Anyone live in a household where you wanted to play RPGs as a kid but your parents or other authority figures were against it? What influence, if any, did it have on you? As for my one funny/weird thing said: My momma said D&D was the work of the devil (no joke). I also got hand-written notes warning me about what I was doing was wrong. She suspected but never proved anything.
My dad thought it was a waste of time, that should be spent on more worthy pursuits, but then he felt that way about all games, that said, it never went beyond occasionally trying to dissuaded me from playing.
My sister's did get a little caught up in the anti-DnD craze and once sat down with me and tried to warn me of the dangers they'd heard about, but having heard all that non-sense for a couple years by then I quickly shot down all their arguments and they never brought it up again.
Nope. My mom sat down with me and my brother and played a session just so she could see what all the alarm was about. Here statement "This is just math! Why do you even want to play this stuff? I am happy that you do but its...its just math". This was after I had been playing for several years and was using AD&D. She played a Ranger with a horse named Falfnir.
My mom is German.
She is pretty conservative.
Not highly religious.
A pretty sensible woman.
Bill
Yeah, my mom would have completely freaked if I had even suggested it (theological reasons) and Dad probably would have considered it a waste of time, but the later wouldn't have been a barrier. My mom wasn't the only barrier, being fairly remote and not really being exposed to the possibility.
Plus I was pretty busy otherwise. I did probably 30hrs./week in chours and work. On top of computer tinkering. I went to school to relax.
EDIT: I will say I'm not entirely certain about what my Dad's true reaction would have been, just his outer one. He never said or otherwise indicated to me that he was proud of my academic/intellectual achievements, I only heard about that years later via my Mom. He's not a cold or distant man, in many ways he is jovial. He just came from a background where you usually didn't say stuff like that to your kids. I will also add that the more people I talk to the more I appreciate the parents I have, and am thankful for what they have given me. Yeah, even my Mom who I don't see eye-to-eye on with a lot of things.
My mom was against all forms of intellectual stimulation. She'd bitch at me for reading too much, and often accused me of having too much imagination- whatever the fuck that is. She was angry at me for not being Elvis or the fonz, I think. By the time D&D showed up, though, she'd already lost the war. My Dad's hobbies were alcohol addiction, bitterness and being cheap, he considered anything else a waste of time, but I learned fairly early in life to ignore them both and carry on. It was the only way to escape the trailer park.
My folks are profoundly religious, southern baptists--the "kind of parents" who should have had a huge problem with that devil-worshipping D&D. But they were awesome. My dad, remembering having to sneak out of the house to listen to Johnny Cash when he was a kid, took my brother and I to see KISS for my first concert. That same year, my mom picked up the blue Holmes D&D box, after reading a newspaper article about the new kind of game. She thought I'd like it. Awesome. I love my folks.
My mother always encouraged creativity, although she did sit down and try to understand what D&D was about after she heard all the "warnings" about it. She either realized there was nothing to worry about or she trusted me enough to make the right decisions. No father, step-fathers not worth mentioning.
I went to boy scout camp one year and my buddy and I hooked up with some other gamers. We tried to play D&D in our "off" time, but the scout leaders were horrified and quickly shut us down. So, of course, we snuck out at night and played anyway. Something about playing by candlelight in a darkened woodland clearing and staying alert for the sound of a troop leader somehow made it seem even more sinister. :)
Pete
My mother and my younger brother were my first two players, so no.
No joke, I knew a guy whose mom went through the 1e books and censored out all the nipples with a sharpie. That is a surefire tactic to keep a 15 year old boy from thinking of sex.
I remember the private school I went to showed us a 700 Club special that, looking back on, seems to have been pretty factually wrong (:eek:, I know). Then again, this school also warned us against seeing Duck Tales: The Movie because it had a genie in it.
My folks, to their credit, didn't buy in. I was in a new school soon after.
I think there should be an addendum to the question: Would your parents have been so supportive if they'd known how much of your life you'd eventually spend online arguing about gaming?
;)
To this day, my grandparents still think there's some inherent danger in playing. At one point, my drunk step-father threw out all my D&D stuff because...well, I'm not really sure what he problem was. He was fucked up.
Seanchai
No problem with my own folks, but I played with a pair of brothers whose father was very irritated by the whole thing. He thought it was a complete waste of time.
I stayed over at their house one night. In the morning, we were having breakfast and the first thing Gary said to me (pleadingly) was 'What do my hammers do?' His dad practically exploded. 'Gary! Get your mind of that stupid stuff! First thing in the morning!''
Adam said 'At least we're not out on the street causing mischief.'
The old feller said 'Arr, you probably all take drugs while you're playing!' (you have to imagine an Irish accent) But he did shut up after that.
Well, my dad's always believed that anything that doesn't make money or personal prestige that can be flaunted in church is unworthy of time and effort. This from a guy who hasn't held a job in 30 years.
My mom's okay with it but she does wish I liked church better than gaming. I did catch some flak at church, but mostly from the other kids, who were mainly looking for any reason to harass and beat on me that they could find.
One of my bishops even wished he had time to give it a try.
I was briefly prohibited from buying D&D stuff when the people at my church convinced my mom it was evil, luckily the ban didn't extend to other RPGs. I quit going to church not long after and started buying D&D stuff again anyway.
The church being against D&D was kind of the last straw for me with religion. I started figuring out that if everything I liked was "evil" then maybe I was destined for the dark side anyway, haha.
I had two close calls back in the day. A teacher at my elementary school saw the 700 Club report and tried to shut down the game group. Cooler heads pointed out that the D&D nerds were all getting good grades and none of us were troublemakers. Since she got nowhere with the administration, she tried appealing to us directly to stop running with the devil. Seeing as D&D was the only thing we had going for us, it didn't work.
Of all the parents of my game group, Dave's mom was the most skeptical of the game. At one point she became outright hostile and threatened to throw away all of the D&D books in Dave's room. I was rather upset when Dave reported this back to me, as he was borrowing all my stuff to DM a campaign!
You know, I wonder if there's a copy of that 700 Club report out there anywhere. It'd be a hoot to watch.
I never had a problem with my parents, but one friend went through a bout with his mom (who never seemed terribly religious; I think she simply had "mommy control" issues) and another friend read some guys inspirational book and quit on the spot.
Quote from: Zachary The FirstYou know, I wonder if there's a copy of that 700 Club report out there anywhere. It'd be a hoot to watch.
This isn't it but I think this (http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2003/occult-rpg.htm#truth) is in the same spirit.
My mom is a deeply religious person. My dad... goes through phases of fervor. I can't recall any significant incidents of, "that game is the devil". There were some conflicts about it, but only related to it's impact on my education not my moral wellbeing.
Nope, never experienced it personally, then again I was basically out of the house by '83, probably before the craze started. And the religious mix of my area (suburban area of a major mid-atlantic city) didn't correspond very closely with what I imagine to be the base of BADD and other 80's nonsense.
Closest thing was one time when I was about to head over to a friend's house and my father overheard me on the phone saying I would bring "the stuff", meaning some gaming materials. He asked me what sort of "stuff" I was talking about--he wanted to make sure it wasn't drugs. Which was (a) fairly ridiculous, I didn't even touch alcohol until college, and rarely after that, and (b) easily answered, I just told him what I meant and that was that.
