Quote from: AosNone of my spanish friends go to church. They're all holding a grudge about the Franco/Catholic love in.

I know.  I kid.  None of my Spanish acquaintences I can think of have ever expressed any abiding interest in the Catholic faith, either.

!i!

Quote from: blakkieThat's what I was thinking. They don't ask because they assume.

Actually, church attendence is plummeting in Spain. Especially among the under-40 population.

We should have a Crusade!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWe had a fundamentalist Christian in our Geology department when I was an undergrad.  Nice enough girl, but her faith led to some...awkward discussions outside of lectures. I'm still not sure how she reconciled her faith, her chosen field of study, and her choice to attend a liberal arts university.
Well, at one of the many Catholic churches, of course.

!i!

Funny how did she cope with all the dinosaur bones in the Geology lab and how did she do on essays about geological time periods and plate techtonics.

I guess she could cover herself with a 'soandso claimed that ...' before each accepted fact.
"Geologists claim that oil bearing rock strata was laid down in the Carboniferous period c.75 million years ago (NB this is not true it was put there by God and made to look older in order to test our faith as the world is only 5000 years old)"

And I don't think American's really understand just how not at all seriously Europeans take religion. Even in Northern Ireland were the Protestants and the Catholics have been at war for 350 years no one actually goes to church or beleives in God.
A great indicator is American sitcoms. The Simpsons, the Griffins actually go to church. It would never occur to an English or Frnech writer to actually include that in a show.

Quote from: jibbajibbaFunny how did she cope with all the dinosaur bones in the Geology lab and how did she do on essays about geological time periods and plate techtonics.

I guess she could cover herself with a 'soandso claimed that ...' before each accepted fact.
"Geologists claim that oil bearing rock strata was laid down in the Carboniferous period c.75 million years ago (NB this is not true it was put there by God and made to look older in order to test our faith as the world is only 5000 years old)"

And I don't think American's really understand just how not at all seriously Europeans take religion. Even in Northern Ireland were the Protestants and the Catholics have been at war for 350 years no one actually goes to church or beleives in God.
A great indicator is American sitcoms. The Simpsons, the Griffins actually go to church. It would never occur to an English or Frnech writer to actually include that in a show.

Fundy doesn't necessarily mean Young Earther, although they often do go hand in hand.
I think you have skewed idea of America- it is a huge place, and the coasts are VERY different from the interior. Church going is pretty common in the interior, not so much on the coasts (with the possible exception of the South East) both of the shows you mention are supposed to take place in the midwest- where church going is fairly common.

Quote from: AosFundy doesn't necessarily mean Young Earther, although they often do go hand in hand.
I think you have skewed idea of America- it is a huge place, and the coasts are VERY different from the interior. Church going is pretty common in the interior, not so much on the coasts (with the possible exception of the South East) both of the shows you mention are supposed to take place in the midwest- where church going is fairly common.

No I knew the coast/midwest split its just the fact that church going is common anywhere is just amusing. I think Fundy and Young earthers are usually the same I mean the bible clearly lays out the number of generations (and in many cases the ages of the elders in those generations)  from Adam down to Jesus . You surely can't be a fundermentalist and then opt not to believe the entire Holy writ.

Quote from: AosFundy doesn't necessarily mean Young Earther, although they often do go hand in hand.
I think you have skewed idea of America- it is a huge place, and the coasts are VERY different from the interior. Church going is pretty common in the interior, not so much on the coasts (with the possible exception of the South East) both of the shows you mention are supposed to take place in the midwest- where church going is fairly common.

Yep.  I grew up in Washington State near the Idaho border, in small farming towns.  They were very conservative - everyone listened to Rush Limbaugh, being gay would not have been tolerated, and everyone voted Republican (when my father ran for sheriff as a Democrat, getting 10% of the vote was considered a success).  

And yet, religion was never that big of a deal.  A lot of people didn't regularly attend church outside of Easter/Christmas, or changed which church they went to without too much thought.  Everyone more or less believed in evolution, abortion wasn't something that was talked about but no one really opposed it strongly either, and outside of some real odd elements no one ever complained about rock music, dancing, alcohol, or gambling (in fact, many regularly visited the nearby Indian casinos).

When I moved out to the Midwest, I was surprised how different the conservative element was.  It wasn't necessarily the dominant force (Iowa, for example, is very much a swing state), but what conservatives are here are much, much more conservative.  I never saw signs in cornfields condemning abortion before, or protesters at planned parenthood clinics, or people voting down legalizing gambling based on shouts from the local pulpits, or the expectation that you go to church weekly, or a more widespread opposition to evolution.  I never saw Pentecostals or Southern Baptists before.  I even saw a church here with pictures of sinners being tossed into the flames of hell on its billboard.

And when I lived in Kansas for a couple of years, it was even worse.

Quote from: jibbajibbaNo I knew the coast/midwest split its just the fact that church going is common anywhere is just amusing. I think Fundy and Young earthers are usually the same I mean the bible clearly lays out the number of generations (and in many cases the ages of the elders in those generations)  from Adam down to Jesus . You surely can't be a fundermentalist and then opt not to believe the entire Holy writ.

