*Very* Fan-boyish.

Some people there were really cool though, and rather helpful to boot. But the masses killed it for me. Much like ENworld. Meh.

What do you mind wrong about the default character builds?

-=Grim=-

Quote from: GrimJesta;235597What do you mind wrong about the default character builds?

Well, first off- it's a matter of taste for the most part. But I think HERO feeds the oft-stated comment that HERO can't do gritty very well because of it. The worst issue is that they insist on using the same defaults...

On to details, and this is a short list.


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Allowing BODY to range from 1-20 as the human normal does a number of things that I don't like. Since the optional rules for impairing and disabling are based upon that number- the required weapon damage needed to provide a good chance of doing either grows to large to remain in the same 'human' range. This is even worse if you extend the 'exceptional' human range to 30 as the default rules do.

I fix the builds to a 9-11 range for normal humans (12 as the top end max). The result is that the rifle damage baseline given in the rules actually start to act like rifles.

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The exceptional Range for the other stats (i.e., humans can buy it at double cost over the normal range) going up to 30 is too much. It expands the CV range too much away from average and has equal impact in other areas.

I fix the top human value at 25 to control this.


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The standard assumption in HERO for Superheros for SPD and DEX used to be SPD 5 and DEX 23. I'm not sure what it is now, but it's either the same or has grown larger.

I fixed that to SPD 4 and DEX 18 to move them closer to human. IMO (and for Marvel style games) the difference between skilled humans and Superheroes is not combat speed and/or skill- but powers. So I think the focus should be there. Helps cut on the END impact noted at the start of the thread as well.

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HERO tends to use low Defenses compared to the attacks. They do this so that even low damage characters can damage high defense villians. To offset this they use higher values for CON and STUN than I do.

Yes, that means some characters can't damage some targets without special effect or abilities. But to me that's matching the source material.

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I've completely reworked firearms in an attempt to make them both more realistic and more dangerous to the typical man in the street. I also upped the DC for melee weapons by 1 for the same reasons.

This moves kill attacks from something not that far from D&D (i.e., it takes multiple strikes to bring down even the average man on average) to something closer to... oh original Runequest.


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Since Long took over the line, there is a strong bias for paying for what IMO should the special effects of some of the standard powers.

For example:

Rather than allowing a character with stretching to simply stretch his head over the corner of the building to look around it- Long requires on to buy Clairsentience with limits to do the same thing.

Rather than allowing a superstrong character to bend bars around someone to entangle them (I can't think of a comic brick that hasn't used this one)- Long wants you to buy Entange with limits.

And so on. He seems more interested in point costs and clever builds than he is game play with these.

I do very little of this- only for near signature moves for certain characters that other similar ones don't do.



And that's a start.

Is Long the dude doing 5e? I only play 4e. I like some of the changes you made and am considering incorporating them, especially the Norm and Super stat ranges.

Clairsentience to look around a corner...um... when you have Stretching? Bullshit.

-=Grim=-

Quote from: GrimJesta;236282Is Long the dude doing 5e? I only play 4e.

Long did a few supplements for at least 4th edition back in the day. He then bought all or part (I forget which) of HERO Games when the original owners had enough.

At that point he did 5th edition. As an editor (i.e. combining all the text into one book in a rational way with a good index)- he excels. And he also produces like a book rabbit in heat, although he takes full advantage of cut and paste to do so.

He has stated that he's started work on 6th edition, and that he is now free to make whatever changes he wishes. Fifth edition may be the last version I use depending upon the nature of those changes.