Quote from: Chris24601;1101267Allow me to clarify.

Your soul cannot be made an undead against your will (nor can it be destroyed). Animating a corpse is no different than animating a pile of chemicals. There's no soul or will attached to it. It's a robot that does whatever it's creator commands it to do. There's no unwilling soul trapped in some torturous half-life where it's compelled by inhuman instincts to commit atrocities. That's moved on to whatever comes next. Only those unwilling to go into the light; who choose to linger in darkness (often out of a desire for revenge or some other black emotion); rise as intelligent undead empowered by the Shadow and their own twisted souls.

The inviolability of souls is a big deal for me. There are no soul-eaters or soul-destroying spells in my world (you can't even be possessed unwillingly... though demon worshipers are more than willing to torture you until you break and agree just to make the pain stop... which also means there's often a timeframe where rescuing someone before they succumb is a viable mission to undertake).

So in your game, is an animated corpse (zombie) an undead or a construct?

Quote from: Haffrung;1100453I'm not the first person to remark that Americans treat their constitution like holy writ. People in other democracies don't give a shit what some dudes wrote a couple hundred years ago, except as historic or intellectual curiosities.

It could be that the United States Constitution is the one of the strongest foundations of a country and way of life, that while imperfect, has done more to elevate the world than any other in the same short period of its existence. No other nation has accumulated more power and abused it less nor has any other nation been so coveted a sanctuary. That's why the envious, jealous, ignorant and dishonest abhor it so.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1101280It could be that the United States Constitution is the one of the strongest foundations of a country and way of life, that while imperfect, has done more to elevate the world than any other in the same short period of its existence.

It could be. Or it could not be. Simply saying "it could be that" is NOT proof or even evidence of the statement.

QuoteNo other nation has accumulated more power

Point of order: the USA accumulating a vast amount of power has nothing to do with the moral purity, intellectual integrity, democratic tenacity of whatever-the-fuck-else of its citizens or its constitution. It has to do with the fact that geographically, the European settlers happened to stumble into the single best real estate in the world, just as it was becoming largely vacant thanks to European disease killing off most of the locals. It's protected from foreign invasion by two oceans as trenches and a frigid near-arctic environment on a third side. It has plenty of excellent natural resources, and a very favourable network of waterways for cargo transportation. Most of it is warm enough for large-scale agriculture but not warm enough to foster tropical diseases that do a real number on your population. That is what made the USA an economic, and consequently a military, superpower; not some sort of mythic American Exceptionalism mumbo-jumbo.

Quoteand abused it less

Trail of Tears plus all the other Red Man stuff. Chattel slavery. Literally dozens of dictatorial regimes all around the world installed and/or supported, formerly in the name of fighting the Soviets, more recently simply "because they serve our interests". If you honestly want to argue that the U.S. constitution somehow made the world a better place, you REALLY don't want to base your argument on who abuses power and who doesn't.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1101274So in your game, is an animated corpse (zombie) an undead or a construct?

They're essentially a construct animated by the Shadow, the same power source that allows intelligent undead to control their own corpses (and manifest various stereotypical undead abilities). They're generally considered undead simply because the animated constructs have the same general strengths and weaknesses as the intelligent undead do (do not tire, breathe or need to eat or drink (NEED being the operative word... the intelligent undead have an endless hunger, but don't technically need to eat or drink anything to survive), are immune to toxic damage, resistant to cold, but vulnerable to fire and take damage from direct sunlight (yes, all undead, not just vampires... they are entities of pure destruction entirely cut off from the light of the sun, the hearth fires of community and the fires of the forge; the utter antithesis of the pockets of civilization that struggle to grow from the ashes of The Cataclysm).

In a sense it's kinda like the distinction between a brain-in-a-jar cyborg (intelligent undead) and a robot run by a computer (mindless undead). The robot body is identical, but one is directed by a will and the other by a program.

This issue about redemption is a discussion of Contrast and Brightness. Contrast is interested in the spectrum between stark black & white through shades of grey. Brightness is interested in the spectrum between hope (optimism) through despair (pessimism). The In Nomine "DMG" helped clarify this for me, along with adding a Humor axis (comic through serious), and it helped me understand how to consciously establish setting atmosphere beforehand.

And there are plenty more axes (axisesess ) to talk about in tailoring a campaign setting, from progress, goals, interaction focii (3 pillars of combat, explore, social), scope (time, place, social strata), deviational breadth (side quests, pro-active PC integration), etc.

But the thing is to be conscious about these aesthetics before some outsider struggles to judge them for their conscientiousness to the player audience. And I think most settings DO try to express these aesthetic parameters implicitly. Consciously choosing for your setting and expressing its conceits (explicitly or implicitly) clears out a lot of confusion and gets good faith actors to "same page" their expectations and responsibilities.

