Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAnd, as long as we're resorting to tired clichés, two wrongs don't make a right.

!i!

I wasn't suggesting that two wrongs make a right. Instead, I was saying this:

I have been accused of being a liar using the definitions listed above. And, because I am a liar, I must be a bad person.

Liar = bad person.

All right. But using those same definitions above, I can make a valid and strong argument that every person on the planet is "a liar." And if liar = bad person, then every person on the planet is a bad person, which does not isolate me for moral critique.

If I lied to cause harm, that would be one thing. Lying, in and of itself, is not immoral. The intent to do harm is.

That is why our legal system differentiates between manslaughter and murder. One is accidental (with no intent) and the other is intentional. There are even different degrees of murder, depending on the degree of the intent.

Pointing at me and shouting "Liar!" really doesn't mean anything to me. Yes, I've told lies in my life. Every human on the planet has. But lying with the intent to cause harm falls under the scope of immorality. Just shouting "Liar!" doesn't qualify.

Hi John,

Welcome to theRPGsite.. I hope you can handle the sometimes tough cowboy atmosphere of the place, and decide to stay around and join in on other conversations.  It strikes me that you don't shy from controversy, you aren't a delicate special snowflake, so if you can get past the fact that there are a few people here who seem to have some issues with you, I hope you will find you like the place and its atmosphere and join in on the fun.

I hope you take these comments as they are intended, totally on the level.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jrientsDude, you can do better than that.  Name names and quote quotes.  Most of us don't usually talk about "some of you" around here.  We say things like "Hey, Jeff.  You're being too hard on Wick for that one stupid prank."

Nah, I simply don't feel it's worth it to call each individual asshole on his childish and cowardly behavior.

At this point, I'm simply wondering where the hell I'm going to find a decent RPG forum because everywhere I look, it just doesn't cut it.

So J.Wick rubs some you the wrong way.  So he "lied" and "is a dick" (I'm paraphrasing here, just roll with me).

So. Fucking. What.

Does the guy produce games? Yes.  Which, regardless of whether you like them or not, is kind of important to the hobby.

Has he done anything which has harmed or impacted upon you personally and directly ( I don't mean disagreed with you on the 'net)?  If the answer is yes then your the only people I'm interested in reading about.  
Everyone else jumping on the bandwagon is a dick, and yet here I was thinking RPG.net had the monopoly on gutless wankers.  
Maybe it's a gamer thing, X% are gutless, whinging, toerags .

Quote from: StumpydaveSo J.Wick rubs some you the wrong way. So he "lied" and "is a dick" (I'm paraphrasing here, just roll with me).
 

Basically, John, welcome home.

Quote from: StumpydaveSo J.Wick rubs some you the wrong way.  So he "lied" and "is a dick" (I'm paraphrasing here, just roll with me).

So. Fucking. What.

Does the guy produce games? Yes.  Which, regardless of whether you like them or not, is kind of important to the hobby.

I totally approve of this attitude.  As far as I'm concerned John Wick is as welcome here as anybody else.  Zachary's right, this place should be perfect for his online persona.

QuoteHas he done anything which has harmed or impacted upon you personally and directly ( I don't mean disagreed with you on the 'net)?  If the answer is yes then your the only people I'm interested in reading about.

Here's God's honest truth:  I am hung up on that stupid prank he pulled.  I can't get over it.  It hurt.  I was one of the fools who felt great sympathy for Jared's plight and I thought Wick's passionate "Fucking protect yourself!" was real.  Thinking about it even all this time later makes me mad at myself for believing such a load of crap, mad at Wick and Sorensen for pulling the stunt, but mostly just hurt.  And I feel like a total tool for still limping over it so long after the fact, but there it is.

Maybe that's not enough for my opinion to matter to you Stumpydave, but it sure feels real to me.

Quote from: jrientsHere's God's honest truth:  I am hung up on that stupid prank he pulled.  I can't get over it.  It hurt.  I was one of the fools who felt great sympathy for Jared's plight and I thought Wick's passionate "Fucking protect yourself!" was real.  Thinking about it even all this time later makes me mad at myself for believing such a load of crap, mad at Wick and Sorensen for pulling the stunt, but mostly just hurt.  And I feel like a total tool for still limping over it so long after the fact, but there it is.

Bingo!

That was a real craptacular thing to do.

Quote from: jrientsHere's God's honest truth:  I am hung up on that stupid prank he pulled.  I can't get over it.  It hurt.  I was one of the fools who felt great sympathy for Jared's plight and I thought Wick's passionate "Fucking protect yourself!" was real.  Thinking about it even all this time later makes me mad at myself for believing such a load of crap, mad at Wick and Sorensen for pulling the stunt, but mostly just hurt.  And I feel like a total tool for still limping over it so long after the fact, but there it is.

Maybe that's not enough for my opinion to matter to you Stumpydave, but it sure feels real to me.