I did see some Jack Chick comics at a store in Connecticut once, during or shortly after college. They were funny, apparently unintentionally. How I wish I'd bought them--I think I've heard they're valuable now.
My dad? Geeky as hell and not conservative in any sense of the word. But I think he attributed my less than perfect grades to DnD.
My stepmom? Never said anything. I figure she realized it didn't matter one way or another.
My mom? Thinks I need to get a life, but has never stopped me.
Never had a problem with it. Probably helped that I was a Trekkie and going to science fiction conventions before I started role-playing and was more into Traveller than D&D. Never saw any signs of "D&D is the Devil's work" in my neck of the woods.
Nope. I started gaming at school at 12 - actually, just shy of it - and then when my mum asked me what I wanted for my 13th birthday, I asked and got the AD&D books. All the other stuff I bought with my pocket money, and later own earnings, as far as I recall.
It was just never an issue. If I was reading a lot, there was the occasional, "shouldn't you be outside having fun?" but then when I did go outside it was, "you shouldn't be out so late, you should be at home studying" or whatever.
For most people in Australia in the 1980s, roleplaying was neither understood nor feared.
Never had a problem on my end. The only smallish problem my mum had with the game were the kids I was gaming with were much older - I was 12 and they were around 16 -17. "Why don't you game with kids your own age", she said. Looked over at kids my own age - not much roleplaying and more importantly no girls - "Don't know anyone my age who plays mum" says I.
Regards,
David R
My parents were just glad I had some kind of extracurricular outlet - I was a bit of a bookworm in school.
Dad didn't mind me gaming at all, he used to obsessively read WW1 Pulp magazines back when he was my age and just thought that gaming was along the same lines. Mom got a little nutty about me gaming and would insist that it was a Bad Influence on me until she saw me deep in Gearhead mode creating a starship using Classic Traveller's High Guard, she decided the game couldn't be all bad if I was using so much math.
(God Save Traveller!)
My Middle School gaming buddies and I used to get bothered by the chief student Baptist nabob of the school and her minions about D&D when we'd be playing during recess, but that was about it. Chalk it up to life in Tennessee in the '80s
My mother always used to go on at me about how I should get out of the house, get some friends, and meet a nice girl.
I sure showed her! :suicide:
I grew up in Salt Lake City and most of my fellow players were Mormon. There was not a whiff of "D&D is the devil." My mom thought is was ok, dad just thought it was a bit of a waste. Some kids got bugged by their parents the same as they would for any bookish pursuit.
Quote from: NicephorusSome kids got bugged by their parents the same as they would for any bookish pursuit.
Having experienced this myself as a kid, I still don't get the motivation behind it. I wonder if it's an American thing.
And why are so many dads down on fun?
Our town got embroiled in the controversy as some fundamentalist parents tried to shut down the after school D&D program that Parks & Rec put on. It got a lot of press in the local paper and a nice little back and forth letters war. My mom was the head psychologist at the general hospital there and she was interviewed for one of the articles. She was very positive about D&D, said it encouraged the imagination and problem-solving skills. A couple of years ago, she put together a little scrapbook of all the articles and letters and gave it to me for my birthday. It revealed two things: 1) my town was pretty liberal and open-minded, judging by the majority of the letters and 2) I was an insane railroady control freak GM who believed in a "right" way to play D&D (this is based on my letter to the paper). I've scanned them all and will put them online one of these days.
Another funny side story from that is that the parents who first complained about the D&D had "666" burned into their front lawn. Later, when I got into partying, one of my buddies (whom I didn't know at the time) told me that he had been one of the kids playing in the after school program. He also was the one who stole his dad's tiger torch and burned the 666 in the lawn. At the time, it had been used as a sign of the influence of satanists. He just did it as a prank because he was pissed off at them.
I only remember all this as a humorous bit of foolery on the news. I realize that for many it was serous business, maybe even for me, I just didn't notice the worry worts.
My father, a first generation atheist from a deeply christian family, had no problems with any of it. A math geek at heart, he probably would have played, if he wasn't so busy hacking away at obscure and unsupportable assembly for rare and broken hardware vital to the U.S. Air-force (to this day I'm none to clear exactly what all he was doing)
My mother, a first gen U.S. immigrant from Japan, had no problems with it either. My mother chaperoned at my first con and wondered at all the geekery.
It's ironic that the uproar over the non-existant dangers of rpg's seems to have caused more harm than any of the games.
Only hassles I got were over how much we played (3-4 times a weeks from when we were 11 until about 14) and some adminishment to get outside and run around instead of sitting in a house all day.
One of my buddies did have a born-again mom, and she gave him a cassette tape about the evils of D&D. We listened to it at our next D&D session and had a good laugh.
Quote from: walkerpOur town got embroiled in the controversy as some fundamentalist parents tried to shut down the after school D&D program that Parks & Rec put on. It got a lot of press in the local paper and a nice little back and forth letters war. My mom was the head psychologist at the general hospital there and she was interviewed for one of the articles. She was very positive about D&D, said it encouraged the imagination and problem-solving skills. A couple of years ago, she put together a little scrapbook of all the articles and letters and gave it to me for my birthday. It revealed two things: 1) my town was pretty liberal and open-minded, judging by the majority of the letters and 2) I was an insane railroady control freak GM who believed in a "right" way to play D&D (this is based on my letter to the paper). I've scanned them all and will put them online one of these days.
Another funny side story from that is that the parents who first complained about the D&D had "666" burned into their front lawn. Later, when I got into partying, one of my buddies (whom I didn't know at the time) told me that he had been one of the kids playing in the after school program. He also was the one who stole his dad's tiger torch and burned the 666 in the lawn. At the time, it had been used as a sign of the influence of satanists. He just did it as a prank because he was pissed off at them.
Got any newspaper clippings you could share?
(I'd ask for a link, but most newspapers acknowledge the Internet age only from 10 years or less ago, so its harder to get access to older articles.)
Quote from: ancientgamerAnyone live in a household where you wanted to play RPGs as a kid but your parents or other authority figures were against it? What influence, if any, did it have on you? As for my one funny/weird thing said: My momma said D&D was the work of the devil (no joke). I also got hand-written notes warning me about what I was doing was wrong. She suspected but never proved anything.
No. I was 21 before I ever played an RPG, in 1977. In fact it was a gift for my my 21st birthday - from my mother. :D
-clash
Quote from: AosHaving experienced this myself as a kid, I still don't get the motivation behind it. I wonder if it's an American thing.
And why are so many dads down on fun?
I wander if they feel like it's class betrayal, like the kid is trying to break out of lower class labor jobs? Or they're distrustful of anything that they couldn't understand? Or, they think "I think I work hard and have no fun so it should be the same for everyone."
This is all pure speculation.
Quote from: NicephorusI wander if they feel like it's class betrayal, like the kid is trying to break out of lower class labor jobs? Or they're distrustful of anything that they couldn't understand? Or, they think "I think I work hard and have no fun so it should be the same for everyone."
This is all pure speculation.
Yeah, that's definately part of it. I've seen plenty of working and lower class parents (mine and several friends) absolutely
hate the idea of their kids being smarter than them or getting ahead of them in life. Aspiring to anything beyond community college and 8 dollars an hour is considered to be "uppity".