Although the biblical calculation of the Earth's age can be tracked back quite a ways (it certainly predates Bishop Usher (sp?)), as recently as the turn of the last century almost no one, Christian or otherwise gave it any credence. The modern young earth movement was actually born in the first half of the 20th century. It is not  so old or universal phenomenon as you might think. I'm not trying to contradict you merely to be a dick, I actually have spent a good deal of time formally studying this topic. If you are really interested in getting a good idea of where the young earth movement comes from, and how it fits into Christianity as a whole you might take a look at this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Creationists-Scientific-Creationism-Intelligent-Expanded/dp/0674023390/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205939109&sr=8-1

Quote from: AosAlthough the biblical calculation of the Earth's age can be tracked back quite a ways (it certainly predates Bishop Usher (sp?)), as recently as the turn of the last century almost no one, Christian or otherwise gave it any credence. The modern young earth movement was actually born in the first half of the 20th century. It is not  so old or universal phenomenon as you might think. I'm not trying to contradict you merely to be a dick, I actually have spent a good deal of time formally studying this topic. If you are really interested in getting a good idea of where the young earth movement comes from, and how it fits into Christianity as a whole you might take a look at this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Creationists-Scientific-Creationism-Intelligent-Expanded/dp/0674023390/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205939109&sr=8-1

that is quite interesting but surely you are neglecting the facts ...

with the archeological landmark event of the fall of Jerusalem (which has now been corrected to 588 B.C., instead of 586-587 B.C.) and counting backwards the prophesied number of years between this event and the division of Solomon's kingdom (390 yrs. + 40 yrs., according to Ezekiel 4:4-7), brings us to 1018 B.C.

From the end of Solomon's 40-year reign to the start of the Temple in the 4th year of his reign takes us back another 37 years to 1055 B.C.

From the start of Solomon's Temple "in the 480th year" (1 Kings 6:1) back to the Exodus from Egypt (hence 479 years previous) brings us to near 1534 B.C.

From the Exodus out of Egypt to Abraham's entering Canaan from Haran was exactly 430 years to the day (Gen 12:10/ Exodus 12:40/ Gal 3:17), thus around 1964 B.C.

Since Abraham entered Canaan at age 75 (Gen 12:4), he was born approximately 2039 B.C.

From Abraham's birth to Noah's grandson (Shem's son), Arpachshad's birth, 2 years after the Flood started, was 290 years (Gen 11:11-26), this places the onset of the Flood at around 2331 B.C. [definitely 4,300-4,400 years ago].

The genealogy of Genesis 5:3-32 precludes any gaps due to its tight chronological structure and gives us 1,656 years between Creation and the Flood, thus bringing Creation Week back to near 3987 B.C. or approximately 4000 B.C.

Therefore, the biblical age of the Earth (using Scripture itself as a guide) is 6,000 years !!

Surely no self respecting Fundamentalist can dispute this facts !

Quote from: Aos...as the turn of the last century almost no one, Christian or otherwise gave it any credence.

Or did people just not think about it much. Was the age of the earth really that much in the public mind before some time late in the 19th century? Doesn't the conflict arises from collection of paleontology evidence? Before that it was really a matter of which myths you listened two and myths are somewhat more easily dismissed.

Quote from: jibbajibbaSurely no self respecting Fundamentalist can dispute this facts !

I'm not a Christian but I think it depends on how Fundy or literal you are.  One can be a conservative evangelical without taking every date literally.
 
The Catholic church has basically said that it has no position on Evolution and that the matter has little bearing on Christianity.

Quote from: blakkieOr did people just not think about it much. Was the age of the earth really that much in the public mind before some time late in the 19th century? Doesn't the conflict arises from collection of paleontology evidence? Before that it was really a matter of which myths you listened two and myths are somewhat more easily dismissed.

Actually no. It was much more than that. The learned places of the 'west' had to be convinced by the evidence of an old earth. Especially of one billions of years old. They didn't know about atomic and sub atomic processes so there was always the problem of how long the sun could burn, for a while the consensus was that it couldn't have been billions of years.

This was regardless of myth or religion.

Initially no one cared, for a long time a number of Christians viewed the Creation as an alagory. This is the standard position of the Jewish faith.
Bishop Ussher (?) in 1600 or something worked out that he earth must have been created in 4004 BC based on the timings I gave above and a few others. It was starting to get important at that point as there was a conflcit between the church and science on a lot of stuff from the Earth Centric universe to the role of the serf and Divine Kingship.
The theory was there but largely ignored and most Christians didn't fret much about it and it kind of faded away. But then American evangelicals got hold of in the 1920s and it was tied to the whole idea of fundamentalism. If you believe in the bible you have to believe all of it and you can't cherry pick. You can't be a Real Christian and believe in evolution, you can't be a Real Christian and believe that the world is 4.5 billion years old. And there you go.

My question was really I guess was this Christian girl a Young Earther and how did she reconcile that and studying Geology.

We have a great one at a diveristy training sesison where a woman (not British needless to say as we beleive in nothing except fair play and warm beer ) who was Christian basically told the trainer and the 2 gay people int eh room that they were going to hell because they sinned against God's law

funny

Quote from: AosFundy doesn't necessarily mean Young Earther, although they often do go hand in hand.

True, and perhaps I should have clarified that, though she was a fundamentalist Christian, she wasn't a Young Earther (at least not that she professed).  Still, it occasionally became evident that there were conflicts between the interpretation of her faith and the interpretation of the science.

For the record, she was nothing but pleasant in every interaction I ever had with her.  In her defense, she handled some pretty aggressive arrogance quite gracefully.  I didn't admire her the divided path she'd chosen to follow.

!i!

Quote from: jibbajibbaInitially no one cared, for a long time a number of Christians viewed the Creation as an alagory. This is the standard position of the Jewish faith.
Bishop Ussher (?) in 1600 or something worked out that he earth must have been created in 4004 BC based on the timings I gave above and a few others.

This is misleading as dating systems using the beginning of the world were common over a thousand years before that.  The later Romans and Byzantines used Anno Mundi or Etos Kosmou, estimating the beginning around 5500 BC.