Just saw the first episode of the new SyFy channel series Defiance. Okay so special effects and makeup aren't state of the art, but damn it's fun. More to the point it's so reminds me of Gamma World, with the mix of post-apocalyptic aesthetics, super-science and mix of strange races and monsters. It is certainly prime roleplaying fodder.
Of that comes from the fact that the series is tied in with a computer game; a horrifying concept to the purist but you can see why it might appeal to gamers.
It is pretty good. I don't mind the costumes and special effects not being Farscape level(that's a large part of why the series was so expensive and had to be cancelled in spite of still being relatively popular at the time). They are good enough, and what they don't spend on that can be used to, y'know, keep the series from being cancelled if it proves popular enough, hopefully.
I saw the commercials for the video game. I'm pretty sure you won't need to play the game to follow the story of the show. It's more of an MMO shooter thing than anything else. Looks fun, but not sure how it compares to Planetside 2.
Wait, there's a science fiction show on ScyFy? How did that happen?!
Quote from: danbuter;646543Wait, there's a science fiction show on ScyFy? How did that happen?!
I guess you can only do so many monster movies with dime-store-effects, z-grade actors, and laughably stupid scripts. They've been doing that 24/7 for what 5 fucking years now?
Quote from: danbuter;646543Wait, there's a science fiction show on ScyFy? How did that happen?!
They never stopped. At the moment they have Defiance, Lost Girl, Being Human(since they went a different direction than the UK version after a few episodes, I think it's quite worth it), Warehouse 13, Continuum, are the US premiere spot for new episodes of Merlin, and Haven is still going(and is actually really good; I just wish they did more than 13 episodes per season).
I mean, yeah, some of their highest profile shows ended, and they went through a period there where they weren't doing nearly as much good stuff and took those stupid Z-movies(not even hilariously bad in the B movie sense) to all new heights. But . . . they always had something decent at least, and seem to finally be bouncing back.
I didn't mind it, but I did think the writing, at least as of the first episode, needs a lot of tightening if they want to make a hit out of it. I mean, they obviously do, given the amount of work going into background details like language (at least according to their marketing...).
I can take one minor subplot, which appears to exist simply to set up the premise of the future series (yes, that's your spoiler warning, folks):
So the main dude is a wandering wanderer, with his car with no name (actualy: Given the hype isn't his car supposed to be special? That wasn't the car they've been hyping, seems sort of... awkward... to bring in a special supercar after the first episode...), and his adopted daughter alien. Whatever. Rolls into St Louis/Defiance, apparently at random DESPITE being one of the "Defiant Few' the god damn place is FUCKIGN NAMED FOR!!!! (sorry...)
And about half an hour in, the sheriff is killed almost entirely at random during a bar fight. And then, at the end of the episode after some weak drama-llama moments, he comes back to town to save it from certain distruction... and is made sheriff.
See: That's sort of weak writing. Brining in an outside character, a stranger, allows us to get introduced to everything that's new and strange, with plenty of exposition because the stranger is a proxy audience member. Only, in this case we're given everything we need to know about Defiance entirely seperately from this, and the Main Dude pretty much knows everything he needs to know already. A stronger start would just have him BE the sheriff of Defiance already, saving us a lot of wasted effort moving peices around (and random murders in bars that aren't otherwise plot relevant as far as I could see... I suspect the 'traitor' was supposed to do it, but why?) to get him to that point.
It would take roughly the same amount of time, maybe less, to explain the 'alien daughter/side kick' thing, so thats a wash, and you wouldn't waste time building up a character that's gonna disappear less than halfway through the episode anyway. I mean, they already had a murder for him to solve, and they pretty much forgot the sheriff after that. They could have used that time, say, to show the Spirit Riders (who were a lot more plot relevant) more, both before and after they played US Cavalry.
I could go on with weak writing, but I won't. I'm pretty happy with most of the acting and some of teh characterizations, and they did put a lot of effort into world building... effort that could have been replicated in demonstrating it, so I'm going to give it a few episodes to sink or swim.
