Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 03:52:42 PM

How the fuck does me calling Barker, who was a NAZI, a Nazi get me to call people on my own forum Nazis, unless they're being nazis? Or Sympathizers, unless they're being sympathizers?

Who the fuck needs to simp for the dude who spent decades of his life secretly writing for and assisting Nazi publications?

Your entire argument is pathetic. It's based on the idea that I'll do things because the SJWs want me to do something. It ignores that I've had an anti-Nazi position on this forum SINCE DAY 1.

So try again, dipshit: what do they accomplish by me standing up for my own principles and taking the shocking position of "nazis bad"?
Because I can definitely see what they gain from manipulating half-globed morons to say "no maybe nazis aren't bad!! not if the left likes them".

They accomplish exactly this point right here - where you play their pussy-ass Insinuation Game for the purpose of Virtue Signalling.

YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT NOW. My DM's are blowing up RIGHT NOW because of this impass and your accusations because you won't simply say - "Yeah he's an Anti-Semite. Now go fuck yourself." to the actual SJW's that want you to argue this Nazi bullshit thing.

But you're so dick-hard about calling him a Nazi then doing the SJW Transitive Evil Manuever - you're sitting there willing to call other people who see nuance in there. You call me a simp? FOR WHO? Barker is dead. I don't play Tekumel. I don't know anyone from the Tekumel Foundation. I'm merely calling out Tubesock for the intentional creation of this thread to do what's happening right now.

So again - do what you feel you need to do. I'm not a Nazi, I'm not an Anti-Semite. But I sure as fuck ain't going to stand by and not answer to those kinds of insinuations. SO YOU need to define what a Nazi is and stick to your fucking gun's, son. If I resemble that to you - then do what you gotta do.

Otherwise my suggestion you see Tubesock and this for what it is before you play the insinuation game. That's their rabbit hole. If you're down with that, then you know what you have to do. But hey, I get it, I'm part Japanese... we have a history with the Nazi's. LOL.

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 03:56:12 PM
Pundit hasn't called anyone a Nazi.

Some forum posters seem intent on portraying themselves as Nazi sympathizers. Which is a choice, I guess.

  No, they are not portraying that, unless that is what you want to see.  They would have to be pointing out how they agree with things Barker did or wrote on the matter to be that.  I think they are taking being contrarian and skeptical of reporting to the fence, but sympathizer?  No.

Yeah I think there's some nuance here for people who are familiar with M.A.R. Barker's work from way back, which is, that we probably all thought he was a bit of a crazy weirdo who let loose a lot of antisocial ideas in his writing, and that possibly his personal life was a little or a lot fucked up as well.

I never heard about this pseudonymous work before today, but without looking into it myself at all, I'd immediately believe 'well this is the guy who wrote about sex sacrificing kids to insect demon gods, of course he'd write something fetishizing Nazis.'

I don't even understand why this is eyebrow-raising, but inasmuch as this thread was started by a dumb and predictable leftist troll, I guess it's produced desirable and unexpected results.

Thank you! You said that very clearly.

Ahem.

Before people start throwing around 'You're a Nazi! And YOU'RE a Nazi!'... remember that this is one of the left's pride-and-joy tactics: slapping the 'unforgiveable' label on anyone who breaks the narrative.

Remember: they've smeared everyone from Jordan Peterson to Pundit himself as a Nazi.

Ask yourself the age old question: who profits?

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 12:50:29 PM
Ok, but in this case it means sitting in an an advisory position on a journal of Holocaust deniers. Like, we can argue about whether lots of other things are anti-Semitic, but I think that should be an easy one.

And I guess we're just going to ignore Spinachcat defending ironic Nazism, ignoring the fact that Barker's book was printed by actual neo-Nazis who profit from its sales. That's fine and not at all concerning.

Neo-Nazis are fighting Russians now who, as we all know, are literally worse then Nazis.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 21, 2022, 04:11:28 PM
Ahem.

Before people start throwing around 'You're a Nazi! And YOU'RE a Nazi!'... remember that this is one of the left's pride-and-joy tactics: slapping the 'unforgiveable' label on anyone who breaks the narrative.

Remember: they've smeared everyone from Jordan Peterson to Pundit himself as a Nazi.

Ask yourself the age old question: who profits?

