Quote from: pawsplay on March 20, 2022, 07:32:03 PM
Hitler remarked he would have preferred the Muslims had won the Battle of Tours (732).  He said he thought Islam would have been preferable for the "German character," calling Christianity "flabby." (link for context)
Phillip Barker changed his name to Muhammad Abd-al-Rahman Barker when he converted to Islam.
The Muslim leader defeated at the Battle of Tours was Muhammad Abdul Rahman Al-Ghafiqi.
I think it's likely MAR Barker renamed himself after a statement by Hitler to indicate his agreement.

Good lord that is a fucked up connection.
And it mirrors his pseudonym for Serpent Walks which is another historical ref.
How deep does the rabbit hole go...

A more salient and important question is:

To what end does this rabbit hole exist?

Seriously - pretend the worst case scenario: The Tekumel Foundation knew everything from the start and hid it.

Then what? You put them on the Red List? What else? Or is the suggestion that anyone that has arbitrary "bad thoughts" also go on the bad list? Being an anti-ANYTHING is then grounds for it - unless you're making the argument that some categories of people are *better* than others.

SJW's like Tubesock get you trapped in this game because they deny what they're really saying: that groups of people are WORSE. And mostly it's white people they're talking about, but it has nothing to do with race at all. It's to get you unmoored from their real goal.

This is why I scoff at Pundit trying to dismiss my Lovecraft remark. Even back in his day he was an outier in his general opinion of Semites and non-whites (in varying degrees) but that transitive sin seems to not measure up to not printing his books, playing games about his works, etc. The same standard should apply for Tekumel.

The goal of this thread is to drive that idea into people's heads that they are in fact problematic. My question is WHY? Tubesock tells you straight out - you *might* be a Holocaust Denier if you don't agree with his claim about them. If you accept that framing, welcome to the Rabbit Hole.

I mean... it's clear Tubesock himself is a racist. Isn't it? He literally belittled me as a small Asian and implied I had a small dick. I know Orientalism when I see it, because I'm Oriental and I played Oriental Adventures, and was raised there.

All I'm gonna say is that if you find yourself on the same side of an argument as Tubesnake?

Do a quick review. I'm not saying you MUST rethink your position, but it might not hurt to run a diagnostic.

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 01:18:23 PM
A more salient and important question is:

To what end does this rabbit hole exist?

Seriously - pretend the worst case scenario: The Tekumel Foundation knew everything from the start and hid it.

Then what? You put them on the Red List? What else? Or is the suggestion that anyone that has arbitrary "bad thoughts" also go on the bad list? Being an anti-ANYTHING is then grounds for it - unless you're making the argument that some categories of people are *better* than others.

SJW's like Tubesock get you trapped in this game because they deny what they're really saying: that groups of people are WORSE. And mostly it's white people they're talking about, but it has nothing to do with race at all. It's to get you unmoored from their real goal.

This is why I scoff at Pundit trying to dismiss my Lovecraft remark. Even back in his day he was an outier in his general opinion of Semites and non-whites (in varying degrees) but that transitive sin seems to not measure up to not printing his books, playing games about his works, etc. The same standard should apply for Tekumel.

The goal of this thread is to drive that idea into people's heads that they are in fact problematic. My question is WHY? Tubesock tells you straight out - you *might* be a Holocaust Denier if you don't agree with his claim about them. If you accept that framing, welcome to the Rabbit Hole.

I mean... it's clear Tubesock himself is a racist. Isn't it? He literally belittled me as a small Asian and implied I had a small dick. I know Orientalism when I see it, because I'm Oriental and I played Oriental Adventures, and was raised there.

  Raised in Kara-tur?  Impressive.  We need to ban amazon for distributing mein kampf as well.

Goddamn right. And as further proof of my non-racism, I acknowledge the God of Kara-tur is black - Mikeru Pondusmisu!

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 12:50:29 PM
Ok, but in this case it means sitting in an an advisory position on a journal of Holocaust deniers. Like, we can argue about whether lots of other things are anti-Semitic, but I think that should be an easy one.

And I guess we're just going to ignore Spinachcat defending ironic Nazism, ignoring the fact that Barker's book was printed by actual neo-Nazis who profit from its sales. That's fine and not at all concerning.

Barker's publisher
The organization

That is one of the hard points in this mess.

But.

If Barker was pulling an infiltration/subversion gig. Then would make sense. Its not the first time someones done this. But that fits only if Serpent Walks presents the SS cell in a less than admirable light. The little I have seen so far reads like any other "what if" book.

I doubt that was the case considering some of the other connections. But instead of just blindly taking the woke mobs word. I am investigating. Moreso because the timing of all this is suspect.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 21, 2022, 01:20:01 PM
All I'm gonna say is that if you find yourself on the same side of an argument as Tubesnake?