My D&D experience was odd. My first D&D set was bought by my grandmother (who, of course, had no clue what she was buying). Mom didn't really care one way or the other (oddly, she showed no interest in the games despite being something of a sci-fi/fantasy geek). And dad spent the next 10+ years hassling me about playing "nerd games" from the "nerd store" (that is, whenever he wasn't being borderline emotionally abusive to me about something else). He also sometimes referred to them sarcastically as "devil games".
I did see some other parents have issues, though. We had one friend in elementary school whose parents flipped out over him playing D&D. We then switched to Star Frontiers for a while, which seemed to be OK with them (though eventually they did get him to stop playing all together).
In high school, one of my friends' girlfriends shrieked like a harpy when she came over while we were playing games, insisting right in front of everyone that eventually the people running the game "make you go out and kill someone". Being the person running the game, I was not amused.
Another guy in high school had parents that were wary, but let him play after reading the AD&D player's guide through to make sure it wasn't satanic. It later caused a lot of static though, because they blamed it for his drop in grades. Sadly, they were more or less correct on that point - he did start to spend more time in class working on AD&D-related stuff (I was a bad influence, I suppose, because I always did stuff like that; but then I was smart enough not to need to pay a whole lot of attention in class).
Here's the thing - if it weren't for D&D, I might have learned how to study and learned things in school. D&D completely ruined by burgeoning academic career.
For this, it was derided often by my Father.
However, there were no philosophical/theological issues - this from a man who up until the day he died reminded me that I was raised catholic and should return to being one. He was a quietly religious man who could have cared less about D&D other than the fact that it distracted me from "working up to my potential" - boy was that a reoccurring theme.
Quote from: James J SkachHe was a quietly religious man who could have cared less about D&D other than the fact that it distracted me from "working up to my potential" - boy was that a reoccurring theme.
At least you knew what you were living up to, LOL.
I have no clue what my father wanted me to be. My two brothers and I have all taken quite different paths in life, and he rarely ever seems happy with any of us. I have to laugh at the idea that we've all failed him in different ways. :D
Quote from: jgantsAt least you knew what you were living up to, LOL.
I have no clue what my father wanted me to be. My two brothers and I have all taken quite different paths in life, and he rarely ever seems happy with any of us. I have to laugh at the idea that we've all failed him in different ways. :D
My Dad wanted me to become something called a "personell manager." I'm not really certain what that is, but it sounds really awful. I think that he had an idea that any job that required a tie was a step up.
Quote from: AosMy Dad wanted me to become something called a "personell manager." I'm not really certain what that is, but it sounds really awful. I think that he had an idea that any job that required a tie was a step up.
Personnel Manager (http://www.completelybonkers.co.uk/images/smi2%20pimp%20purple.jpg) No tie required but a big, fat gold chain and pendant helps.
Quote from: blakkiePersonnel Manager (http://www.completelybonkers.co.uk/images/smi2%20pimp%20purple.jpg) No tie required but a big, fat gold chain and pendant helps.
Wow, that's a good look- and now I know how to spell personnel. Thanks Man!:D
I never had any problems with my parents, in fact they were both pretty supportive, although my dad was recently surprised to discover that I'm still playing "those games I was really into when I was younger".
I recall one occasion when my parents went to a friend's house for a dinner party. Apparently some of the other guests were trying to convince the hosts, whose daughter had apparently joined a LARP group at university and had played TT while still at school, that her soul was in danger. My parents pointed out that they had a won who played RPGs too and it was nothig to be worried about. They thought the whole panic was pretty funny and told me about it the next day.
One guy at school had a few problems with his mum, a born again Baptist, who dragged him off to see the minister and told us she'd pray for our souls. It was pretty wierd because she was a huge fan of pulp sci-fi and fantasy so really should have been one of us, but she eventually saw the light and even tried a little RPing herself not that long ago.
People who are worried about the state of my soul really fucking scare me.
Quote from: ancientgamerThis isn't it but I think this (http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2003/occult-rpg.htm#truth) is in the same spirit.
Some guys never recover from a rail-roady GM. ;)
Quote from: AosPeople who are worried about the state of my soul really fucking scare me.
Me, too. I used to quite freely state I'm an atheist - until I ran into people who wanted to save me. Now I just lie.
I had a problem becuase my mum wanted to play as well and whilst that was okay if it was me my cousin, her and my uncle it was a bit of a bore if my mates were playing. But there were a couple of great games of Daredevils where she did a good job.
When I went to college she started her own game group and ran a campaign for a bout 7 years (if wanted a DM that liked hard work she was just up your street maps of cities where every house had an a5 index card on it - every house!)
In fact I have inherited all of her books recently . Its pretty funny as she was never sure what she had already bought so I must have about 4 copies of the complete fighter.
My dad laughed at it.
What I find weird is that so many of you guys have such conservative Christian parents. Didn't anyone tell them that the Elightenment killed God back in the 1880s? My mum was a sunday school teacher before she fell out with the Anglican's over their treatment of homeosexuals. Then she joined a pro gay church and held prayer meetings in our lounge for a year or so until she decided that they were just as bigoted as the Anglicans. I could have told her that and I was only 14 :-) I guess she was a bit of a joiner ....
Well, I didn't have a dad around to tell me I was wasting my time and my mom was too busy getting drunk most of the time to care what we were doing. On the rare occaison we gamed at my place my mom just asked what we were doing we said "playing a game", no big deal for us.
Most of my friends parents were cool with it.
Quote from: jibbajibbaWhat I find weird is that so many of you guys have such conservative Christian parents. Didn't anyone tell them that the Elightenment killed God back in the 1880s?
No, my mother didn't get that memo. :)
Quote from: AosPeople who are worried about the state of my soul really fucking scare me.
My mother used to say, artist suffer for their art. Priest make art of suffering . Most times neither produce anything of any merit.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: jgantsMe, too. I used to quite freely state I'm an atheist - until I ran into people who wanted to save me. Now I just lie.
While I was finishing up my BA I ran a packaging lab for Seagate (hard disc drive company) in Colorado. When word got out that I was majoring in Anthropology, visitors would come by the lab and start arguments with me about evolvution and the young earth and how I was going to Hell. Good Times. I've mentioned this before, but one of the things I really dig about Spain (where I do my fieldwork) is nobody ever asks me what church I go to.
Quote from: ancientgamerAnyone live in a household where you wanted to play RPGs as a kid but your parents or other authority figures were against it?
Nope. My parents read the Hobbit to me when I was seven, and LoTR when I was nine or so... This was before D&D was published. They didn't understand it for a long time though, however were content that during my teenage years, I was at mostly home in the basement with friends, or over at friends house playing D&D, instead of being out on the streets prowling for trouble like most lads my age.
First time my Dad played D&D was when he received Icewind Dale for Christmas as a gift from his grandson (my sisters boy) back in 96 or 97, that had an immersive story that he liked.
My younger sister never got into D&D until she was almost a middle-aged adult, and she adopted Dragonlance as her personal favorite, on account she had read so many of the DL books and was familiar with the setting and history.
I can't say that D&D kept me out of trouble. It didn't contribute to my youthfull deliquency, It didn't have to, I was doing that all on my own.
My only 'close call' of this sort was when visiting relatives. We're talking hard core religious types, vegetarians for god that sort.
Of course, one of the books I had with me was that D&D ripoff with the black cover and the red pentagram. Not that it would have mattered anyway, they had taped a LONG program from somewhere.
