Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 06:17:06 AM
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It in no way "undermines my position" to condemn real Nazis. It does undermine theirs. And apparently yours, for some reason...

/Sigh okay let's play.

SO how much of a problem IS IT, Pundit? You tell me. This is what Tubesock wants you to answer. So since you want to deflect to me like *I* am the problem let's get to the point of your failure to see you're operating from their framework.

TELL US HOW MUCH OF A PROBLEM IS IT?

Then when you're done telling us how much the Tekumel Foundation is culpable of the thoughts of Barker in other works of fiction - what should be done about it?

Unless you think you're scoring points on me (you're not, I'm pointing out how you are now virtue signaling out of fear of appearing of being a "Nazi sympathizer" to people that don't give a shit, because Barker is no more a Nazi than SJW's are Anti-Nazis). They want YOU to give a shit. And since you do - you're playing their game.

But by all means, lecture me (and the rest of us) how much of an anti-Nazi you are. Then I'm sure he'll find some other hoop for you to jump through. And then shall we stop talking about Tekumel here? Shall we ban Chirine since he played with Barker? etc. etc.

IF NOT - then why are you pontificating at me about it? I don't give a shit about his framing. YOU DO.

(unless you hate Asians... LOLOLOL)

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 10:59:25 AM

Imagine being so desperate to excuse anti-Semitism that you look for a reason - any reason - why someone would sit on the board of a Holocaust-denying publication. Other than, y'know, being a Holocaust denier.

I haven't seen cope of this magnitude since Trump lost the election.

Imagine being so desperate to try and label people as being Holocaust deniers that you had to prey upon their fears of being labeled holocaust -deniers by using the bad fiction of a dead game-author to transfer those bad sentiments to their players, by posting one's false horror at those sentiments on a forum for unspoken agendas.

Imagine the non-surprise at people falling for it.

The only person I've labelled a Holocaust denier is Barker. Nice try, though.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 11:17:39 AM
The only person I've labelled a Holocaust denier is Barker. Nice try, though.

Well who are the "you" in your own quote?

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 11:17:39 AMyou look for a reason - any reason - why someone would sit on the board of a Holocaust-denying publication. Other than, y'know, being a Holocaust denier.

I haven't seen cope of this magnitude since Trump lost the election.

I don't have to try. You have an obvious agenda of trying to label people "Holocaust deniers" from what presumption? That they don't "care enough" as you pretend to about Barker's fiction?

No - you are a disingenuous jackass. Barker is no more a Nazi for being Anti-Semitic, than you're are. Let's play that game with you - why not tell us that all Middle-Eastern people are Nazi's for being Muslim? No one should probably deny Barker is anti-Semitic - but then how anti-Semitic are you? Prove it to *me*.

Because you sound Anti-Asian for speaking to me in those tones. My Truth(tm) is that it appears you're trying to Orientalize me.

Excusing Holocaust denial doesn't necessarily make somebody one (though they might be, but that would not be the only possible reason for excusing such behavior). Sorry for your lack of reading comprehension. I have not called anyone a Holocaust denier here except for Barker. If I thought anyone else in this thread was denying the Holocaust, I would plainly say so.

Not all Muslims are anti-Semites, this shouldn't even need saying lol.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 10:36:48 AM
I do not see how it can not just boil down to it goes on the red list.

Same here. The defenses being mounted in the thread seem to be exactly the same as SJ types defending Woke games. Barker would be red if he was still around, and the Tekumel Foundation is red for covering it up and profiting from it. Open and shut.

That doesn't mean you can't still like his other stuff, nor does it erase his contributions to the hobby. But it does add a stain.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 11:28:46 AM
Excusing Holocaust denial doesn't necessarily make somebody one. Sorry for your lack of reading comprehension. I have not called anyone a Holocaust denier here except for Barker. If I thought anyone else in this thread was denying the Holocaust, I would plainly say so.

Then you're denying your own statement? Who is the YOU? This sounds like something a racist would say to try to gaslight poor POC's and white people that don't' understand their own privilege's. Are you implying Asians can't understand English?

That's something exactly that a white-supremacist would say. It's problematic.

I don't think the TF is making and real profits off their publications. I noticed that they are not even the publisher according to Drivethru (I recall that they were in the past). Been listed since 2005 and a platinum bestseller does not seem to be huge sales and money.

The main impetus for keeping the game going has been from people that played in the original campaigns and knew the professor. Having met several of them over the years, it seems to be based on nostalgia and memories of friendship from those times.

