Quote from: Omega on March 21, 2022, 06:40:07 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 05:56:52 PM
  He never implied the FBI or outside influence, I imagine, like you he probably had some of the dude's work in his possession and was looking for some reason a guy with that outward image would do such a thing.    Obviously it was not the FBI, because they did not try to get him to buy or sell an illegal firearm to anyone.  Or kidnap people.  Or plan bombings.

I thought of the infiltration/subversion angle because I've seen it before. Sometimes for altruistic reasons. More often for very not good reasons.

I do not think it likely. But it was worth considering as the data came in and because this whole revelation of his supremacist background is at odds with what I knew of Barker and his writings up to that point.

  I took your suggestion to mean he was trying some sort of "look under the rug" on his own, sort of like the lady who wrote the book nickled and dimed, walk with the proles and see what was going on.  So oops on me I guess, though I did get from that you were casting out any sort of explanation for what looked to be inexplicable behavior (well other than what it was anyway).

Quote from: yancy on March 21, 2022, 05:59:47 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 21, 2022, 05:06:23 PM
So if he was writing about sacrificing kids to demons in lurid grotesque details. I missed it?

I haven't read the actual role-playing games in many years, but I don't recall there being much of that there at all. There's hints of weirdness in the DAW paperbacks, but the most concentrated distillation of that sort of shit is in Book of Ebon Bindings, which is all descriptions of demon worship and rituals.

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 06:01:51 PM

  I am guessing these descriptions were lurid and shocking (as in make you think a full on oddjob must have cooked it up)?

One of my players had a copy of Ebon Bindings. If recall correctly the very first of the gods mentioned. Orogob? That one was mildly lurid. But tame in comparison to whats gone before or after. Gereshmal? Has the sacrifice of a baby. A bit gruesome. Here and there the term youth is used. But the ages seem to range from just into adulthood to just into puberty and so on. Overall the book does not go into as much detail on the sacrifices other than a few spots of note on the method of death required. Though these are not as prevalent as one would expect.

YMMV of course but having read Lovecraft, Ashton, Howard, Bloch and others Barkers stuff is mild overall and would fit right in.

The one thing I find of particular interest is just how hard it is to summon these beings. That and how consistent and in character tone the writing maintains overall. No easy task. I've used that technique myself in my own books.

Greetings!

Very real Nazis being *crushed* by the Red Army, marching victoriously on Berlin.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 06:45:21 PM
  I took your suggestion to mean he was trying some sort of "look under the rug" on his own, sort of like the lady who wrote the book nickled and dimed, walk with the proles and see what was going on.  So oops on me I guess, though I did get from that you were casting out any sort of explanation for what looked to be inexplicable behavior (well other than what it was anyway).

That is an angle I actually had not considered. Like researching for a book. But considering everything else that just does not seem likely either. Unless he did the research and after used the group to publish as some sort of irony or in-joke. Or the bitter irony that this was the only people he could find to publish the book. Maybe if he was desperate for cash?

Much like the infiltration angle. Not likely.

Quote from: Omega on March 21, 2022, 07:51:48 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 06:45:21 PM
  I took your suggestion to mean he was trying some sort of "look under the rug" on his own, sort of like the lady who wrote the book nickled and dimed, walk with the proles and see what was going on.  So oops on me I guess, though I did get from that you were casting out any sort of explanation for what looked to be inexplicable behavior (well other than what it was anyway).

That is an angle I actually had not considered. Like researching for a book. But considering everything else that just does not seem likely either. Unless he did the research and after used the group to publish as some sort of irony or in-joke. Or the bitter irony that this was the only people he could find to publish the book. Maybe if he was desperate for cash?

Much like the infiltration angle. Not likely.

  Oh, I think the guy was just a Nazi.  But all I know about him is the bit I read about him and the stuff around this controversy.  I am sure if I had used his stuff and liked it for years, I might look  for reasons he did what he did.  The lady who wrote nickeled and Dimed was not exactly presenting the entire story any way, and I have a suspicion her point of view was the same one she started with and just "went under cover" to give her predetermined opinion more validity. 

