Quote from: VisionStorm on December 29, 2020, 05:13:49 PM
I tend to use "they/their" in my own writing, cuz it feels weird for me to assign a gender to a hypothetical player or character I haven't even visualized...

So instead of assigning the character a sex, you've assigned the character a multiple-personality disorder.  Makes sense nowadays...

Quote from: Razor 007 on December 29, 2020, 01:27:02 PM
You see feminine pronouns in use, as early as the core books for D&D 3rd Edition; which were released in the year 2000.  So this has been a trend, for 20 years now.

I think that in 3.x (and I know 1e Pathfinder) they basically just went by the gender of the iconic character. So for monks (Ember the human female iconic) the book used "she", while for bards (Gimble the gnome male iconic) the book used "he". Seems like a decent way to go about it.

I have noticed this switch to exclusively She over the years, which is slightly jarring, but I don't stress over it much really.
I would prefer if they just fluctuate between what gender to use or just use names of people, as suggested earlier in the thread.

One thing I found a bit odd was a Dungeon delve type card/boardgame where they decided to only make available exclusively Female characters. I can't remember the name of the game though.
They did explain their reasoning as "It just seemed right to do it that way".
I decided it just seemed right not to buy it on principal at that point, even though it looked like a fun game.
It's the first time I have mentioned this game in any discussion though, as I'm pretty picky with what games I buy, so anything that makes me feel uncomfortable at all, I just don't buy.

I'm old enough that I've always considered "he" an appropriate neutral pronoun, applying in a generic sense or when the gender of the person is unknown. That's how we were taught, and that's how I read a generic use of "he." I do understand that some people started objecting to that use, even if I find that objection to be kind of mystifying.

I find "he or she" is a bit clumsy, but it isn't too jarring. (And these days, I'd bet there are people who object to "he or she" as too limited...) I find constructs like "s/he" very jarring. I also find the use of "they" as a singular pronoun to be very jarring. I think "she" is fine if the person under discussion is female. I find the an alternating use of "she" and "he" as generic pronouns to be jarring.

But I can't say I'm too concerned about it, in any case. I try to be reasonably polite and consider my audience, but I also have some long-ingrained habits when writing. Ultimately, with the whole mess I'm kind like, whatever, man...

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on December 29, 2020, 11:27:40 PMUltimately, with the whole mess I'm kind like, whatever, man...

Yeah, pretty much this.

Quote from: jhkim on December 29, 2020, 03:46:14 PM

Quote from: kidkaos2 on December 29, 2020, 01:14:40 PM
So for decades RPG rules just used "he".  Then I noticed disclaimers start to appear saying they were using he for simplicity's sake but it wasn't to be taken as exclusionary. Then I noticed alternating he and she.  Then I noticed using she for the GM and he for a player.  Now I'm noticing just she.

Your interpretation aside, this is a false perception. For example, AD&D 1st edition by Gary Gygax used "he or she" throughout. For example, from the Player's Handbook:

QuoteEach player develops the abilities of his or her character through random number generation (by means of dice rolling) to determine the basic characteristics of the persona, the abilities. The payer then decides what race the character is, what the characters' class is, the alignment of the character, and what the character's name is to be. The character will speak certain languages determined by race, class, and alignment. He or she will have a certain amount of gold pieces to begin with, and these funds will be used to purchase equipment needed for adventuring. Finally, each character begins with a certain number of hit points, as determined by the roll of a die (or dice) commensurate with the character's class.

I know White Wolf started using generic "she" in 1990 or so, which was thirty years ago now. So it's not like it's a new trend.

I don't think that it's a big deal, and I don't think it's a big deal to most players. I mildly prefer alternating or using singular "they" rather than "he or she". But mostly, I think it only stands out when one is looking for it.

He or she, never has bothered me.  Flipping all the he's to she's, does though; because there's an agenda behind it.

As others have noted. The usages go wayyyyy back.

Sometimes it is simply the writing style the author or editor was taught. Way back I was taught to use "he or she" as it was more clear and that using just he, or she, or alternating back and fourth could be jarring to a reader for various reasons.

Later it became popular to use they/their as it was at the time considered less cumbersome to read and simple to parse.

Around the 90s in the prior iteration of this political correctness+femnazi movement there was a push to use she by marketing. As it was "trendy" or somesuch.

Then by 2010 we were seeing bigger pushes to use only she again as the next iteration of this mental disease began to gain momentum.

I firmly believe that if there were not an agenda behind the usage of "she" only then no one would really care other than at worse a mild curiosity as to why its written like that.

And that is ever the point of irk for people. When its not being done just "because" but is instead being done to serve or kowtow to some agenda.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on December 29, 2020, 11:27:40 PM
I'm old enough that I've always considered "he" an appropriate neutral pronoun, applying in a generic sense or when the gender of the person is unknown. That's how we were taught, and that's how I read a generic use of "he." I do understand that some people started objecting to that use, even if I find that objection to be kind of mystifying.

This is me too.   I stick with what I was taught because there's no real reason to do anything else, and I find the modern usages jarring and distracting.  I also find it useful as a litmus test.  If I use "he" and someone objects, then I don't want him as a member of my gaming circle or a friend.

'He' suits me... It's always been that way in general writing terms, etc. I'm not going to change anything to please anyone... They can simply ignore my writing (or products) and I'm alright with that.

The "Modern Language Association" (MLS) has had an agenda at least since the 1960's.  Probably longer, but they were quieter about before that.  As with a lot of things involving prescriptive style and grammar, the supposed narrowness of the MLS style bleeds into other writing, particularly the stilted styles taught by second and third rate English teachers who didn't really learn the nuances of grammar between their odes to various causes in their "literature" papers and other activities.  Games are downstream from culture.  News at 11:00. 

On the other hand, this is hardly the first time for such twisting by English.  Generations of school children taught by the previous group of prescriptive English teachers have absorbed all kinds of grammar "rules" imported from Latin, such as being a little too concerned with split infinitives (where English can eventually get twisted but is much more relaxed).  And also it is OK to start a sentence with a conjunction (for style reasons) and prepositions are sometimes for ending sentences with.

The first time I actually noticed it was with in the White Wolf games. And it just felt so pretentious even though I loved Vampire. Now it's ubiquitous (in games anyway) and it still feels pretentious to me. But even worse it's now just about pandering to a bunch of grown up babies.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in equality... But I'll not be told by any wee shitebag what I can and can't do.

Quote from: Razor 007 on December 30, 2020, 12:22:38 AM
He or she, never has bothered me.  Flipping all the he's to she's, does though; because there's an agenda behind it.

Seconded and I feel the same way. It's when they claim their is no "agenda" behind it which is laughable at best. 

Quote from: jhkim on December 29, 2020, 04:47:58 PMSo did AD&D1 stand out as strange to you? Do you think its pronoun use was a mistake, and Gygax should have instead used default "he"?

Gygax' usage of "he or she" was part of the same pandering mindset that eventually led to the removal of demons and devils from AD&D.

As for the current trend, any RPG writer that is so obsessed with pronouns that he uses "she" or "they" will also censor himself in a myriad of other ways. I don't need another safe and sanitized RPG world full of non-offensive and committee approved adventures.

Which just shows how long this nonsense has been going on. What do they do in other languages where nouns have a gender?

Surprised that they haven't shifted to Xe or Xir or whatever other nonsense words they have made up to appease their mental illness. In short documents, he or she is fine, however it becomes cumbersome in long books or instructional materials. I prefer the neutral "they" for its brevity...