Designer Professionalism, Courtesy: Does It Factor With You?

jrients · January 16, 2007, 07:14:25 AM

The hobby has enough designers who are both talented and nice as to make dealing with primadonnas completely unnecessary.

Imperator · January 17, 2007, 05:29:16 AM

Quote from: JimBobOzWick and Sorensen are cocksmocks, of that there can be no doubt. What that has to do with their games I have no idea.

Let's imagine that I see on the bookshelf in the gamestore the Game Of My Dreams. I know that if I buy it and run it, it'll lead to my Best Campaign Ever. Everyone will have fun, be happy, and remember it for years afterwards.

Am I going to deprive myself of that pleasure just because I don't like the writer personally? That's like the old saying, "cutting off your nose to spite your face." Why? So he won't get ten bucks? I'll miss out on hours and hours of entertainment and fun just to deprive some idiot of ten bucks?

On the other hand, if it's just an ordinary game, not that great or crap either way, then... well why the fuck am I buying an ordinary game anyway? Have I got money to throw away on ordinary stuff? Nope! I keep my money for good stuff! If I have some spare, I'll spend it on more cheetos or helping the homeless or something.

So, either you liked the book and hated the authour, or you are indifferent to/hated the book and also hated the authour. If you like the book, then by not buying it, you're punishing yourself more than the authour; if you are indifferent to or didn't like the book, you shouldn't be buying it anyway.

What he said. My fun is what that matters. I like Sorcerer, and I have good times with it. I don't like Ron Edwards' behaviour on Internet. I don't give a fuck about the guy, I want the game and the fun.

It's nice, of course, when you talk to people like Mr. Stafford on the web and they're nice and courteous, and that's fantastic. But it's not determining in the least for me. My fun goes first.

Franklin · January 17, 2007, 06:21:30 AM

Ive only met a couple of so-called games designers at UK conventions but they have, to a man, all been elitist wankers. No time for the people whjo actually buy and play their games. No interest in what the public has to say about the games.

Thanks
Frank

GRIM · January 17, 2007, 07:07:04 AM

Actually, I forgot one other guy that did annoy me.
The bloke behind Hero games was on a panel with me at Dragonmeet and I found him pretty arrogant, barely letting the rest of the panel get a word in and trying to dominate the discussion.

Not that I buy Hero products anyway, but it left a bad impression on me.

fonkaygarry · January 17, 2007, 07:43:42 AM

I'm with Rients on this one. There are enough good people in this business that we can safely ignore the shitasses and still have a good time.

JohnWick · January 17, 2007, 12:09:47 PM

Quote from: J ArcaneWick, unheilig, IronRa, and a number of other RPGnetters were at one point hard at work on a game called Primeval, which was a wierd sort of ancient fantasy game, borrowing a lot from Egyptian and Greek and other mythologies of that era.

It was a hugely anticipated project, and everyone on RPGnet just about was waiting for it with bated breath. A number of RPGnetters even contributed photos of themselves for art reference.

Then it went quiet. We didn't hear about it for some time. Apparently what had happened was that Wick had just ditched them half way through the project, and run off and rushed out some other game that was almost exactly the same concept. At that point unheilig basically just gave up, as the project was a mess, and to top it off Wick had basically stolen the idea and ran off to market with it.

It was an unbelievably shitty thing to do. There was a wierd sort of strained public amends-making between them when it came up sometime later, and of course, Wick denies that Primeval had anything to do with his project.

But frankly Wick's proven himself time and time again to be a goddamn liar, so by and large that whole exchange seemed mostly for show.

I don't even like unheilig, in fact I would go so far as to say he was one of my absolute least favorite posters on that site. But I wouldn't wish that shit on anyone, and what they had announced of the game and the concept sounded fucking awesome to boot.

Hi there.

unheilig and I settled this a long time ago. I sent him a copy of Enemy Gods, he looked through it and said, "Gee, this doesn't look anything like Primeval," and said so on rpg.net.

I'd suggest doing a little bit more research before making accusations like saying I'm a goddamn liar and a plagiarist. Plagiarism is a crime and saying someone is guilty of it on in public forum is libel. Also a crime. Please reconsider your claim.

John Wick

jrients · January 17, 2007, 12:52:40 PM

Wick, get your own shit together before making counter accusations. Whether a statement is libellous or not can depend on the jurisdiction where the action is brought, and some jurisdictions allow good faith that the statement was true as a defense.

Serious Paul · January 17, 2007, 12:53:56 PM

Has there ever been a case of libel against an individual user on the internet? I mean seriously, who would try that case?

Warthur · January 17, 2007, 01:00:41 PM

Quote from: JohnWickI'd suggest doing a little bit more research before making accusations like saying I'm a goddamn liar and a plagiarist. Plagiarism is a crime and saying someone is guilty of it on in public forum is libel. Also a crime. Please reconsider your claim.

In addition to jrients' point: while there are exceptions, in most nations libel is a civil matter, not a crime. That's why people who lose libel trials pay compensation to the plaintiff - they don't get fined by the courts or sent to jail.

EDIT TO ADD: For what it's worth I don't support the claim that you "stole" Primeval. I do believe the claim that you abandoned or drifted away from the project, and I do think it would have been professional courtesy to inform the Primeval team that you were going to come out with a game with a concept which is similar to the untrained eye (despite being actually very different according to all parties), but those are different issues.

Gabriel · January 17, 2007, 01:10:31 PM

FUCKING PROTECT YOURSELF!

Zachary The First · January 17, 2007, 01:11:14 PM

And teh internet drama goes into full swing.

JongWK · January 17, 2007, 01:18:30 PM

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist it.

Zachary The First · January 17, 2007, 01:27:11 PM

Quote from: JongWKI'm sorry, I couldn't resist it.

Damn. Beat me to it. First thing I thought about.

jrients · January 17, 2007, 01:28:38 PM

Quote from: WarthurEDIT TO ADD: For what it's worth I don't support the claim that you "stole" Primeval. I do believe the claim that you abandoned or drifted away from the project, and I do think it would have been professional courtesy to inform the Primeval team that you were going to come out with a game with a concept which is similar to the untrained eye (despite being actually very different according to all parties), but those are different issues.

I agree. I'd also like to note that the record, as linked by Gabriel, goes pretty far to support the notion that Mr. Wick, while not a plagiarist, is a "goddamn liar" (to use his own term).

Ian Absentia · January 17, 2007, 01:36:19 PM

Quote from: JohnWickI'd suggest doing a little bit more research before making accusations like saying I'm a goddamn liar and a plagiarist.

The accusation that you're a complete weenie stands, though.

!i!