Do a quick review. I'm not saying you MUST rethink your position, but it might not hurt to run a diagnostic.

My side of the argument is that anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial are objectively bad things

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 01:18:23 PM
A more salient and important question is:

To what end does this rabbit hole exist?

Your Bad Wrong Thought will be exposed if you dabble in things that are Not Approved!   

Those in "My Group" will be proven superior to the "Impure". Those will be identified and labeled so their "Impure" thinking cannot taint "My Group". 

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 01:31:16 PM

My side of the argument is that anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial are objectively bad things

That is LITERALLY not what you said. You said people that might not agree with your point might be, among other things, Holocaust Deniers. This is your game of insinuation.

You DID say I have reading comprehension problems. And since I'm pretty certain I don't, and I do understand the real subtext of your insinuations - I merely point it back to you, that your claims about me being "little" and "lacking reading comprehension" might be due to my being Asian. Which holds about as much water mechanically as your own claims. And sounds, by your own standards, racist.

Now tell me how racist you exactly are? Or prove to me you're not.

Edit: I will accept an apology given in earnest as long as we're playing The Game(tm). Otherwise I'll hold you to your own standard and call you a Racist.

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 01:18:23 PM
A more salient and important question is:

To what end does this rabbit hole exist?

Seriously - pretend the worst case scenario: The Tekumel Foundation knew everything from the start and hid it.

Well we know that one reason the rabbit hole exists is because the cult is desperate to destroy Tekumel.

If they were not involved I'd be more inclined to believe all this. But they are. And we know they lie then lie about the lies and so on.

But they have Pundit dancing to their tune. Which is likely the end to which the rabbit hole really exists.

And that is why I'm here. I'm the motherfucker with the red flares in his hands telling Pundit and everyone else to listen to Akbar.

Quote from: Omega on March 21, 2022, 01:28:42 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 12:50:29 PM
Ok, but in this case it means sitting in an an advisory position on a journal of Holocaust deniers. Like, we can argue about whether lots of other things are anti-Semitic, but I think that should be an easy one.

And I guess we're just going to ignore Spinachcat defending ironic Nazism, ignoring the fact that Barker's book was printed by actual neo-Nazis who profit from its sales. That's fine and not at all concerning.

Barker's publisher
The organization

That is one of the hard points in this mess.

But.

If Barker was pulling an infiltration/subversion gig. Then would make sense. Its not the first time someones done this. But that fits only if Serpent Walks presents the SS cell in a less than admirable light. The little I have seen so far reads like any other "what if" book.

I doubt that was the case considering some of the other connections. But instead of just blindly taking the woke mobs word. I am investigating. Moreso because the timing of all this is suspect.

And so fucking what? I wouldn't take a single dime from a Nazi publisher. Someone willing to write a Nazi book and make money for Nazis is a bad person even if they did it for the lulz. News flash, a lot of Hitler's actual government didn't take all their horseshit all that seriously. Hitler made Japanese into Honorary Aryans and did the same for some of his Jewish allies and friends, and talked about God and Christianity but despised it, and so on and so forth. And Barker knew all that about Hitler and decided he was of a like mind. Hitler was a political firebrand and a personal bully, Barker was a detached academic, but Barker was all like, "Setting much of the specifics aside, you had to admit Hitler had a point" but apparently that is not a bridge too far for some people on this forum. Demagoguery and insincerity doesn't make Nazi less bad, it makes it worse, it's actually fundamental to how Nazism under Hitler functioned.

So which is worse - identifying with tribalism like a Nazi?

Or BEING an actual Nazi?

Because the former is LEGION.

The latter doesn't exist.

Example: I am a member of the PC Master Race. Fuck all you console plebs.

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 01:35:32 PM
That is LITERALLY not what you said. You said people that might not agree with your point might be, among other things, Holocaust Deniers. This is your game of insinuation.

That is what he implied when I simply pointed out he went from not knowing much about Barker and Tekumel to being sad about the fall of a legend, and owning a book or two, around five pages later.

But the mask always slips. And now I know he was just projecting his own anti-Asian beliefs and core values on me. I hope he gets help.

Quote from: pawsplay on March 21, 2022, 01:40:42 PM
And so fucking what? I wouldn't take a single dime from a Nazi publisher. Someone willing to write a Nazi book and make money for Nazis is a bad person even if they did it for the lulz.

Stop. And Re-read whats been said on this.

That being that there is a remote possibility that Barker was involved to spy on the enemy as it was. Or as part of some plan to actually subvert them somehow?

Seems unlikely. But it is possible. Hence why we need to investigate.