The only thing I can see being threatened is a perception of self-importance. The same I have seen from others who participated in original games from the original authors. For many people, especially in our hobby, this is something they really would cling to. MAR Barker's original letters and such have been looked through and published. I find it a real leap to go to them having Neo-Nazi letters and just burying them. I certainly find the "we only had 2.5 years" claim to be funny, but just look at the publishing track record of the TF. Everything takes forever and they even use the older style and horrible typesetting to be as pure as possible. Super easy to assume in good faith that this time lag is normal for the glacial pace they move at.

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 11:31:11 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 11:28:46 AM
Excusing Holocaust denial doesn't necessarily make somebody one. Sorry for your lack of reading comprehension. I have not called anyone a Holocaust denier here except for Barker. If I thought anyone else in this thread was denying the Holocaust, I would plainly say so.

So you're then you're denying your own statement? Who is the YOU? This sounds like something a racist would say to try to gaslight poor POC's and white people that don't' understand their own privilege's. Are you implying Asians can't understand English?

That's something exactly that a white-supremacist would say. It's problematic.

You're really reaching here. My statement said someone was desperate to excuse Holocaust denial, not that they were a Holocaust denier. It's quite clear, despite your frenzied attempts to obfuscate it by flooding the zone with shit.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 11:33:05 AM
You're really reaching here. My statement said someone was desperate to excuse Holocaust denial, not that they were a Holocaust denier. It's quite clear, despite your frenzied attempts to obfuscate it by flooding the zone with shit.

That's a blanket statement of EVERYONE that doesn't agree with your claim. That could be everyone here, no? And you said I was too stupid to understand what you were saying, now you're backtracking on trying to explain what you *really* meant - so clearly my understanding of what you were saying has some merit?

You are *def-facto* calling people that don't agree with you - Holocaust Deniers.

It would appear that since you think I'm stupid, by the same logic you apply to Barker's writing and anything he's written, those that don't agree with you, being Holocaust deniers, you at minimum think Asians are stupid (since you're clearly backtracking) And Muslims must be Anti-Semitic because they practice the same religion that practiced predominately by large swath of anti-Semites, and transitive properties of evil which you're ascribing, goes both ways. It might be you that is the racist bigot you're pretending everyone else is?

Is that possible?

As for my opinion on the book that came to light, I am not going to burn my existing purchases, but I certainly am not going to make more or participate in games.

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 11:35:40 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 11:33:05 AM
You're really reaching here. My statement said someone was desperate to excuse Holocaust denial, not that they were a Holocaust denier. It's quite clear, despite your frenzied attempts to obfuscate it by flooding the zone with shit.

That's a blanket statement of EVERYONE that doesn't agree with your claim. That could be everyone here, no? And you said I was too stupid to understand what you were saying, now you're backtracking on trying to explain what you *really* meant - so clearly my understanding of what you were saying has some merit?

You are *def-facto* calling people that don't agree with you - Holocaust Deniers.

No matter how desperately you type this, that doesn't make it true. Sorry, lil' fella. Also, my original statement was quite clearly aimed at CRKreuger. Maybe don't post until AFTER you've had your morning coffee?

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 11:37:00 AM

No matter how desperately you type this, that doesn't make it true. Sorry, lil' fella. Also, my original statement was quite clearly aimed at CRKreuger. Maybe don't post until AFTER you've had your morning coffee?

Oh, so CRKreugur might be the Holocaust Denier? Then I wasn't wrong - you *weren't* talking about Barker ONLY.

Where is my apology then?

Which is it? You keep flip-flopping. Which makes you more suspect as the White Supremacist. Because that's exactly what a White Supremacist would do.

Quote from: tenbones on March 21, 2022, 11:42:58 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 11:37:00 AM

No matter how desperately you type this, that doesn't make it true. Sorry, lil' fella. Also, my original statement was quite clearly aimed at CRKreuger. Maybe don't post until AFTER you've had your morning coffee?

Oh, so CRKreugur might be the Holocaust Denier? Then I wasn't wrong - you *weren't* talking about Barker ONLY.

Where is my apology then?

Up your ass, next to your head, apparently. Because, for the third or fourth time, I never said CRKrueger was a Holocaust denier, only that he was desperate to excuse Barker's Holocaust denial.

  Interesting side note regarding authors and bad takes.  Mein Kampf is still sold in the USA, and for years Houghton Mifflin brought in lots of money in sales (they say the profits were all donated to charity...but I didnt check the books, so who knows).  So should they be boycotted?  Should the current version of the book (I think published through createspace) have its publisher boycotted?