As far as I recall, this was pretty late in the whole 'scare' thing anyway. I mean, all the news stories about nutjobs in Central park murdering their girlfriends and guys committing suicide over the death of Black Leaf were several years old by that point. It must have been around '89, maybe '88.
I politely told them to shove off, sat through about ten minutes of the program as only a sullen, mostly adult, teen can, and told them, slightly less politely that my hobby was none of their concern. The concession I had to make (and don't regret, though at the time it was irritating) was keeping it away from their younger children.
I do not envy my various cousins, ever. Some are 'wealthier' and possibly better off in life, some are even more or less more normalized than me, but every single one of them is whacked in the head in some fashion.
Ah, to be the only sane one in a room, refreshing...:D
Quote from: SpikeOf course, one of the books I had with me was that D&D ripoff with the black cover and the red pentagram.
Palladium Fantasy, wasn't it?
I only wish my parents had taken more of an interest in my gaming, for good or ill. To them, it was just something I did alongside my studies and athletics. I guess I should have chosen a more poignant and undeniable cry for help like my sisters did. :haw:
!i!
Quote from: AosWhen word got out that I was majoring in Anthropology, visitors would come by the lab and start arguments with me about evolvution and the young earth and how I was going to Hell. Good Times.
We had a fundamentalist Christian in our Geology department when I was an undergrad. Nice enough girl, but her faith led to some...awkward discussions outside of lectures. I'm still not sure how she reconciled her faith, her chosen field of study, and her choice to attend a liberal arts university.
QuoteI've mentioned this before, but one of the things I really dig about Spain (where I do my fieldwork) is nobody ever asks me what church I go to.
Well, at one of the many Catholic churches, of course. :)
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWell, at one of the many Catholic churches, of course. :)
That's what I was thinking. They don't ask because they assume. :)
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWell, at one of the many Catholic churches, of course. :)
You sound like there are
any other churches :D
Church choice in Spain is almost as easy as in Italy.
None of my spanish friends go to church. They're all holding a grudge about the Franco/Catholic love in.
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWe had a fundamentalist Christian in our Geology department when I was an undergrad. Nice enough girl, but her faith led to some...awkward discussions outside of lectures. I'm still not sure how she reconciled her faith, her chosen field of study, and her choice to attend a liberal arts university.Well, at one of the many Catholic churches, of course. :)
But I do love messing with the minds of those fundie types. Once during a cross country drive that lasted five hours this
extremely Christian woman was going on about those damn Muslims in Palenstine causing all those problems. Didn't they know that soon the Jews would convert and Jesus would return to the Holy Land ? When I mentioned that George Habash was Greek Orthodox....her face scrunched up and she began a rant about unfaithful brothers and sister of Christ. Good times :D
Regards,
David R
Quote from: AosNone of my spanish friends go to church. They're all holding a grudge about the Franco/Catholic love in.
I know. I kid. None of my Spanish acquaintences I can think of have ever expressed any abiding interest in the Catholic faith, either.
!i!
Quote from: blakkieThat's what I was thinking. They don't ask because they assume. :)
Actually, church attendence is plummeting in Spain. Especially among the under-40 population.
We should have a Crusade!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWe had a fundamentalist Christian in our Geology department when I was an undergrad. Nice enough girl, but her faith led to some...awkward discussions outside of lectures. I'm still not sure how she reconciled her faith, her chosen field of study, and her choice to attend a liberal arts university.
Well, at one of the many Catholic churches, of course. :)
!i!
Funny how did she cope with all the dinosaur bones in the Geology lab and how did she do on essays about geological time periods and plate techtonics.
I guess she could cover herself with a 'soandso claimed that ...' before each accepted fact.
"Geologists claim that oil bearing rock strata was laid down in the Carboniferous period c.75 million years ago (NB this is not true it was put there by God and made to look older in order to test our faith as the world is only 5000 years old)"
And I don't think American's really understand just how not at all seriously Europeans take religion. Even in Northern Ireland were the Protestants and the Catholics have been at war for 350 years no one actually goes to church or beleives in God.
A great indicator is American sitcoms. The Simpsons, the Griffins actually go to church. It would never occur to an English or Frnech writer to actually include that in a show.
Quote from: jibbajibbaFunny how did she cope with all the dinosaur bones in the Geology lab and how did she do on essays about geological time periods and plate techtonics.
I guess she could cover herself with a 'soandso claimed that ...' before each accepted fact.
"Geologists claim that oil bearing rock strata was laid down in the Carboniferous period c.75 million years ago (NB this is not true it was put there by God and made to look older in order to test our faith as the world is only 5000 years old)"
And I don't think American's really understand just how not at all seriously Europeans take religion. Even in Northern Ireland were the Protestants and the Catholics have been at war for 350 years no one actually goes to church or beleives in God.
A great indicator is American sitcoms. The Simpsons, the Griffins actually go to church. It would never occur to an English or Frnech writer to actually include that in a show.
Fundy doesn't necessarily mean Young Earther, although they often do go hand in hand.
I think you have skewed idea of America- it is a huge place, and the coasts are VERY different from the interior. Church going is pretty common in the interior, not so much on the coasts (with the possible exception of the South East) both of the shows you mention are supposed to take place in the midwest- where church going is fairly common.
Quote from: AosFundy doesn't necessarily mean Young Earther, although they often do go hand in hand.
I think you have skewed idea of America- it is a huge place, and the coasts are VERY different from the interior. Church going is pretty common in the interior, not so much on the coasts (with the possible exception of the South East) both of the shows you mention are supposed to take place in the midwest- where church going is fairly common.
No I knew the coast/midwest split its just the fact that church going is common anywhere is just amusing. I think Fundy and Young earthers are usually the same I mean the bible clearly lays out the number of generations (and in many cases the ages of the elders in those generations) from Adam down to Jesus . You surely can't be a fundermentalist and then opt not to believe the entire Holy writ.
Quote from: AosFundy doesn't necessarily mean Young Earther, although they often do go hand in hand.
I think you have skewed idea of America- it is a huge place, and the coasts are VERY different from the interior. Church going is pretty common in the interior, not so much on the coasts (with the possible exception of the South East) both of the shows you mention are supposed to take place in the midwest- where church going is fairly common.
Yep. I grew up in Washington State near the Idaho border, in small farming towns. They were very conservative - everyone listened to Rush Limbaugh, being gay would not have been tolerated, and everyone voted Republican (when my father ran for sheriff as a Democrat, getting 10% of the vote was considered a success).
And yet, religion was never that big of a deal. A lot of people didn't regularly attend church outside of Easter/Christmas, or changed which church they went to without too much thought. Everyone more or less believed in evolution, abortion wasn't something that was talked about but no one really opposed it strongly either, and outside of some real odd elements no one ever complained about rock music, dancing, alcohol, or gambling (in fact, many regularly visited the nearby Indian casinos).
When I moved out to the Midwest, I was surprised how different the conservative element was. It wasn't necessarily the dominant force (Iowa, for example, is very much a swing state), but what conservatives are here are much, much more conservative. I never saw signs in cornfields condemning abortion before, or protesters at planned parenthood clinics, or people voting down legalizing gambling based on shouts from the local pulpits, or the expectation that you go to church weekly, or a more widespread opposition to evolution. I never saw Pentecostals or Southern Baptists before. I even saw a church here with pictures of sinners being tossed into the flames of hell on its billboard.
And when I lived in Kansas for a couple of years, it was even worse.
