Hi all,

So I have been kicking around the idea for a Mega Dungeon for awhile and decided to make it an ORS product, but had to figure some things out before tacking the project.

It's going to be OSR, using the OSRIC rules set which appears to make it pretty compatible.  Might also make it compatible for 5e later but I will need to look into how much work that will involve, whether I will need to double stat creatures/people or make a stand alone version stated for 5e.

It's going to be a large old-school dungeon, no woke crap at all (If you are WOKE you can move on, this product is not for you) and I have the overall outline for the project in place and I am just starting the writing process, but I was curious to find out what kind of things you look for in a Mega Dungeon.

Thanks

In my last mega dungeon, I had monster zones where there were related locations, events, and themes.  I also had factions that would occasionally fight each other that the party could pick sides if they were diplomatic about it.

Quote from: zircher on May 31, 2022, 10:45:20 AM
In my last mega dungeon, I had monster zones where there were related locations, events, and themes.  I also had factions that would occasionally fight each other that the party could pick sides if they were diplomatic about it.

Great idea.  I will keep this in mind.   Thanks

I like to have places that don't feel like parts of the dungeon, but instead are bastions of relative safety where rest and possibly some basic resupply can occur.

For example, part of the mega-dungeon intersects with a small dwarven enclave or the entire mega-dungeon is a ruin complex where an archeological base camp is near the center of several smaller sections (ex. it's set up in the old town square with a temple, castle, academy and undercity complexes) and has been set up by the party's employers.

Basically, a rest area where the PCs don't have to retreat all the way back to civilization if things take a bad turn. Also a place where a replacement PC might be found without having to resort to finding them imprisoned in the dungeon (that's still an option, but in the case of the base camp example, the replacement PC could either be there next time the PCs return to it or was sent to find them with either news or because they hadn't checked in recently).

Good ideas, it might also be easy to riff off of Diablo and have something like town portal scrolls to make it easier to beat a hasty retreat back to camp/town/temple.

I kind of like the idea that the Adventurer's Guild makes a big profit off of the mega dungeon by offering such services.   

Mega dungeons that are supposed to make sense are nonsensical.
"This giant castle was so awesome that it was forgotten for generations and nobody but insane adventurers go there now." Like, what?

I like the concept of a self-aware dungeon. Some kind of entity to test Humans, or something like that. There's a reason why it restocks itself and people have to start at the beginning.

So, yes, rest areas and/or fake rest areas. Non-combat rooms, in any case. It doesn't have to be stupid puzzle rooms (i.e. guess what's in my pockets). It could be magical fountains, or a series of them, for instance. Something to break up the zones/biomes of the dungeon, and also to break up the "kill them/take their stuff" play.

Definitely a Yes on dungeon inhabitants (dungeon merchants? Or servants of the dungeon, whose job is to service these rest stops?)... making the dungeon its own ecosystem of sorts.
While it could be the Adventurer's Guild inside the dungeon, maybe the Guild exists in a symbiotic relationship with the dungeon. Licensing and providing assistance in access to the dungeon's floors?
(There's a cheesy fantasy series in Amazon that I'm borrowing/stealing these ideas from. The world has these dungeons, which are magical entities themselves. The Guild sets up shop outside the dungeons, but their whole purpose is to organize and regulate access to the world's dungeons so that the dungeons are available for future adventurers.)

Make the dungeon its own living thing, an entity. Maybe a god of the game universe. (Not THE God, but a god, of course. Something divine or close to it?)

 Yeah I prefer a mega dungeon not try to make too much sense.  We can all assume some mad archmage/liche dug it out and started populating it hundreds of years ago and evil critters are drawn to it.  Maybe he was a former adventurer and knew the fastest way to get treasure and magic items is from dead adventurers?  Sort of Like Al Swearengen's line about pocketing all the gold in the gold rush but not being willing to swing a pick once.   I can even say it was in a sort of stasis till the characters entered.  But I rather not try to make too much sense of my magically powered murder hobos going down into underground constructions to kill monsters guarding loot. 

   Just let the fireworks roll.

Well, I think mega dungeons rarely work well as part of a larger campaign, which is where all the rationalization comes in.  If the mega dungeon is the campaign, then there is just enough setting on the outside to support that.  You don't need much to make it fit then, since someone had to be the first ones to go into it once the entrance got revealed. 

That presumes, of course, that the players can eventually have enough power, if only through repeated characters, to clean the thing out and thus end the campaign.  Which I find preferable to a dungeon that will restock indefinitely.  Some restocking to account for time passing is great, but a serious, dedicated group should be able to get ahead of it.

The main point is a logical reason for why it even exists. 

People I know do NOT keep their valuables at the deepest, farthest end of an underground maze lined with traps, or let monsters live there.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 31, 2022, 05:35:49 PM
The main point is a logical reason for why it even exists. 

People I know do NOT keep their valuables at the deepest, farthest end of an underground maze lined with traps, or let monsters live there.