However essays like this I do not find to be good faith actors. They read more like grad school humanities making hay so as to pass a class and snow a professor with their bullshit. I should know, I had an awesome post-modern teacher have us "craft our own narrative" argument consciously so as to understand the fragile and addictively self-reinforcing nature of connecting the dots our own way. It is a tempting power, but it can be used to wrought abuse, (such as weaponized pettiness,) as any other.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1101303[...]but [crafting our own narrative] can be used to wrought abuse, (such as weaponized pettiness,) as any other.

Whoa! Hey, pump the brakes, you've just outed my only two debate strategies! :mad:

Quote from: Antiquation!;1101307Whoa! Hey, pump the brakes, you've just outed my only two debate strategies! :mad:

I did say it was addictive, suggesting it is a lot of fun!

Quote from: Chris24601;1101267Allow me to clarify.

Your soul cannot be made an undead against your will (nor can it be destroyed). Animating a corpse is no different than animating a pile of chemicals. There's no soul or will attached to it. It's a robot that does whatever it's creator commands it to do. There's no unwilling soul trapped in some torturous half-life where it's compelled by inhuman instincts to commit atrocities. That's moved on to whatever comes next. Only those unwilling to go into the light; who choose to linger in darkness (often out of a desire for revenge or some other black emotion); rise as intelligent undead empowered by the Shadow and their own twisted souls.

The inviolability of souls is a big deal for me. There are no soul-eaters or soul-destroying spells in my world (you can't even be possessed unwillingly... though demon worshipers are more than willing to torture you until you break and agree just to make the pain stop... which also means there's often a timeframe where rescuing someone before they succumb is a viable mission to undertake).

Very helpful. Thanks.

Everybody is the hero in his own internal narrative. I'd be very interested in a game with colonization on it done right. By this I mean the colonizers see themselves as righteous and so do the colonized, and the setting's particulars let the GM/Players make up their mind about who (if anybody) is the good guy.

Regarding this same topic I haven't found a worldbook that deals with Aztecs/Mayans in a fair and real way. All I have found are deeply infected with the noble savage myth virus. This is even more so with the few games I know about that deal with colonization of the new world (A portuguese or brazilian one and one other I think spanish).

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101325Everybody is the hero in his own internal narrative. I'd be very interested in a game with colonization on it done right. By this I mean the colonizers see themselves as righteous and so do the colonized, and the setting's particulars let the GM/Players make up their mind about who (if anybody) is the good guy..

If you are not a Hero in your own story then you are a bit player in someone elses...and you might not like the part.

QuoteRegarding this same topic I haven't found a worldbook that deals with Aztecs/Mayans in a fair and real way. All I have found are deeply infected with the noble savage myth virus. This is even more so with the few games I know about that deal with colonization of the new world (A portuguese or brazilian one and one other I think spanish).

I listened to a podcast by an Italian historian on the Aztecs and the culture of human sacrifice and cannibalism sounded pretty disturbing.  Could you pull off a worldbook that can do that in a real and fair way?  Maybe.

Quote from: Shasarak;1101329If you are not a Hero in your own story then you are a bit player in someone elses...and you might not like the part.



I listened to a podcast by an Italian historian on the Aztecs and the culture of human sacrifice and cannibalism sounded pretty disturbing.  Could you pull off a worldbook that can do that in a real and fair way?  Maybe.

It is disturbing, they were ritualistic cannibals, so most of the year they weren't. But they weren't the first nor the only ones in this pat of the world to engage in it. Some scholars postulate this wasn't always the case, it was only in the last part of their empire.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101336It is disturbing, they were ritualistic cannibals, so most of the year they weren't. But they weren't the first nor the only ones in this pat of the world to engage in it. Some scholars postulate this wasn't always the case, it was only in the last part of their empire.

I dont know that it makes me feel better that they only eat people in the holidays.  

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1101239And the ones capable of stunning acts of compassion and mercy.

Absolutely!  We're really all over the place.  And you can get people who do truly horrible things one day and truly great things the next.

Quote from: Shasarak;1101339I dont know that it makes me feel better that they only eat people in the holidays.  

It's not supposed to make you feel better, it's to make a better more interesting game world.

As for being fair you would need to leave your 21st century western morality to the side and this is in regards of both the Europeans and the natives from that time. Sure Europeans didn't eat long pig anymore but this was something done in every part of the world at one time or another.

Recognizing the faults of both parties and presenting them both as empires subjugating others. (the Aztecs had several other peoples under their thumb, which is why some joined the Spaniards against the Aztecs.) would allow for a better game world IMHO.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1101325Everybody is the hero in his own internal narrative. I'd be very interested in a game with colonization on it done right. By this I mean the colonizers see themselves as righteous and so do the colonized, and the setting's particulars let the GM/Players make up their mind about who (if anybody) is the good guy.

Regarding this same topic I haven't found a worldbook that deals with Aztecs/Mayans in a fair and real way. All I have found are deeply infected with the noble savage myth virus. This is even more so with the few games I know about that deal with colonization of the new world (A portuguese or brazilian one and one other I think spanish).

Even Tekumel?