Quote from: jibbajibbaNo I knew the coast/midwest split its just the fact that church going is common anywhere is just amusing. I think Fundy and Young earthers are usually the same I mean the bible clearly lays out the number of generations (and in many cases the ages of the elders in those generations) from Adam down to Jesus . You surely can't be a fundermentalist and then opt not to believe the entire Holy writ.
Although the biblical calculation of the Earth's age can be tracked back quite a ways (it certainly predates Bishop Usher (sp?)), as recently as the turn of the last century almost no one, Christian or otherwise gave it any credence. The modern young earth movement was actually born in the first half of the 20th century. It is not so old or universal phenomenon as you might think. I'm not trying to contradict you merely to be a dick, I actually have spent a good deal of time formally studying this topic. If you are really interested in getting a good idea of where the young earth movement comes from, and how it fits into Christianity as a whole you might take a look at this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Creationists-Scientific-Creationism-Intelligent-Expanded/dp/0674023390/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205939109&sr=8-1
Quote from: AosAlthough the biblical calculation of the Earth's age can be tracked back quite a ways (it certainly predates Bishop Usher (sp?)), as recently as the turn of the last century almost no one, Christian or otherwise gave it any credence. The modern young earth movement was actually born in the first half of the 20th century. It is not so old or universal phenomenon as you might think. I'm not trying to contradict you merely to be a dick, I actually have spent a good deal of time formally studying this topic. If you are really interested in getting a good idea of where the young earth movement comes from, and how it fits into Christianity as a whole you might take a look at this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Creationists-Scientific-Creationism-Intelligent-Expanded/dp/0674023390/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205939109&sr=8-1
that is quite interesting but surely you are neglecting the facts ...
with the archeological landmark event of the fall of Jerusalem (which has now been corrected to 588 B.C., instead of 586-587 B.C.) and counting backwards the prophesied number of years between this event and the division of Solomon's kingdom (390 yrs. + 40 yrs., according to Ezekiel 4:4-7), brings us to 1018 B.C.
From the end of Solomon's 40-year reign to the start of the Temple in the 4th year of his reign takes us back another 37 years to 1055 B.C.
From the start of Solomon's Temple "in the 480th year" (1 Kings 6:1) back to the Exodus from Egypt (hence 479 years previous) brings us to near 1534 B.C.
From the Exodus out of Egypt to Abraham's entering Canaan from Haran was exactly 430 years to the day (Gen 12:10/ Exodus 12:40/ Gal 3:17), thus around 1964 B.C.
Since Abraham entered Canaan at age 75 (Gen 12:4), he was born approximately 2039 B.C.
From Abraham's birth to Noah's grandson (Shem's son), Arpachshad's birth, 2 years after the Flood started, was 290 years (Gen 11:11-26), this places the onset of the Flood at around 2331 B.C. [definitely 4,300-4,400 years ago].
The genealogy of Genesis 5:3-32 precludes any gaps due to its tight chronological structure and gives us 1,656 years between Creation and the Flood, thus bringing Creation Week back to near 3987 B.C. or approximately 4000 B.C.
Therefore, the biblical age of the Earth (using Scripture itself as a guide) is 6,000 years !!
Surely no self respecting Fundamentalist can dispute this facts !
Quote from: Aos...as the turn of the last century almost no one, Christian or otherwise gave it any credence.
Or did people just not think about it much. Was the age of the earth really that much in the public mind before some time late in the 19th century? Doesn't the conflict arises from collection of paleontology evidence? Before that it was really a matter of which myths you listened two and myths are somewhat more easily dismissed.
Quote from: jibbajibbaSurely no self respecting Fundamentalist can dispute this facts !
I'm not a Christian but I think it depends on how Fundy or literal you are. One can be a conservative evangelical without taking every date literally.
The Catholic church has basically said that it has no position on Evolution and that the matter has little bearing on Christianity.
Quote from: blakkieOr did people just not think about it much. Was the age of the earth really that much in the public mind before some time late in the 19th century? Doesn't the conflict arises from collection of paleontology evidence? Before that it was really a matter of which myths you listened two and myths are somewhat more easily dismissed.
Actually no. It was much more than that. The learned places of the 'west' had to be convinced by the evidence of an old earth. Especially of one billions of years old. They didn't know about atomic and sub atomic processes so there was always the problem of how long the sun could burn, for a while the consensus was that it couldn't have been billions of years.
This was regardless of myth or religion.
Initially no one cared, for a long time a number of Christians viewed the Creation as an alagory. This is the standard position of the Jewish faith.
Bishop Ussher (?) in 1600 or something worked out that he earth must have been created in 4004 BC based on the timings I gave above and a few others. It was starting to get important at that point as there was a conflcit between the church and science on a lot of stuff from the Earth Centric universe to the role of the serf and Divine Kingship.
The theory was there but largely ignored and most Christians didn't fret much about it and it kind of faded away. But then American evangelicals got hold of in the 1920s and it was tied to the whole idea of fundamentalism. If you believe in the bible you have to believe all of it and you can't cherry pick. You can't be a Real Christian and believe in evolution, you can't be a Real Christian and believe that the world is 4.5 billion years old. And there you go.
My question was really I guess was this Christian girl a Young Earther and how did she reconcile that and studying Geology.
We have a great one at a diveristy training sesison where a woman (not British needless to say as we beleive in nothing except fair play and warm beer ) who was Christian basically told the trainer and the 2 gay people int eh room that they were going to hell because they sinned against God's law
funny
Quote from: AosFundy doesn't necessarily mean Young Earther, although they often do go hand in hand.
True, and perhaps I should have clarified that, though she was a fundamentalist Christian, she wasn't a Young Earther (at least not that she professed). Still, it occasionally became evident that there were conflicts between the interpretation of her faith and the interpretation of the science.
For the record, she was nothing but pleasant in every interaction I ever had with her. In her defense, she handled some pretty aggressive arrogance quite gracefully. I didn't admire her the divided path she'd chosen to follow.
!i!
Quote from: jibbajibbaInitially no one cared, for a long time a number of Christians viewed the Creation as an alagory. This is the standard position of the Jewish faith.
Bishop Ussher (?) in 1600 or something worked out that he earth must have been created in 4004 BC based on the timings I gave above and a few others.
This is misleading as dating systems using the beginning of the world were common over a thousand years before that. The later Romans and Byzantines used Anno Mundi or Etos Kosmou, estimating the beginning around 5500 BC.
Quote from: NicephorusThis is misleading as dating systems using the beginning of the world were common over a thousand years before that. The later Romans and Byzantines used Anno Mundi or Etos Kosmou, estimating the beginning around 5500 BC.
Fair point. These must have have influenced any 'scientific' Christian approach.
And well done that was precisely your 1000th post.
And I was glad to read that she was a nice girl and i figure if you can be a fundamentalist of any stripe and still be a nice person there might be something left to save :-)
Quote from: AosFundy doesn't necessarily mean Young Earther, although they often do go hand in hand.
I think you have skewed idea of America- it is a huge place, and the coasts are VERY different from the interior. Church going is pretty common in the interior, not so much on the coasts (with the possible exception of the South East) both of the shows you mention are supposed to take place in the midwest- where church going is fairly common.
Actually, Family Guy is set in Rhode Island.
I had a couple of run-ins. They make for amusing anecdotes. Why, yes, I do feel like sharing!