*Puts on Shinsei hat*

Two monks, a master and a student, walk through a terrible storm on their way back to the monastery. On their way, they come across a river, swelled by the storm, raging along. On their side of the river, a young woman sits crying. The monks approach the girl, the master asking, "What is wrong?"

"It is cold and I am lost," she says. "I know the way home, but it is on the other side of the river."

The master picks up the girl and swims across the river. The younger monk follows. On the other side, the master sets the girl down. She thanks him and runs home.

For the rest of the day, the apprentice seems on the edge of a question, but he says nothing. Not even when they arrive at their destination, drying off from the storm. He remains silent.

Finally, the master asks, "What is your question?"

The younger monk says, "Master, I have never questioned your wisdom and value your teachings."

The older monk says, "What is your question?"

The younger monk finally says, "We have both taken a vow of celibacy. A vow to never touch a woman's flesh. And yet, you carried that woman on your back. How could you break your vow of celibacy?"

The old master said, "I put her down at the riverside. Why are you still carrying her?"

*takes off Shinsei hat*

Oh.  You were so totally schooled, Jeff.

!i!

(P.S. You mangled that parable, John.)

I think Mr. Wick and Mr. Sorensen pulled a prank in poor taste, I also think Mr. Wick took it too far after Mr. Sorensen backed off.

I laughed when I found out it was a joke...but the joke was on me, which kinda sucks, but not enough to dislike either party.

Plus, my cousin Randy knew Mr. Wick personally, and based on stories of Mr. Wick's offline personalty, leads me to believe that although not partaking in the peculiar anonymity afforded to the medium (as I myself do not), is taking part in the emotional disconnect inherent to it (as I myself sometimes do).

In other words, he's being an ass on the internet because he doesn't have to be an ass to someone's face, which politeness would otherwise negate.

Quote from: JohnWick*Puts on Shinsei hat*

Two monks, a master and a student, walk through a terrible storm on their way back to the monastery. On their way, they come across a river, swelled by the storm, raging along. On their side of the river, a young woman sits crying. The monks approach the girl, the master asking, "What is wrong?"

"It is cold and I am lost," she says. "I know the way home, but it is on the other side of the river."

The master picks up the girl and swims across the river. The younger monk follows. On the other side, the master sets the girl down. She thanks him and runs home.

For the rest of the day, the apprentice seems on the edge of a question, but he says nothing. Not even when they arrive at their destination, drying off from the storm. He remains silent.

Finally, the master asks, "What is your question?"

The younger monk says, "Master, I have never questioned your wisdom and value your teachings."

The older monk says, "What is your question?"

The younger monk finally says, "We have both taken a vow of celibacy. A vow to never touch a woman's flesh. And yet, you carried that woman on your back. How could you break your vow of celibacy?"

The old master said, "I put her down at the riverside. Why are you still carrying her?"

*takes off Shinsei hat*

I have to admit that was pretty damn good.

:respect:

Quote from: RPGPunditHi John,

Welcome to theRPGsite.. I hope you can handle the sometimes tough cowboy atmosphere of the place, and decide to stay around and join in on other conversations.  It strikes me that you don't shy from controversy, you aren't a delicate special snowflake, so if you can get past the fact that there are a few people here who seem to have some issues with you, I hope you will find you like the place and its atmosphere and join in on the fun.

I hope you take these comments as they are intended, totally on the level.

RPGPundit

I am a delicate special snowflake motherfucker.  

Quote from: joewolzPlus, my cousin Randy knew Mr. Wick personally...

Randy who?

Quote from: jrientsHere's God's honest truth:  I am hung up on that stupid prank he pulled.  I can't get over it.  It hurt.  I was one of the fools who felt great sympathy for Jared's plight and I thought Wick's passionate "Fucking protect yourself!" was real.  Thinking about it even all this time later makes me mad at myself for believing such a load of crap, mad at Wick and Sorensen for pulling the stunt, but mostly just hurt.  And I feel like a total tool for still limping over it so long after the fact, but there it is.

Maybe that's not enough for my opinion to matter to you Stumpydave, but it sure feels real to me.

Was it just hurt feelings or did you lose money or something as well?

I appreciate you bluntly expressing what your problem is. I'm sure some person will tell you that it's "your fault and you should have seen the prank coming" but the truth is, it happens to all of us.

What I don't understand is the subsequent sentiment. So, you felt like a fool, which is ok. But it made you really mad, and still does today? Dude, it happens to all of us.

You weren't robbed, you weren't hurt, insulted or anything.

Jared's shtick, from his time at the Gaming Outpost onward has always been the mixing of media (in atrocious fashion, but that's just me). The prank-promotion was a natural extension of that and nicely played, I thought.

I fail to see the harm. Show me someone who has never been at the receiving end of a prank and I'll show you someone who must have a very boring and sanitized life.

Jared even offered anyone who wanted so a refund, should they have bought out of sympathy. Something I felt he didn't have to do.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOh.  You were so totally schooled, Jeff.

Intention was not to "school" anyone. I thought the story was appropriate.

Quote from: Ian Absentia(P.S. You mangled that parable, John.)

How?