  He was still a sitting professor wasn't he?  I have doubts a full time professor needed the cash.  But that would be quite the angle, sort of like the famous author writing porn and gay porn to pay the bills between book deals (made the mistake of going down a Joe Rogan Rabbit hole around the Utah housewife who made a mint in her spare time writing big foot porn), but I just can not see anyone writing a nazi good guys novel without having lots of the same ideas they had.

Jesus Christ is this train wreck still going on? He's dead, no one publishing his work is giving that money to your local group of neo-nazi dip shits. Oh some people may have sat on this information for a while? And? Who's surprised. I can think of far worse things.

Everyone that has ever produced any interesting work has been some sort of bastard or another. Sky blue, water wet, news at 10.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 21, 2022, 05:57:27 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on March 21, 2022, 05:22:15 PMI 100% agree with Pundit here, and I NEVER agree with him. Y'all lookin like straight clowns.

Throughout this thread, Pundit has been strawmanning people's arguments, refusing to admit anyone might have a point, and engaging in petty name calling and accusations of transitive Nazi-ism.

Congratulations, the one time you agree with Pundit is when he's been a complete ass.

Its another Tuesday at therpgsite

Quote from: oggsmash on March 21, 2022, 08:11:40 PMbut I just can not see anyone writing a nazi good guys novel without having lots of the same ideas they had.

Thought experiments are the most often ones. What if the south won the Civil War? What if Japan and Germany defeated the US, What if Rome never fell. They pop up quite often in comics too for alternate history excursions. They have the same appeal as extrapolating say what if War of the Worlds happened and the world that would develop after. Heraclea is one I read in school, also by a famous scholar. Presenting that all the deeds that became the legends of Hercules were really done by a girl.

In Barkers book so far I am not sure if they are presented as the good guys yet. The initial presentation has no hints of it. The main characters are just mercenaries. But by the end. Yes. They win. Or more aptly are well on the way to that. The characters outlook on Jews is not what was expecting. At the end its more like disgust or dissapointment that the Jews did not live up to their own ideals and ended up treating Palestine as badly as Germany did them.  Least that is what Im seeing from an exerp of the last chapter. Yet they seem ok with working with Jewish mercs long as they dont turn on them. Which they do apparently.

I may dig more to see what else is said in it. Also the prose reads like something written in the 60s or 70s. Not 1991... Maybe that was deliberate. Or maybe just Barkers style.

Im not sure there is much pint in digging any further though. Serpent's Walk is very obviously an agenda piece - and weirdly mild as it feels - it is still an agenda piece.

Unfortunately I wonder if Pundit understands how Cocksuck Soyarmy has completely and throughly played him.

I wonder if he cares remotely that he might lose members of his forum. Or that he is behaving exactly like the regressive repressive Wokescolds like other forums like Rpg.net.

Personal admission I have heard of Tekumal the rpg. Came close to joining a game. It never really took off in my neck of the woods beaten soundly by D&D. I'm not a fan of Barker Anti-Semantism I won't call those who pay for or enjoy his products Nazis or those who promote anti-semantism.

Problem is Pundit is so convinced of his side to the point of not being able to see the other side.worse it's like reading one of those sarcastic comments the mods over at Rpg.net or Paizo forums. I'm not seeing any difference at this point really. Either here or on Twitter.

Then again I'm not sure if he remotely cares about chasing away the moderate elements who refuse to kiss his ass. He can surround himself with sycophants I and others like Tenbones are simply not going to do so.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 21, 2022, 05:05:15 PM

Quote from: SHARK on March 21, 2022, 04:34:32 PMThe correct response to this all would have been "I don't care about Barker. Tekumel is great! GTFO."

I don't care about Barker, but Tekumel is a terrible setting. It is so complicated that there are less than ten people on Earth who can actually run it correctly. All these new Nazis that rush to pick up Tekumel will be sorely disappointed.

OTOH, searches for Serpent's Walk are up.

Well, if this thread accomplished anything it's gotten some publicity  for Serpent's Walk.

Good job, Tubesock. I'm sure that wasn't your intention. *wink wink*

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 21, 2022, 06:20:31 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 20, 2022, 06:36:58 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 20, 2022, 01:55:01 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 20, 2022, 01:23:22 PM
Which is unfortunately all the more reason to not bring this up. Or be locked in indecision. We do not know how much they knew of all this. Or for how long. Especially if Barker was as good at concealing this as it seems.