WHEREIN DR ROTWANG! LEARNS AN IMPORTANT LESSON ABOUT PRETTY GIRLS
In high school (1988-1992), I was keen on those looseleaf binders with the clear plastic window in front. Into one such binder, at one time, I had slid the Ghostbusters RPG player's guide. It looked good, and Amber spotted it.
I dunno if her name really WAS Amber, but I think it was. Amber was pretty; she was damn pretty. Incredibly, she talked to me. Weird!
When she asked me what was up with the Ghostbusters action in my binder, I just shrugged and explained. "Oh," I said, "this is one of the books from my Ghostbusters role-playing game."
"Role-playing game?" she asked. Carmine lips, golden blonde hair, talking to me. Asking about my interests.
"Yeah, you know," I continued. "Sort of like Dungeons & Dragons. This one's about, uh, Ghostbusters, obviously."
"Do you play Dungeons & Dragons?" asked the clear-eyed, fresh-faced upperclasman, in the bloom of youth's beauty, asking me about me.
"No, I don't," I replied, truthfully.
"Well, you shouldn't play it."
In my head, the sound of screeching tires, a car crash, a weird, cartoony BOI-oi-oinngggg -- ! "Uh...what?"
"Well", she said, walking with me (with me, you dig?), "the problem is that when you cast spells in the game, you're really casting spells. Spiritually. It invites demons."
Now...I knew she was Christian, but I never thought of her as, you know, weird about it. "Amber," I said, "I'm pretty sure that when you cast a spell in a D&D game, you really just say, 'Okay, I'll cast my fireball; what happens?'"
"No. No, you're really casting spells, spiritually. Don't play Dungeons & Dragons, OK?"
"Uhh..." Oh, lovely girl, so kind, so sweet. Talking to me...talking herself away. "I'll...try."
We went to our respective classes. I have no further memories of the girl.
On that day, Dr Rotwang!, aged 14, nerdy boy with big dreams and romance in his heart, learned this very important thing: Pretty is pretty, but sensible is better.
Quote from: WarthurActually, Family Guy is set in Rhode Island.
That's in the Midwest, isn't it? I mean, it's not actually an "island", right?
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThat's in the Midwest, isn't it? I mean, it's not actually an "island", right?
!i!
Ah yes, Us Americans with no knowledge of Geography....
Not even our own.
Quote from: jibbajibbathat is quite interesting but surely you are neglecting the facts ...
with the archeological landmark event of the fall of Jerusalem (which has now been corrected to 588 B.C., instead of 586-587 B.C.) and counting backwards the prophesied number of years between this event and the division of Solomon's kingdom (390 yrs. + 40 yrs., according to Ezekiel 4:4-7), brings us to 1018 B.C.
From the end of Solomon's 40-year reign to the start of the Temple in the 4th year of his reign takes us back another 37 years to 1055 B.C.
From the start of Solomon's Temple "in the 480th year" (1 Kings 6:1) back to the Exodus from Egypt (hence 479 years previous) brings us to near 1534 B.C.
From the Exodus out of Egypt to Abraham's entering Canaan from Haran was exactly 430 years to the day (Gen 12:10/ Exodus 12:40/ Gal 3:17), thus around 1964 B.C.
Since Abraham entered Canaan at age 75 (Gen 12:4), he was born approximately 2039 B.C.
From Abraham's birth to Noah's grandson (Shem's son), Arpachshad's birth, 2 years after the Flood started, was 290 years (Gen 11:11-26), this places the onset of the Flood at around 2331 B.C. [definitely 4,300-4,400 years ago].
The genealogy of Genesis 5:3-32 precludes any gaps due to its tight chronological structure and gives us 1,656 years between Creation and the Flood, thus bringing Creation Week back to near 3987 B.C. or approximately 4000 B.C.
Therefore, the biblical age of the Earth (using Scripture itself as a guide) is 6,000 years !!
Surely no self respecting Fundamentalist can dispute this facts !
This is not a response to my post, so why bother to quote me? I am well aware of all the shit you cited. I am an archaeologist, after all. It is not relevant to the discussions as to weather or not all fundies are young earthers.
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThat's in the Midwest, isn't it? I mean, it's not actually an "island", right?
!i!
It is indeed an island, in Lake Michigan.
What, you want some more? Still awake? Okay...
WHEREIN THE DOC! USES KNOWLEDGE TO PUNCH IDIOCY IN THE ASS
Used to be, there was a comics/game/head shop in downtown Bloomington, IN. 25th Century Five-and-Dime, in the basement of the Allen building*. I did a lot of hanging out there.
One evening I went in and said hello to Mike Redman, owner and operator of the shop, and got to browsing. Soon enough, a couple of boys and a couple of girls (mid-to-late-teens, teased hair, baseball caps, good-ole-boy stereotypes) rolled in.
"Where's your Dungeons & Dragons stuff?", they asked.
"In the back, there," Mike replied.
"Well," said one of the guys, "How do you get started?"
"They want to play Dungeons & Dragons and summon demons," said one of the girls. "we've heard..."
Of course, I was watching these fucktards like a hawk -- a hawk trying not to laugh. Mike tossed me a look then, sort of conspiratorial, sort of pleading, as the kids kept talking.
"Hey," Mike said to me, "This is kind of your thing. Think you can help them out?"
Of course, Mike. I will help them all the way out. "Sure," I replied. Then, to the tittering youths, "Follow me. You wanna play some D&D, huh?"
"Yeah," said one. "If you guys summon a demon or something," said one girl, "I'm not responsible."
We got to the used game stuff. "Okay," I said. You guys are just starting out, so...you might need the Red Box, here -- then again, here's the Rules Cyclopedia. This'll keep you playing for a long time." I opened up the book and flipped the pages for them. Their necks craned in.
Their faces changed, like dropped puppets, from tittering to bored. Throw a plate of spaghetti at the wall and watch it slowly drip down -- just like that.
"Where's the satanic spells?" Said one.
"Uh...none of those," I replied, flipping pages. "Just the descriptions, here. Tell you how many dice to roll, and so on -- you'll need a few sets of dice, too. Up at the counter. Three sets, maybe?"
I continued on autopilot for all of... dunno, 90 seconds, before they shrugged, sheepishly, and said, "That's okay." I think they browsed for a couple more minutes and then tromped back up the steps to street-level.
"Thanks," Mike said, and I'm still not sure if he meant for helping or for getting them the hell out of here.
"No problem," I said. I bought some stuff and left, too.
I wonder if I still see those doofuses, all grown up now?
COMICS NERDS: Both Gene Ha and Art Lyon used to work there; that's how I met 'em. Swank, no?
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThat's in the Midwest, isn't it? I mean, it's not actually an "island", right?
!i!
Boy, and I thought I was bad about geography. :D
It is indeed largely not an island, but it's in New England, between Massachusetts and Connecticut. It's one of the original 13 colonies.
Quote from: jgantsBoy, and I thought I was bad about geography. :D
It is indeed largely not an island, but it's in New England, between Massachusetts and Connecticut. It's one of the original 13 colonies.
And it's in
Lovecraft Country!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaPalladium Fantasy, wasn't it?
I only wish my parents had taken more of an interest in my gaming, for good or ill. To them, it was just something I did alongside my studies and athletics. I guess I should have chosen a more poignant and undeniable cry for help like my sisters did. :haw:
!i!