   AMAZON!!!! Because they were still selling Turner Diaries till a year ago, and are still selling Mein Kampf.  All these newly minted Nazis will need something to read.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 03:03:48 PM
So your argument is that it's all a hoax? Barker did not write a pro-SS book published by the biggest Nazi publishing house of its age, and serve years on the board of the biggest holocaust-denial Nazi pseudo-academic journal for years? And the Tekumel Foundation didn't cover it up, and the post of them apologizing for covering it up is also a hoax?

Or are you arguing that none of those things matter? And if so is it because you think all those things are good things? Or is it just because you think it's more important to "own the libs" even if it means defending and protecting a literal neo-nazi and the people who profiteered off his work?

I am arguing that the timing is suspect and that we need to look into this rather than just taking it at face value. Non-woke sources and my own digging so far are pointing to very unpleasant connections. But others digging are coming up with slightly different conclusions. I may not agree with those conclusions. But I do not yet discount them.

Here is what we know so far.
Baker sat on a board overseeing some sort of supremacist groups academic papers.

Baker wrote a "what if" sci-fi book that not only follows the ideals of the above group. But was published by that group or an affiliate.

The manuscript was unearthed by someone I see no reason to suspect they are being dishonest or faked it. The pseudonym used for Serpent Walks also fits a small pattern of Baker using historic names. Which makes sense considering his scholarly background.

There are some who keep saying the book is anti-Semitic. But so far glancing through looking for any of this I am not seeing it past the usual depictions of nazi viewpoints you'd expect them to express. So far no different from any other book with nazis in them. But those other books were not published by a supremacist group. (that I know of) But this is rather dry reading so far and it is not a small book.

The foundation apparently did not know about this till a year or three ago. There are valid reasons to not bring it to light once it was known. But there are also valid reasons to air it. Personally I suspect they were stuck in an indecision loop. Especially once they came under attack by the SJWs. All this depends though on the timeline of the foundation learning of the discovery.

Had it been Fox or someone else trotting out this then we both know we'd all be questioning it to Hell and back.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 04:19:04 PM

   AMAZON!!!! Because they were still selling Turner Diaries till a year ago, and are still selling Mein Kampf.  All these newly minted Nazis will need something to read.

Bet they're still selling Book of Ebon Bindings too, in whatever godawful reprinted versions. Now that M.A.R. Barker is 'important reading' those young Nazis gonna be getting awful confused about how the fuck to go about their Nazi-dom.

And who the fuck would pay $18.95 for a Man of Gold reprint? I bet you can still get the paperback somewhere for a dollar :/

Quote from: Omega on March 21, 2022, 04:24:27 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 03:03:48 PM
So your argument is that it's all a hoax? Barker did not write a pro-SS book published by the biggest Nazi publishing house of its age, and serve years on the board of the biggest holocaust-denial Nazi pseudo-academic journal for years? And the Tekumel Foundation didn't cover it up, and the post of them apologizing for covering it up is also a hoax?

Or are you arguing that none of those things matter? And if so is it because you think all those things are good things? Or is it just because you think it's more important to "own the libs" even if it means defending and protecting a literal neo-nazi and the people who profiteered off his work?

I am arguing that the timing is suspect and that we need to look into this rather than just taking it at face value. Non-woke sources and my own digging so far are pointing to very unpleasant connections. But others digging are coming up with slightly different conclusions. I may not agree with those conclusions. But I do not yet discount them.

Here is what we know so far.
Baker sat on a board overseeing some sort of supremacist groups academic papers.

Baker wrote a "what if" sci-fi book that not only follows the ideals of the above group. But was published by that group or an affiliate.

The manuscript was unearthed by someone I see no reason to suspect they are being dishonest or faked it. The pseudonym used for Serpent Walks also fits a small pattern of Baker using historic names. Which makes sense considering his scholarly background.

There are some who keep saying the book is anti-Semitic. But so far glancing through looking for any of this I am not seeing it past the usual depictions of nazi viewpoints you'd expect them to express. So far no different from any other book with nazis in them. But those other books were not published by a supremacist group. (that I know of) But this is rather dry reading so far and it is not a small book.

The foundation apparently did not know about this till a year or three ago. There are valid reasons to not bring it to light once it was known. But there are also valid reasons to air it. Personally I suspect they were stuck in an indecision loop. Especially once they came under attack by the SJWs. All this depends though on the timeline of the foundation learning of the discovery.