As said before. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.

This would be a different matter if the foundation was also as bad as Barker. But far as we know. They arent.

Damning them for not dragging out the skeleton in their closet is exactly what the Woke do. Beat on them if they do something wrong. Not for being afraid of the mob. Or just being indecisive about what to do.

THEY DID DO SOMETHING WRONG. They distorted history while protecting a Nazi so that they could keep on making money!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#:~:text=Operation%20Paperclip%20was%20a%20secret,Europe%2C%20between%201945%20and%201959.

So, we going to ban Tekumel and it's publishers from being mentioned on this site because MAR Barker reportedly wrote a piece of pro-Nazi fiction? I wouldn't want to get banned for mentioning a forbidden topic.

Barker wasn't working on the space program; he was writing weird RPG books while actively concealing that he was also writing nazi novels and acting as an "editor" for their magazine of revisionist holocaust-denying history.

And the Tekumel Foundation, who claim not to be Nazis, hid that fact so they could keep profiting off his works.

That doesn't answer my question.

Quote from: pawsplay on March 20, 2022, 07:32:03 PM
Hitler remarked he would have preferred the Muslims had won the Battle of Tours (732).  He said he thought Islam would have been preferable for the "German character," calling Christianity "flabby." (link for context)
Phillip Barker changed his name to Muhammad Abd-al-Rahman Barker when he converted to Islam.
The Muslim leader defeated at the Battle of Tours was Muhammad Abdul Rahman Al-Ghafiqi.
I think it's likely MAR Barker renamed himself after a statement by Hitler to indicate his agreement.

The Muslim defeated at Tours was Abd al-Rahman ibn Abdullah al-Ghafiqi.  Abd al-Rahman was a common first name among early Arabs and a common surname now.

You don't need to lie to make Barker look bad.

Quote from: Abraxus on March 21, 2022, 10:13:37 PM
Unfortunately I wonder if Pundit understands how Cocksuck Soyarmy has completely and throughly played him.

I wonder if he cares remotely that he might lose members of his forum. Or that he is behaving exactly like the regressive repressive Wokescolds like other forums like Rpg.net.

Personal admission I have heard of Tekumal the rpg. Came close to joining a game. It never really took off in my neck of the woods beaten soundly by D&D. I'm not a fan of Barker Anti-Semantism I won't call those who pay for or enjoy his products Nazis or those who promote anti-semantism.

Problem is Pundit is so convinced of his side to the point of not being able to see the other side.worse it's like reading one of those sarcastic comments the mods over at Rpg.net or Paizo forums. I'm not seeing any difference at this point really. Either here or on Twitter.

Then again I'm not sure if he remotely cares about chasing away the moderate elements who refuse to kiss his ass. He can surround himself with sycophants I and others like Tenbones are simply not going to do so.

Pundit isn't the one sounding like the regressives at TBP.

The evidence against Barker is pretty damning at this point.

Quote from: pawsplay on March 20, 2022, 07:32:03 PM
Hitler remarked he would have preferred the Muslims had won the Battle of Tours (732).  He said he thought Islam would have been preferable for the "German character," calling Christianity "flabby." (link for context)
Phillip Barker changed his name to Muhammad Abd-al-Rahman Barker when he converted to Islam.
The Muslim leader defeated at the Battle of Tours was Muhammad Abdul Rahman Al-Ghafiqi.
I think it's likely MAR Barker renamed himself after a statement by Hitler to indicate his agreement.

This is some next level armchair psychoanalysis of a dead man.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 21, 2022, 10:51:31 PM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 21, 2022, 05:05:15 PM

Quote from: SHARK on March 21, 2022, 04:34:32 PMThe correct response to this all would have been "I don't care about Barker. Tekumel is great! GTFO."

I don't care about Barker, but Tekumel is a terrible setting. It is so complicated that there are less than ten people on Earth who can actually run it correctly. All these new Nazis that rush to pick up Tekumel will be sorely disappointed.

OTOH, searches for Serpent's Walk are up.

Well, if this thread accomplished anything it's gotten some publicity  for Serpent's Walk.

Good job, Tubesock. I'm sure that wasn't your intention. *wink wink*

Ya got me, I work for National Vanguard Books. Cha-ching!