Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 02:20:39 PM

Barker was clearly a very literal Nazi. No one writes for the pre-internet equivalent of Stormfront who is not a FUCKING NAZI.

Literal Nazi? As in he was part of the actual Nazi Party and fought in WWII and did all the nasty things that the Nazi did? Or does he just share some of their ideas towards specific people? So since Neo-Nazi's love Warhammer 40k - for very obvious reasons, is that a LITERAL Nazi thing? Yes, let's continue to play that game of conflation ad absurdum. It will not end well for you.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 02:20:39 PMAnd it is beyond pathetic to see all you hysterics freaking out that Barker being a Nazi somehow "wins points for the left" and worrying that if you don't try to defend Barker's masturbatory SS-Fanfiction as something other than what it clearly is.

I'm not hysteric. I'm laughing at the stupidity of this whole thread. You are dancing to their tune - your so-called "Ideological Enemies" - you know the Reverse Nazi's, but using your own magical beliefs (No Barker wasn't to my knowledge OR YOURS an actual Card-Carrying Nazi. That he was an anti-Semite is not really debatable - but has other implications about YOU and your positions on "things" that is the entire point of why this thread was created. And you're doing your "ideological enemies" job for them, like a complete fool.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 02:20:39 PMWhy the fuck do you give a shit what the Left's "motives" are in all of this, when it is very clear the motives don't change the fucking facts? Are you going to change your principles and start denying facts to "own the libs"? Because that's actually what plays right into their hands.

What facts have I denied? That Barker was an anti-Semite? Nope. But since you're playing stupid on this - the reason why I care is because you're doing what THEY DO. You're accepting their narratives about YOU. You're larping being some kind of 1st Amendement Activist and pretending that while facts are facts, you're conflating the purpose of the use of those facts to mean things that matter - when they don't. Following that bait is exactly the problem and you're doing it.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 02:20:39 PMAs for me, I don't give a twopenny fuck what the left thinks; I'm worried about what my grandfather would think. The left will call me a nazi no matter what. The difference is I only go after REAL nazis while they end up providing cover to people who want to defend Nazis by claiming that "when they attack (Obvious Real Nazi) the left are just telling their usual lies like they did about (person who's obviously not a nazi)".

Well bully for you. I'm sure you're really threatened by all the ACTUAL GERMAN NAZI's in Uruguay that are coming to gas you. You want to virtue signal for your grandfather's efforts? What do you want? Some kind of medal? You're doing the same shit they are. Except you're conflating the importance of "REAL NAZI'S" with anyone that is Anti-Semite. That's what they do too. They call people Nazi's to justify their bad behavior - when the point of it is to cause people LIKE YOU to rise up in self-righteous bullshit indignation to attack their own community.

This is how THEY GOT HERE. You're playing their game.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 02:20:39 PMFuck all of you who are more scared of "liberal tactics" than about condemning a turner-diary level Nazi writer.

No, fuck you that you'll accept their standards to lower your own on this forum under the pretense that you would even entertain ANYONE here is a Nazi sympathizer in order to play the Virtue Signal game. You have some fucking nerve. How many other people on this forum have Hero-Stories of their forebears to bring to this thread, you fucking twat? I could regale you on my own - survivors of the Battle of the Bulge, CMH holders, four-fucking generations of Marines that have bled and died for causes, that you wanna co-opt for a fucking discussion about TTRPG's and Nazis?

And that's just me - I can guarantee others here can do the same. We could have an entire sub-forum on it. And you presume to lecture us about your virtue on it in this thread? Dude you really need to step back and smell the bullshit coming from your posts. You get NOTHING for being Anti-NAZI. NOTHING.

So fucking brave.

Edit: And lets be REAL CLEAR HERE - you're already calling them "Actual Nazi's" and YOU DON'T KNOW DICK if it's true and neither do WE. And meanwhile you're going to attack us? Yeah - smooth fucking move, asshole.

I am absolutely certain the Pundit is not a Nazi nor a Holocaust denier.
I may disagree with 75% of his politics and his dreadful manners, but he's no Nazi.
He even writes pretty good RPGs.

In other news being an anti-Semite doesn't make you a Nazi.
Being a fascist doesn't make you an anti-Semite.
Being a fascist doesn't make you a Nazi.
However I think you can be a Nazi without a membership card of the NSDAP, but for careful reasons let's go with neo-Nazi.

It really really looks 95% certain that Barker was an anti-Semitic fascist neo-Nazi.

He also created a great fantasy world and inspired a lot of role-players.

Let's now with out what that means to our elf games.

Quote from: Omega on March 21, 2022, 01:00:36 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 20, 2022, 01:55:01 PM
THEY DID DO SOMETHING WRONG. They distorted history while protecting a Nazi so that they could keep on making money!

Except we do not know that is what happened.