Now that I've had a night to think about it I think it was called 'Arcanum' or something. I had a chance to pick up a used copy a couple of years ago, but since I had already learned the one clever RPG trick it was capable of teaching me, I didn't bother.
You could keep your XP to level, or you could sell it to be neat abilities (Feats, only before they existed...). Swank, no?
Young Earth is Ha Ha type stuff.
Plz leave your ridiculous religions at the door.
Quote from: BlackhandYoung Earth is Ha Ha type stuff.
Plz leave your ridiculous religions at the door.
It is Ha Ha stuff until you wake up and realize that they've done something like gained a majority of the local school board and decided not to teach evolution in school.
Yeah, I live in Oklahoma. It's really bad here. There are 30 churches in my pop. 15k small town.
A guy whom I thought was my friend quit talking to me after he found out I was an animist and my roomate an atheist. I had made no previous comment revealing my spirituality.
However, you can ignore these people for the most part. The compromise here is that they teach evolution, but some of the teachers don't like it. My children do not attend their classes because I'm a very loud and intimidating person. The school board is afraid of mobs of folk like me, and there are a lot of us here.
Really it's fucking silly. The earth is 5,000 years old? Man has existed in his present form for ~100,000 years as the archaeologist can confirm.
The Gods put them here to test our faith. And judgement. And common sense. No matter how you view your own personal god, I think we can all agree on this (except the mentally handicapped fundamentalists).
I'm glad we have the young earthers to teach our children how not to be a fucking idiot, by setting a personal example and proving once and for all that in fact blind worship of silly man-made dogma is tantamount to spiritual and academic suicide.
Anyone with half a brain doesn't attend a christian church - even if they believe in the Christian God.
And while I might not be an atheist, at least my ex-roomate didn't try to fucking convince me I'm going to imaginary hell every 30 seconds. We got along quite well.
The Christians! We should line them up and start cutting off their heads, like they want us to.
Quote from: SpikeAh yes, Us Americans with no knowledge of Geography....
Not even our own.
Your cruelty shames us both. :(
Quote from: blakkieIt is indeed an island, in Lake Michigan.
Ah, okay. So I was only half-wrong.
!i!
Quote from: BlackhandYoung Earth is Ha Ha type stuff.
Says the fellow who thinks rocks and trees can think and talk.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSays the fellow who thinks rocks and trees can think and talk.
!i!
This is evocative of ignorance, not comedy. :D
I never said they think and talk. From the sound of this comment, you're probably a young earther (you might still be in the closet).
Why don't you go find a congregation of them and talk bad about me? You can have a coming out party or whatever Christians have when they figure out they can't handle reality.
Quote from: BlackhandYou're probably a young earther.
I am, indeed. Only I think the Earth is only 1 hour and 23 seconds old. All of existence was created
in toto at that moment, with evidence and memories fabricated to support the appearance that it's all billions of years old. My kind, of course, suffers the heresy among those who believe that the world is, in fact, still
yet to be created -- an event that will only occur in another 34 seconds.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI am, indeed. Only I think the Earth is only 1 hour and 23 seconds old. All of existence was created in toto at that moment, with evidence and memories fabricated to support the appearance that it's all billions of years old. My kind, of course, suffers the heresy among those who believe that the world is, in fact, still yet to be created -- an event that will only occur in another 34 seconds.
!i!
That this is a reasonable facsimile of Young Earth church beliefs should be enough to shut down the entire evangelical machine.
I'm Native American, btw. Not all of us were converted when the white man poisoned us and took our land.
Plz save the Geronimo and Tonto jokes. The christians have called me all kinds of names - Wagonburner, Redskin, but my favorite so far is Dirt Worshipper - for some reason I don't take offense at that one. Or Wagonburner.
Did I ever tell you of the fellow who was convinced he created the world anew each time he opened the door to his house?
His 'religion' was that if he didn't percieve it directly it didn't exist. Even if he had already perceived it directly in the past, once it was out of his sight it ceased to be until it returned.
Ian, what can I say? I'm an American, we're just wrong in the head that way.
Quote from: SpikeDid I ever tell you of the fellow who was convinced he created the world anew each time he opened the door to his house?
His 'religion' was that if he didn't percieve it directly it didn't exist. Even if he had already perceived it directly in the past, once it was out of his sight it ceased to be until it returned.
Ian, what can I say? I'm an American, we're just wrong in the head that way.
Sounds like this guy was truly at peace. :haw:
Quote from: BlackhandI'm Native American, btw.
Duly noted. For what it's worth, the comment about rocks and trees thinking and talking* was provided only as counter-point to your remarks about the Young Earth theory. It's funny to watch someone attack someone else's faith-based belief while proclaiming their own.
!i!
(*And I'm familiar enough with animism to know and admit that I was talking out of my ass with you.)
Quote from: jibbajibbaAnd I don't think American's really understand just how not at all seriously Europeans take religion. Even in Northern Ireland were the Protestants and the Catholics have been at war for 350 years no one actually goes to church or beleives in God.
A great indicator is American sitcoms. The Simpsons, the Griffins actually go to church. It would never occur to an English or Frnech writer to actually include that in a show.
Dunno about whole Europe, but at least in my corner of Southern Germany church-going is in the rural areas still a wide-spread activity. (Not for me - I'm an atheist myself.)
However, if it is more a question of prestige or one of actual faith could well be up to debate.
And certainly here no one seriously claims that earth is few thousand years or demonstrates actively against abortion.
(Apart from fringe sects, and they are anyway frowned upon by the Catholic mainstream and therefore doomed to irrelevance. Say against the Pope and his believers whatever you want, but at least wherever they are in the majority, religious nutjobs have a hard time to matter.)
And to get back again on topic: While I certainly had my fair share of encounters with fanatics, I was never persecuted due to gaming. But then again I joined the hobby back in the late 90s, and even those few Euros who could be fanatically enough to be bothered by a stupid dice&minis game because of the magic missiles have never heard of RPGs.
Sometimes ignorance is a bliss.
Quote from: Blackhandfor some reason I don't take offense at that one. Or Wagonburner.
Well, I would say that from a certain perspective, Wagonburner could be taken as a point of pride. Like calling yourself 'Skullsplitter' something.
Then again, I've never understood the psychology of insults, at least not since I outgrew the 'rubber/glue' taunt.
I mean... Redskin? First of all, how is that insulting anyone? Inaccurate, certainly.
All I can gather is that the intent is hurtful, therefore you allow yourself to be hurt by it.
Its like calling Ian a 'caveman'. He could chose to get all upset and say 'I don't live in a cave, motherfucker' or he could be 'yup, I'm a caveman, you wanna make something of it, pinky?'
His response would be dictated by his personal view of the term, certainly, but even more by the intent with which it is used... I suspect.
Quote from: SpikeDid I ever tell you of the fellow who was convinced he created the world anew each time he opened the door to his house?
His 'religion' was that if he didn't percieve it directly it didn't exist. Even if he had already perceived it directly in the past, once it was out of his sight it ceased to be until it returned.
I believe the term is solipsism (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/solipsism).
QuoteHis 'religion' was that if he didn't percieve it directly it didn't exist.
Sounds like certain people around here with regards to game styles, sandbox play, etc.
Yes, I am aware of the term. This was someone who, for lack of a better word, preached it... though he seemed unaware that his philosophy was a rather extreme extension of an existing '-ism'...