Had it been Fox or someone else trotting out this then we both know we'd all be questioning it to Hell and back.

But why is any of this important, or even worth looking into? Was M.A.R. Barker a weirdo and probably a creep? Even just reading his books you know the answer is yes, and that he was probably pretty crazy, and if this is the worst anyone could do, it's not really worse than whatever the fuck he wrote openly.

I know 'writing weird shit about Nazis' is somehow supposed to be worse than 'writing weird shit about sacrificing kids to insect demons in strangely elaborate rituals written with voyeuristic detail,' but I can't really see how or why.

Breaking News: John Norman was a Nazi

Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on March 21, 2022, 03:22:23 PM
TL:DR

All I want to know is, is Empire of the Petal Throne now badwrongfun or not?

Its been that for the 90s and current iterations of the moral outrage brigade... so... yes? 

Greetings!

The correct response to this all would have been "I don't care about Barker. Tekumel is great! GTFO."

This whole thread would have died quickly.

It is interesting and laughable how fucking Tubesock's little postings here have prodded and incited such drama and tension between Pundit himself and other members here like Tenbones, Hedgehobbit, and others.

It is pretty sad that few here--perhaps especially Pundit himself--can't see that sowing division and conflict is exactly what the SJW's like to do--and exactly what they enjoy doing to a board like this. Tenbones definitely sees this. This is exactly the SJW's fucking game.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Omega on March 21, 2022, 04:24:27 PM

The foundation apparently did not know about this till a year or three ago. There are valid reasons to not bring it to light once it was known. But there are also valid reasons to air it. Personally I suspect they were stuck in an indecision loop. Especially once they came under attack by the SJWs. All this depends though on the timeline of the foundation learning of the discovery.

Had it been Fox or someone else trotting out this then we both know we'd all be questioning it to Hell and back.

If this thread were designed to be discussed in good-faith, which I do *not* believe for a moment it was, then this is my position without knowing or pretending to know any specifics.

It takes no effort from me to presume that the only intention of not airing based on the timeline was "awww fuck, now what?" Because it's my general opinion no one wants to be associated with Nazis/Al-Qaeda/Dogs in the Vinyard players etc. I'm TOTALLY open to someone putting in the time and effort to prove me wrong.

Again the stipulation to all this is the intent of the thread is to put shade on Tekumel and anything associated with it - to cause drama. We should call those attempts out for what they are. We can all have discussions about whether Barker is Al-Qaeda or Nazi or a Dogs in the Vinyard enthusiast (maybe all three)... but ultimately the real question which I asked a long time ago - to what end other than the purposes of discussion? Is the goal here punitive?

Because at that rate - there will be a lot of other things that could go on the Red List - which for me has always served for the purposes of SJW stuff. Not for whatever bad-thing an author has done. But I will further stipulate that I have no say in how that Red List is handled or to what ultimate purpose it exists beyond my own subjective use.

Which ultimately why it becomes a weapon for SJW's to use... as many pointed out long before me.

Quote from: SHARK on March 21, 2022, 04:34:32 PM
Greetings!

The correct response to this all would have been "I don't care about Barker. Tekumel is great! GTFO."

This whole thread would have died quickly.

It is interesting and laughable how fucking Tubesock's little postings here have prodded and incited such drama and tension between Pundit himself and other members here like Tenbones, Hedgehobbit, and others.

It is pretty sad that few here--perhaps especially Pundit himself--can't see that sowing division and conflict is exactly what the SJW's like to do--and exactly what they enjoy doing to a board like this. Tenbones definitely sees this. This is exactly the SJW's fucking game.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Thank you - that was the point of my demonstration.

/bows graciously.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 04:08:53 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 03:56:12 PM
Pundit hasn't called anyone a Nazi.

Some forum posters seem intent on portraying themselves as Nazi sympathizers. Which is a choice, I guess.

  No, they are not portraying that, unless that is what you want to see.  They would have to be pointing out how they agree with things Barker did or wrote on the matter to be that.  I think they are taking being contrarian and skeptical of reporting to the fence, but sympathizer?  No.

If being contrarian puts you on the side of Nazis, you lack an understanding of what two reasonable poles of opinion are.

I am still mulling over Spinachcat's assertion that the white people are the real victims here, and that in light of the revelation that Barker was a Nazi, what we really need is a new publisher for Tekumel.