The Tekumel foundation LITERALLY ADMITS that this is exactly what they did.  If that's not enough, that the people accused are admitting it, I'm pretty sure you've just decided that no proof ever would be enough. You could see a literal taping of Barker saying "yeah I wrote it, and I'd write it again" and you'd be saying "that might be a deepfake/how do we know that's the REAL barker and not a lookalike?" etc.

And???

So......??

By the transitive powers of EVIL they must also be Anti-Semitic?

Edit: If so, how are Lovecraft fans supposed to enjoy his work when he also had Anti-Semitic thoughts? And since you dug this fucking stupid hole of idiocy for yourself - do you only draw the line at Anti-Semitism? But other forms of racism are not "as bad"? Go on... we're still playing this stupid game.

 I wonder why it is called anti-semitism, when it means anti Jewish?  Arabs are Semitic as well, but NO ONE ever thinks anti-semitism is about hating Arabs, and if many Arabs are accused of Antisemitism all the time...doesn't it get a little confusing?  Why not just say racism?

Quote from: Omega on March 21, 2022, 01:37:30 PM

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 01:18:23 PM
A more salient and important question is:

To what end does this rabbit hole exist?

Seriously - pretend the worst case scenario: The Tekumel Foundation knew everything from the start and hid it.

Well we know that one reason the rabbit hole exists is because the cult is desperate to destroy Tekumel.

So your argument is that it's all a hoax? Barker did not write a pro-SS book published by the biggest Nazi publishing house of its age, and serve years on the board of the biggest holocaust-denial Nazi pseudo-academic journal for years? And the Tekumel Foundation didn't cover it up, and the post of them apologizing for covering it up is also a hoax?

Or are you arguing that none of those things matter? And if so is it because you think all those things are good things? Or is it just because you think it's more important to "own the libs" even if it means defending and protecting a literal neo-nazi and the people who profiteered off his work?

  Speaking of Nazi publishing houses, didnt Amazon still carry the Turner diaries up until a little over a year ago?  They also still carry Mein Kampf.  Is it time to put all of Amazon on the red list?

Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 21, 2022, 02:17:12 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 02:11:37 PM
I doubt the Tekumel Foundation makes much money. But people like clout. Sometimes they do bad things to hang onto it. Whether you did it for $1 million or just to be the cool Tekumel guys, there is moral weight to the decision.

There is only "moral weight" if you feel that people are under a moral obligation to immediately inform the internet if they ever find out that someone they know has a wrong thought. I'd rather not live in a world where that is the standard.

Who were they supposed to inform anyway? Should they have put a warning on their webpage? Taken an ad in the New York Times? Notified the RPG Committee? Deleted their account on DriveThruRPG? The fact is that nothing they could have done would have ever been enough.

The problem with all of this is that if Barker had turned out to be a supporter of Al Qaeda instead of a Nazi, you'd be calling for blood. You're just another collectivist, and you are willing to give covering fire to the SS if it helps "your side".  Fuck that.

Yes, it's pretty specific isn't it?

It makes poor POC's like me feel left out in the rain. Awwwwwww...

Because apparently no one else is allowed to have trademark atrocities of equal stature. Once again... Asians, the Invisible People. Hazards of all being ninja with excellent math-skills to calculate Stealth checks, and small penises to not distract us from the task at hand.

Does this make me Anti-Semitic for pointing it out? What are the current SJW rules in the Identity Politics Index. I know Asians stock prices have fallen to the floor, like non-SJW white people.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 03:08:30 PM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 21, 2022, 02:17:12 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 02:11:37 PM
I doubt the Tekumel Foundation makes much money. But people like clout. Sometimes they do bad things to hang onto it. Whether you did it for $1 million or just to be the cool Tekumel guys, there is moral weight to the decision.

There is only "moral weight" if you feel that people are under a moral obligation to immediately inform the internet if they ever find out that someone they know has a wrong thought. I'd rather not live in a world where that is the standard.

Who were they supposed to inform anyway? Should they have put a warning on their webpage? Taken an ad in the New York Times? Notified the RPG Committee? Deleted their account on DriveThruRPG? The fact is that nothing they could have done would have ever been enough.

The problem with all of this is that if Barker had turned out to be a supporter of Al Qaeda instead of a Nazi, you'd be calling for blood. You're just another collectivist, and you are willing to give covering fire to the SS if it helps "your side".  Fuck that.

  Well...I would be willing to bet 100 bucks he did support Al Qaeda.  Everything about what we have seen of his personal life points strongly in that direction, he just did not bother writing a book where they took over the world with their nazi ray guns or what not.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 02:41:27 PM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 21, 2022, 12:14:13 PMWatching Pundit condemn "real Nazis" is hilarious. His lack of self awareness is staggering.

What the fuck are you actually suggesting? Are you trying to imply Barker isn't a Nazi? Or that SJWs are being honest when they say I am one?