... and by being unaware of it, it did not actually exist I suppose.
Quote from: TrevelyanSome guys never recover from a rail-roady GM. ;)
I learned the following from the website I linked earlier.
1. Never play D&D with Satan.
2. Don't mess with Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokeman, and Magic players. They are young magicians in the making who can summon dark forces upon you.
3. Everyone is an impressional idiot; their minds are warped by the merest whisper of a suggestion.:)
Quote from: SpikeWell, I would say that from a certain perspective, Wagonburner could be taken as a point of pride. Like calling yourself 'Skullsplitter' something.
Then again, I've never understood the psychology of insults, at least not since I outgrew the 'rubber/glue' taunt.
I mean... Redskin? First of all, how is that insulting anyone? Inaccurate, certainly.
All I can gather is that the intent is hurtful, therefore you allow yourself to be hurt by it.
Its like calling Ian a 'caveman'. He could chose to get all upset and say 'I don't live in a cave, motherfucker' or he could be 'yup, I'm a caveman, you wanna make something of it, pinky?'
His response would be dictated by his personal view of the term, certainly, but even more by the intent with which it is used... I suspect.
Exactly.
I remember a fight in my high school between a white kid and a Native American kid. The (obviously dumb) white kid called the other kid a "taco bender", obviously mixing up his racial epitaphs. However, it still provoked a fight.
My wife now delights in the childhood taunt of "Chinaman girl", because:[list=a]
- She wasn't Chinese
- The inherent contradiction between being a "-man" and a "girl" simultaneously
!i!
When I started up my first D&D game in high school, a friend of mine called to ask if it was that game where you comitted suicide if you died in-game.
He took my startled laughter as a sign of relief. Apparently, when he told his relatives he was going to start playing D&D, they filled his head with all manner of idiocy, including the above-mentioned penalty for failure.
We've gamed together for over a decade now.
Quote from: Arsenic CanaryApparently, when he told his relatives he was going to start playing D&D, they filled his head with all manner of idiocy, including the above-mentioned penalty for failure.
Really? You're not playing old school if you don't commit suicide when your character dies...wussies...
Quote from: jgantsI remember a fight in my high school between a white kid and a Native American kid. The (obviously dumb) white kid called the other kid a "taco bender", obviously mixing up his racial epitaphs. However, it still provoked a fight.
Once in London, someone called me a Paki Bastard. Needless to say I was pretty offended because 1) I'm Indian of Sri Lankan origin 2) Mum and Dad believed in protection while engaging in premarital relations. (Don't you just hate it when they get their racial epithets mixed up....shows a lack of conviction, if you ask me)
Regards,
David R
Quote from: ancientgamer1. Never play D&D with Satan.
Especially if he is the GM! ("You really do want those Gloves of Power, don't you? Well I'm sure we can come to some kind of arrangement...")
Quote from: David ROnce in London, someone called me a Paki Bastard. Needless to say I was pretty offended because 1) I'm Indian of Sri Lankan origin 2) Mum and Dad believed in protection while engaging in premarital relations. (Don't you just hate it when they get their racial epithets mixed up....shows a lack of conviction, if you ask me)
Regards,
David R
I am fully of the opinion that if you really want to use insults to hurt people, you really MUST get to know them first. The better you know them, the more cutting your insults will be.
Insulting random strangers is not unlike sticking your dick into random holes in bathroom stalls. Sure, every once in a while you'll get an anonymous blowjob, but far more often someone will hit it with something hard or you'll encounter live electrical wires or...
Quote from: SkyrockHowever, if it is more a question of prestige or one of actual faith could well be up to debate.
See earlier comments about the Church of England (belief in God optional) for the British version of the same.
Quote from: TrevelyanSee earlier comments about the Church of England (belief in God optional) for the British version of the same.
The Church of England is great. We need more religions based on homemade jam, keeping the church clean and the cricket pitches well watered and a few less relgions full of all this God nonsense
My dad still regrets being such a dick about discouraging me from gaming. Although he never could stop me, he was always disparaging about it. A few years ago he asked me if I still gamed, and I was happily surprised when he replied "Good, I never should have discouraged you from gaming." I was pretty flabbergasted, and surprised.
Quote from: Serious PaulMy dad still regrets being such a dick about discouraging me from gaming. Although he never could stop me, he was always disparaging about it. A few years ago he asked me if I still gamed, and I was happily surprised when he replied "Good, I never should have discouraged you from gaming." I was pretty flabbergasted, and surprised.
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That's...really nice, Paul. :)
!i!
Yeah I was pretty surprised. My dad is a Budweiser drinking, car guy who spent nearly half his life in the military. He never seemed to have much use for my artistic endeavors-I paint, sketch, write (Admittedly poorly), act (Mostly like an ass), and even did a few years of Debate/Forensics. While he never directly stopped me or prohibited me from doing this stuff, it wasn't until recently he realized that money could be made doing this "Stuff"-as he calls it.
Shamefully I make no money being creative, instead I pretend to be Johhny Law for the State! (I do okay apparently, because I still have the jorb.)
My parents weren't very conservative and my involvement with roleplaying games meant that I would socialize (which I wouldn't do from 12-14 until I was introduced to RPGs). They welcomed it.
However, in my junior and senior years of high school, I was sent to a christian boarding school (my family is not even religious, but it was to keep me away from becoming a troubled youth, apparently) and there RPGs were regarded as highly dangerous. In fact, once faculty realized we would hold rpg games, they banned all dice on campus. You heard it... no dice. So we would use cards instead of rolling dice when playing dice-based systems. Also, it allowed me to properly introduce Amber Diceless to all the rpgers at the school.
I still laugh about it from time to time. There was an interesting perspective on RPGs in France (where I grew up) at the time (90's) because of a couple of suicides and even a murder somehow linking disturbed kids and roleplaying games.
Lol. "...dice are therefore banned until further notice." There were maybe a total of ten people out of 600 who enjoyed RPGs at this school. They made such a big deal out of it. I miss clandestine roleplaying...
Quote from: Serious PaulMy dad still regrets being such a dick about discouraging me from gaming. Although he never could stop me, he was always disparaging about it. A few years ago he asked me if I still gamed, and I was happily surprised when he replied "Good, I never should have discouraged you from gaming." I was pretty flabbergasted, and surprised.
Good on your Dad for figuring stuff out and taking the initiative to talk to you about it.
Being an older father I consider it an upside that I've had time to figure some things about life out before it's into the breech and making decisions. Because they are hell-of-tough choices to make. IME when we're younger we tend to just fall back on what
our parents did, and bad cycles can perpetuate.
P.S. Of course the downside is I'm going to be at least the latter half of my 50's before I get the last one out of the house. :what:
Quote from: blakkieP.S. Of course the downside is I'm going to be at least the latter half of my 50's before I get the last one out of the house. :what:
I feel your pain; I'll be 55 when my oldest turns 20.
Quote from: Serious PaulMy dad still regrets being such a dick about discouraging me from gaming. Although he never could stop me, he was always disparaging about it. A few years ago he asked me if I still gamed, and I was happily surprised when he replied "Good, I never should have discouraged you from gaming." I was pretty flabbergasted, and surprised.
This kind of stories makes me sad, but yours put a smile on my face. :)
Quote from: AosI feel your pain; I'll be 55 when my oldest turns 20.
I'll be 57....