I mean: If it weren't for Claudia Black I wouldn't have made episode 2 of Farscape and I fucking loved that show (I never DID warm up to Ben Browder... not until I saw him on Stargate later. Seriously, I always hated Crighton)
Quote from: danbuter;646543Wait, there's a science fiction show on ScyFy? How did that happen?!
I
know, right?
JG
I'm pretty sure Adventure Time is already the Gamma World TV show.
Quote from: LibraryLass;646585I'm pretty sure Adventure Time is already the Gamma World TV show.
That's a pretty good candidate too. Although I don't know if there's a mutation that causes your body to be composed of bubblegum.
JG
My friend's 10 year old son really loves Adventure Time and I just keep thinking "kid, in college you are really gonna love shrooms."
Quote from: danbuter;646543Wait, there's a science fiction show on ScyFy? How did that happen?!
I remain hopeful they will someday banish the horror of Wrestling, John Edwards, and Paranormal Shlock from living memory.
I might torrent the show, buyt the script used in the game was awful.
And the game itself is bland.
It won't last.
Quote from: Bill;646661I remain hopeful they will someday banish the horror of Wrestling, John Edwards, and Paranormal Shlock from living memory.
I'm afraid there's still an awful lot of paranormal shlock on that channel.
I'd have to see the show to judge.
However, for this thread to stay on this forum, it needs to somehow be about RPGs, and not the show itself. If all the conversation here ends up being about the show, then its going to be moved.
RPGPundit
Its a bit hard, given that we have all of one episode to go by, but I'll give it a shot. (Caveat: The online game apparently does expand the setting... a little bit...)
Setting wise we have a post apocalyptic earth that is settling into a new 'wild west' sort of civilization already. By default we have a good, relatively safe city as a setting.
THis particular apocalypse is somewhat unique; A failed terraforming attempt by very humanlike alien invaders (the seven races of... um... something), resulting in a world not truly earthlike, and not truly alien but a mad libs version of the same (so...Gamma world?). We see mouse-wolf-spiders in the opening episode, big pack hunter critters, and the website for the game suggests 'mutants' along with some sort of killer alien bugs and killer robots.
Races:
Well, we have eight main races to go on. Human, of course, then the human-like pale dudes, who may have been the caste-leaders of the invasion, a wookie-analog with less hair, a cyborg-lizard albino race that does a lot of science and medical stuff, an mini-hairless wookie servant caste and the Ihataie? the nose-brow people, who apparently were a sort of violent underclass that broke off and went tribal (spirit riders) after the Pale Wars. We don't have much information to go on, yet, as to how the alien culture worked.
Also: The Volg, which apparently are part of the seven races, but aren't. So when Julie Benz talks about peace between teh eight races (Seven plus humanity) the Volg aren't actually counted (So? Seven races? Eight alien species? Its unclear...). The Volg are basically space orcs, possibly genetically engineered killing machines that lack true volition based on the idea that a volg invasion has to have been sent by Someone Else, since the Volg wouldn't have done that on their own. Note too that the Volg apparently use an alloy in their weapons that none of the other races do, enabling their gear to be readily identified. (plot anvil, much?)
The aliens do use energy weapons in their technology, from energy switchblades to 'cold fire' guns, but their other tech requires the albino lizards to interface properly to use.
There is an Earth Federation somewhere that pays good money for alien tech, has a strong industrial base, and they use it for leverage to get other communities under their control.
Artifact hunting is a major industry, as ships falling from orbit become resources (Arkfall, Arkhunters, both from teh game and the show...)
I could see pulling this off with somethign deadland-y, maybe starting with the green book classic Deadlands post-apoc. Doubly so, since the game at least implies that alien artifacts can be implanted to allow for SFX powers.
Quote from: Bill;646661I remain hopeful they will someday banish the horror of Wrestling, John Edwards, and Paranormal Shlock from living memory.
