Looks like I put my foot into it over on tBP on the Designers Notes thread. I really dislike them and think they are a total waste of time. On request, I wrote some for one of my games and gagged the whole time. Designers can post in fora, write a blog - heck, they can write a pdf to show the world their utter genius! They can even sell it if anyone wants to buy it! Why stuff it into a game? IMO, if it's rules, it doesn't belong in designer's notes - it belongs with the rules. If it's setting, it belongs with the setting info. Anything else is sheer puffery and not worth using as anything but kindling.

Do you guys like these things?

How does it help you play the game?

If it doesn't help you play the game, what use is it?

-clash

I absolutely love good designer notes. No hollow self-praising and mockeries of other games, of course.

It's always helpful to know the reasonings behind certain design decisions. It can help to grasp how certain rules help which use isn't obvious without playing the game as a whole. And it helps while creating houserule when you can clearly see what is salvageable, what is essential to the gaming experience and what rules are strongly interconnected with other rule complexes.

I like them insofar as they give insights to the reader about how the various systems are meant to be used, what the author is trying to emulate or accomplish, etc.  Basically, I want to know how the author envisions their game in play so I can figure out if it's compatible with my playstyle.

Designer's notes don't have to be a chapter on their own, though.  They can be sprinkled liberally throughout the rules (in chapter introductions, for example, or maybe as footnotes).

Stuff like this can help me understand seemingly obscure or strange rules and help me understand how everything is meant to fit together.  Especially when it comes to more complex game systems.

I always considered them just a subset of the rules, clarifiers if you will.  Sometimes it's interesting to see why "x" is as it is, especially if it helps me figure something out in gameplay.  But again, there are other venues for that.  Keep my RPG tight and straighforward.  If your designers notes are intrusive or take up too much room, I likely don't want 'em.

In the last couple of years I've completely reversed my opinion on designer's notes in RPGs.  I used to think they were a great idea because the designer could just come out and explain their thinking behind the game.  Now I'm more of the opion that if a designer can't get their point across without stepping from behind the curtain, then they need to go back and rewrite the rules.  In short, nowadays I suspect that designer's notes are a crutch meant to prop up unclear game writing.

OK- I've never considered (foot)notes with rules explanations as Designer's Notes. Those are dang useful, but I consider them as part of the rules. What I was thinking of was the 'whole chapter o' notes' thang.

-clash

BTW, this thread's general opinion is exactly the reverse of the one on tBP.

Who'd a thunk it?

-clash

It really depends on how they're written. If it's a long discourse on what led the writer to create the game, it's generally boring and useless.
 
If it talks briefly about intents, alternatives, and expansions, it's useful.
 
The page count of it is important to consider, especially in a printed book (pdf, I just forego printing that section). A page or two is forgivable, more than that, I'm getting ripped off by author hubris.

Quote from: SkyrockI absolutely love good designer notes. No hollow self-praising and mockeries of other games, of course.

It's always helpful to know the reasonings behind certain design decisions. It can help to grasp how certain rules help which use isn't obvious without playing the game as a whole. And it helps while creating houserule when you can clearly see what is salvageable, what is essential to the gaming experience and what rules are strongly interconnected with other rule complexes.

What if those reasonings were integrated with the rules section rather than being separated out in the DN?

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceWhat if those reasonings were integrated with the rules section rather than being separated out in the DN?
 
-clash

That tends to be better - something to consider while figuring out the rules rather than the secret answers hidden at the end.

I love designers notes in wargames, which explain why and which considerations were made and which side was taken in scholarly disputes regarding military history, numbers, effectiveness etc.
Because you can´t judge a model if you don´t know what was going to be modelled.

I don't mind a sidebar that explains the working of a rule and the implications of changing it.

Beyond that, I'm in agreement with Clash. The current standard format of "Designers Notes" is usually just a big blog post in printed form, usually about how great you think you are.

Ideally: the rules stand alone 100%, and the designer's notes are brief, simply written (though perhaps more casually than the rules text), and left to optional sidebars. The designer's notes should be more like "I figured this X here does the Y, neat huh?", either telling me how to plug the most awesome X into the game, or to hint at how to hack around with X to make it do Z, or (sometimes, and only carefully), to justify why X is X or why you shouldn't try to make X go to Z.

Although, here's a more simple rubric: they must make me smile, and otherwise not get in the way of the rules.

I like 'em.  I like reading gaming books for entertainment, and they add to the entertainment value.

-O

Quote from: flyingmiceWhat if those reasonings were integrated with the rules section rather than being separated out in the DN?

-clash

That works very well, better than a separate chapter, IMO.

To use an example where it works: my favorite wargame is the original Squad Leader and its expansions.  The expansions had a huge amount of DN, but they were given as discrete portions of text at the beginning of each major rules section to explain the intent of what was immediately following.  This worked very well to not only improve reading flow (vs. having a big summation at the end of the rulebook), but allowed the designers to present their intent in finer detail.