Don't pussyfoot around like a fucking coward, say what you think!

The SJWs are not lying, they believe that you are a literal Nazi. Yet you throw around the exact same accusation and then expect everyone to believe you but not believe them.

And I'm not saying that Barker wasn't a Nazi, I'm just saying that you shouldn't be so quick and eager to make that accusation considering how many have done the same thing to you.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 02:50:20 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 21, 2022, 01:00:36 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 20, 2022, 01:55:01 PM
THEY DID DO SOMETHING WRONG. They distorted history while protecting a Nazi so that they could keep on making money!

Except we do not know that is what happened.

The Tekumel foundation LITERALLY ADMITS that this is exactly what they did.  If that's not enough, that the people accused are admitting it, I'm pretty sure you've just decided that no proof ever would be enough. You could see a literal taping of Barker saying "yeah I wrote it, and I'd write it again" and you'd be saying "that might be a deepfake/how do we know that's the REAL barker and not a lookalike?" etc.

Reading their statement. Then glancing at the book in question... This all reads like they took someones word on it rather than looking for themselves.

But.

Assuming they did check themselves then current statements seems to indicate that they did not know until relatively recently. Assuming the timeline is that the manuscript was discovered some years ago. But the foundation was not informed until a year or two ago?

Re-read what I have said so far.

I am not saying Baker did not do these things. I am saying that we need to investigate ourselves rather than just blindly believe one source and some connections that could be read multiple ways.

Currently I believe everything is pointing to Barker being both up to something seriously wrong. But I am also seeing falsehoods being tossed around which starts to make me doubt this. So I am doing some digging of my own.

In fact it is the things that have been done to you that inspire me to stop and question any accusations leveled at anyone.

Unfortunately in this case the pieces are pointing to Baker being guilty.

TL:DR

All I want to know is, is Empire of the Petal Throne now badwrongfun or not?

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 02:44:41 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 02:20:39 PMAs for me, I don't give a twopenny fuck what the left thinks; I'm worried about what my grandfather would think. The left will call me a nazi no matter what. The difference is I only go after REAL nazis while they end up providing cover to people who want to defend Nazis by claiming that "when they attack (Obvious Real Nazi) the left are just telling their usual lies like they did about (person who's obviously not a nazi)".

Well bully for you. I'm sure you're really threatened by all the ACTUAL GERMAN NAZI's in Uruguay that are coming to gas you. You want to virtue signal for your grandfather's efforts? What do you want? Some kind of medal? You're doing the same shit they are. Except you're conflating the importance of "REAL NAZI'S" with anyone that is Anti-Semite. That's what they do too. They call people Nazi's to justify their bad behavior - when the point of it is to cause people LIKE YOU to rise up in self-righteous bullshit indignation to attack their own community.

This is how THEY GOT HERE. You're playing their game.

Let's start by saying I would drink a toast to every anti-semite being shot in the face. But you saying "he's an anti-semite" is retarded; you're trying to pretend as if Barker didn't want Jews in his country club or thought there were too many Jews in hollywood, when in fact he wrote a book about exterminating the Jewish people. He wasn't JUST an "anti-semite". He was a Nazi.

Any community that tolerates people who write fanfic novels about how great and mighty and large-dicked the heroic geniuses of the SS were is NOT "my own community". FUCK ANYONE who supports that, or in fact who supports any kind of racial collectivism.

YOU are the one playing any game the left might be making here. They desperately want to be able to say 'see? the OSR is full of nazis and the proof is how they're defending Barker'.  That's not the reason to condemn Barker though, the reason is because HE WAS A FUCKING NAZI.

Quote

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 02:20:39 PMFuck all of you who are more scared of "liberal tactics" than about condemning a turner-diary level Nazi writer.

No, fuck you that you'll accept their standards to lower your own on this forum under the pretense that you would even entertain ANYONE here is a Nazi sympathizer in order to play the Virtue Signal game.

As you know, I ban anyone who is an open Nazi sympathizer here. What made you think I would now start standing up for the memory of a dead nazi, or for a bunch of profiteering fucks who would rather keep being the gatekeepers of the tekumel community (and whatever pittance of profit that represents) to the point of covering up said Nazism?

I did not believe, and still do not believe, that almost anyone in the OSR is a real neo-nazi. But I have to say that the vigorous desperation some people have shown on this thread to try to PROTECT A NAZI is fucking shocking. Anyone who is doing so is either a fellow Nazi using "but there's some leftists who are condemning this so we should be for it" as cover, or a shit-headed moron collectivist who is exactly the type of cunt that the first guy benefits from.


So which one are you: Nazi, or moronic cunt?

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 02:51:53 PM
And???

So......??

By the transitive powers of EVIL they must also be Anti-Semitic?

No. They're profiteers.


Now, are you a Nazi, or a moronic cunt?