  Well...there are people who keep valuables in a safe in a secret portion of their houses (with alarms that protect said safe) and have armed guards and attack dogs on their estates.  You could argue they also have bunkers and extravagant basements (if they have the sort of money to have full security details) and their houses are like mazes.....  If I add underground Nazi Bunkers with treasure rooms from people they murdered....

Greetings!

Megadungeons are not logical?

In a fantasy world that typically has vast, vast subterranean worlds featuring hordes of all kinds of monsters, as well as entire tribes and powerful armies of subterranean dwelling warriors, whether such are fish men, Drow Elves, Lizard Men, Troglodytes, Goblins, Orcs, and more--you think having strong subterranean fortifications--dungeons--established is somehow "unrealistic" or "Unreasonable"?

Every fortress, large temple, monastery, and even border forts would likely have some kind of subterranean fortress defenses and dungeons dug under them in such an environment.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I think many of the previous ideas, like having someplace to rest & recover without a long trek back to civilization, are good ones.  Another piece of advice I have is keep the factions fairly limited and don't overburden it with an enormous backstory & meta-plot that might be hard for DMs to integrate into their own campaigns.  Arden Vul is guilty of both these sins making it virtually unplayable in my opinion despite some very cool features.  But you don't need 2-3 pages of detailed historical description for your rooms/encounter areas.  Dwimmermount is guilty of of the latter sin, among other things.  In my opinion, more than 3 major factions is too many.  It doesn't mean there can't be other independent actors, rival adventuring parties, etc., but keep the big bads to just a few groups.  I'd also strongly encourage putting full monster stat blocks, including XP values, right in the text rather than gathering them at the back.  If you're using OSRIC the stat blocks won't be huge.  As someone who does track XP, I just like that much more than flipping all over to find stats, xp, etc.

And embrace the idea of the dungeon being the center of the campaign.  I think a certain type of player (like me) likes the tent-pole dungeon concept.  In fact, just this morning I was thinking of designing another mega-dungeon for my campaign that would literally be a tent-pole mega-dungeon.  Mysterious circus appears, adventurers get lured into the Big Top and find themselves trapped in a mega-dungeon.  Now they need to find their way out.  Of course the big bad is some kind of evil clown lich, with his minions being directed by an Insane Clown Posse.  Yeah, I know ASE has a bit of this going on, but I'd make it bigger & deadlier.

So take your idea and just go to 11 with it.

I am genuinely more interested in a gauntlet than a dungeon proper. Rather than a series of rooms with each being an encounter, I like a series of encounters constrained by the environment. Less of a door A leads to room A and more of a choice B leads to encounter B although mechanically it may be the same encounter. Beyond that, I like some sense of why is here and what was it created to do. It needs to be good at whatever it was created to do to justify its existence and breaking up a mob of enemies that would overwhelm the party into a series of manageable rooms is not a sensible design for the dungeon builder. A backstory to the dungeon itself, learning which is optional, but beneficial to making smarter dungeoneering choices is a good feature too.

Quote from: Wisithir on May 31, 2022, 08:21:26 PM
I am genuinely more interested in a gauntlet than a dungeon proper. Rather than a series of rooms with each being an encounter, I like a series of encounters constrained by the environment. Less of a door A leads to room A and more of a choice B leads to encounter B although mechanically it may be the same encounter. Beyond that, I like some sense of why is here and what was it created to do. It needs to be good at whatever it was created to do to justify its existence and breaking up a mob of enemies that would overwhelm the party into a series of manageable rooms is not a sensible design for the dungeon builder. A backstory to the dungeon itself, learning which is optional, but beneficial to making smarter dungeoneering choices is a good feature too.

  I always thought that the way sounds would carry underground off stone would mean any alarm system at all would bring hordes upon the characters from any fight lasting more than seconds.  I have designed a "dungeon" before where that was what happened, a couple of humanoids at a guard section of the complex rang the bell, and the ensuing fight was epic.  Basically 6 encounter areas or so got smashed into the hall way at both ends.  It was strange.  One huge epic fight and the dungeon was essentially "over".  AOE magic and a very competent pair of warriors stopping up the hole made the huge fight easier than the encounters separately.  It did make the "final" encounter (which essentially was the second one, since everyone had piled in on the first fight) more challenging though, as the BBEG took the time to observe the party's strengths and weaknesses and prepare accordingly with his elite guard and magic. 

  In the end he was cut down with a crit (it was GURPS and the swordsman made a critical hit to the BBEG's neck and it was a wrap) but without that crit it was looking like a wipe in progress.  It was a lot of fun, and I try to have that sort of thing in a complex about every 8-10 games or so.  Did a similar thing with Mutant Epoch, but assault rifles and lasers with a few grenades made it a cake walk for the group.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 31, 2022, 05:35:49 PM
The main point is a logical reason for why it even exists. 

People I know do NOT keep their valuables at the deepest, farthest end of an underground maze lined with traps, or let monsters live there.

There is a logical reason for this Dungeon to exist.  I can't get into that right now, but this has been pretty much planned out.  I am just looking for additional things to add.to the dungeon.