I was just ranting about John Edwards to my colleagues today, finishing up with "If I want to watch fiction passing as real, I'd watch Fox News, not ScyFy..."
Quote from: Doom;647127I was just ranting about John Edwards to my colleagues today, finishing up with "If I want to watch fiction passing as real, I'd watch Fox News, not ScyFy..."
People think Fox News is real!?:eek:
As a gaming setting, it fulfills much the same idea as Gamma World, but changing the cause of the Apocalypse from "humanity did their usual things.." to "aliens did it."
What we see is that the alien tech is advanced, more so it seems than the humans of the time, however, the humans were able to fight off the aliens a bit, which suggests that we may have had comparable tech that wasn't shown, or that the higher tech stuff was reserved for certain castes. It appears the aliens were some sort of alliance as they don't appear related, albeit the Pale Ones and the Ilraithi? Are similar enough to be different castes of the same race.
I'm not sure we know enough yet to apply it to gaming, it could be used for Gamma World origin, and just assume the aliens are mutants (writing them up) or Atomic Highway could be added in similarly.
Quote from: Bill;646661I remain hopeful they will someday banish the horror of Wrestling, John Edwards, and Paranormal Shlock from living memory.
John Edwards I think went off the air a long time ago.
Some of the paranormal shlock, isn't. For example, I think Ghost Hunters and Destination Truth are decent shows. We've met Josh Gates from Destination Truth many times, and he's quite a good guy, and about as close as we get these days to a real adventurer.
Quote from: James Gillen;646612That's a pretty good candidate too. Although I don't know if there's a mutation that causes your body to be composed of bubblegum.
JG
If there's not there should be.
I love Adventure Time. If WoTC had some gumption they'd try to use it as a gateway drug to D&D.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;647949I love Adventure Time. If WoTC had some gumption they'd try to use it as a gateway drug to D&D.
RPGPundit
Damn right!
I think there was an Adventure Time game with simplified 4e rules, but I'm quite sure that it was fan-made.
Quote from: LibraryLass;647982Damn right!
I think there was an Adventure Time game with simplified 4e rules, but I'm quite sure that it was fan-made.
There's a lot of material in the series to act as inspiration for a gonzo campaign.
RPGPundit
My youngest sibling is on the design team for the Defiance game. If I wasn't so burned out on MMOs I'd be playing it right now, the show is pretty cool.
Quote from: Sigmund;648273My youngest sibling is on the design team for the Defiance game. If I wasn't so burned out on MMOs I'd be playing it right now, the show is pretty cool.
Yeah, and it sounds neat. The game takes place in a different part of the country(the San Francisco bay area), and it sounds like they have plans for it. Like to add more stuff and reveal more as time goes on, but in a way so as not to spoil things on the show. Plus it's some kind of shooter, which automatically makes it more appealing than pretty much any regular MMO out there even if shooters aren't exactly my favorite genre.
Having finally seen the first episode, I think that several of the earlier editions of Gamma World could pretty easily be adapted to the setting - or at least to a riff on it.
A fun enough show. I may stick with it. So long as there's no incest or regicide. I think i've had my fill from HBO!
The game, however, wasn't that great on xbox. It's ok, but not really suited to the console and has some silly mechanics. I don't really see it having much of a future.
On the plus side, that hooker in town is the possibly the friendliest and most agreeable whore ever.
The point I was making, which is relevant to roleplaying games, is clearly illustrated by comparing Defiance with Revolution, the other post-apocalyptic show currently on TV. Defiance has the different races and cultures to help quickly differentiate characters, super-sciences gizmos, monsters in the wilderness - the only thing missing from typical roleplaying fare so far is some sort of magical-superpower style abilities. Revolution plays it straight like Jericho or the BBC Survivors. It provides no special toys for roleplayers to have fun with, it's all down to the quality of the characters and the plots.
And that's the thing. Some roleplayers do prefer more grounded games without supernatural or super-science frills, but they've traditionally been a minority. Defiance stands out for its roleplaying potential precisely because it has an abundance of these frills, no doubt due to it's computer game ties.
