advanced-designers-and-dragons63.phtml