As a viewer, I find Defiance is by far the better show anyway, but that is beside the point.
Parts of the show reminded me of Rage or Fallout 3 or Atlas Shrugged at times.
Quote from: Soylent Green;649089The point I was making, which is relevant to roleplaying games, is clearly illustrated by comparing Defiance with Revolution, the other post-apocalyptic show currently on TV. Defiance has the different races and cultures to help quickly differentiate characters, super-sciences gizmos, monsters in the wilderness - the only thing missing from typical roleplaying fare so far is some sort of magical-superpower style abilities. Revolution plays it straight like Jericho or the BBC Survivors. It provides no special toys for roleplayers to have fun with, it's all down to the quality of the characters and the plots.
And that's the thing. Some roleplayers do prefer more grounded games without supernatural or super-science frills, but they've traditionally been a minority. Defiance stands out for its roleplaying potential precisely because it has an abundance of these frills, no doubt due to it's computer game ties.
As a viewer, I find Defiance is by far the better show anyway, but that is beside the point.
I agree with you. I happen to really like survival-style post-apoc games, but for more short-term games. Zombie apoc and stuff is fun, but is very CoC in the long-term prospects for the characters :) Defiance and the Gamma World style of post-apoc seems much better for long-term campaign fun.
Regarding superpowers: For two weeks now the previews have been hinting at visions. The website for the game also more than hints that the characters have some sort of super-tech AI based powers of some sort. Without playing the game, however I can't say more.
However: I will say that I would find it highly irritating if something in the game accepted as canon (implanted super-ai badassitude) fails to show up in the show. Either it exists in the setting, or it does not. Pick one.
I'll accept that monsterous bugs the size of office buildings can be skipped under the basic assumption that Defiance would have killed all the local ones as part of making the town a safe haven.
I sat down expecting to watch some traditional Syfy channel rubbish and instead got a pretty damn good wee show! Special affects weren't so bad as to be distracting and the make up I thought was pretty good in places, but mostly, it was just entertaining.
Last night's episode added detail to the visions and includes hellbugs, too. More crunchy RPG bits, which is great.
The game has the luxury of more time, and so offers a lot more detail. As for the 'what humans typically do' vs 'aliens did it', it turns out to be primarily the former. See, the Votan set out for earth before humans were sending out radio waves, and were surprised to find it inhabited. Humans originally tried giving them reservations to occupy, and as such most of the aliens stayed asleep in space.
Then humans started picking at the seams of things, exploiting the newcomers, etc, and war broke out. Sometime after that, someone killed all the aliens in suspension, which is why the stuff is still orbiting in the present.
I missed out on Gamma World, but this setting seems pretty ripe for roleplaying to me...
Quote from: Soylent Green;649089Defiance has the different races and cultures to help quickly differentiate characters, super-sciences gizmos, monsters in the wilderness - the only thing missing from typical roleplaying fare so far is some sort of magical-superpower style abilities.
And lo and behold, turns out characters in Defiance can have some sort of aline/psionic/magical power. It's all there, 100% roleplaying setting.
Quote from: mcbobbo;650788I missed out on Gamma World, but this setting seems pretty ripe for roleplaying to me...
I had a lot of fun with older version of Gamma World. The current one though is a bit of an oddity, a rather tactical game with Paranoia-style wrapped around it. It has its fans, as does everything, but I'd be hesitant to recommend it.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;649104Parts of the show reminded me of Rage or Fallout 3 or Atlas Shrugged at times.
The end of the pilot made me think of RIFTS.
'Old St Louis' really made me think of RIFTS, too. All they needed was skelebots...
Quote from: CamofCthulhu;650016I sat down expecting to watch some traditional Syfy channel rubbish and instead got a pretty damn good wee show! Special affects weren't so bad as to be distracting and the make up I thought was pretty good in places, but mostly, it was just entertaining.
I was shocked.
Just saw the Pilot, and it was good.
But its the SYFY channel.
End of days are here! Run!