So we talked it over at my table and we decided on a cyberpunk style game, i'm not sure what system to use atm and it's been giving me a headache because I swear every time i find something to like it has an equal amount of stuff I don't like. My first intention was to use R.Tal's cyberpunk system and I picked up the 2020 set last time it was on humble bundle. I love how combat seems deadly, fast and brutal. The world is a nice grimdark dystopia and really it has a hell of a legacy. Plus I did enjoy 2020. On the other side, I hear the system is broken to all hell, with missing rules, weird equipment but most of all that classes are not only not balanced, but certain roles such as Cop are just so ill defined you're hard pressed to play anything besides a solo or a netrunner.
They apparently fixed all that in Cyberpunk Red, but then made some really weird decisions that I didn't like. AP rounds don't actually pierce armor, shotguns now are pretty much a claymore and hit everything in front of you, and my least favorite part...HIT POINTS. Oh and you cant actually score a head shot on the crit table unless you make a called shot to the head.
Shadowrun 4/5th edition: Kind of a huge departure from cyberpunk but it's worth mentioning because i remember it being fun and I like the world. Not a fan of CGL but I already own the books so who cares.
Otherwise i'm also considering Android shadow of the beanstalk for Genesys, Cyberpunk/interface zero/tales of the sprawl with Savage worlds or using GURPS because i'm hard pressed to think of anything GURPS can't do.
Anyway seeing if there is a perspective I haven't considered yet but I haven't really had that Eureka moment. I would start with one version of cyberpunk and switch to the other if it doesn't work out but their 30 year time jump has made that very difficult, because if I jumped back to 2020 after red, if they wanted to keep the same characters i'd have to update all the gear up to the 2050 timeline.
I'm frustrated because one of my players is about at the point of mutiny if I make him roll up any more characters. He wanted something he can get invested in and ive been doing alot of one shots.
You can use Stars Without Number for cyberpunk.
If you're open to Savage Worlds there is a very slick hack of Shadowrun called Sprawlrunners on drivethrurpg that's really nice and it's under ten bucks.
Shadow of the Beanstalk for Genesys isn't bad, but it doesn't necessarily improve on the things that you see as flaws in CPRed.
Quote from: HappyDaze on February 02, 2022, 08:11:34 PM
Shadow of the Beanstalk for Genesys isn't bad, but it doesn't necessarily improve on the things that you see as flaws in CPRed.
Yeah though, if im gonna go with a narrative system might as well actually embrace it.
If you don't mind the Apocalypse World rules, The Sprawl is pretty good. I've run it for my group several times and each time we had a blast. The downside is that it is solely focused on the missions. If you want to do anything between those it's a lot of just roleplaying and GM fiat as to what goes on.
Alternately, Neon Blood is a little more OSR with some modern design added in. I haven't gotten to play it yet, but plan to give it a go soon.
Both of these have some supplements to add more supernatural/fantasy elements to them and make them more Shadowrun-like.
If you like the Forged in the Dark system there is a cyberpunk rpg called Hack the Planet.
Zozer Games' Zaibatsu. Same setting as their HOSTILE, covering life on Earth among the masses still there.
Interface Zero 3.0 is a Savage Worlds cyber setting that's pretty good.
Another vote for The Sprawl. We played it both as pure cyberpunk and as a Shadowrun hack and it was a blast in both.
I've got 1 and 2e Shadowrun and if you ditch the magic side of the game. Which is ridiculously easy. Then you have a pretty good Cyberpunk system. Especially its netrunning parts.
One I always thought could use more attention was Torg's old Cyberpapacy setting, especially if combined with the Nippon Tech book and again ditching the mystical aspects. Cyberpapacy is certainly an unusual setting all on its own.
There is Lowlife 2090 - an OSR take on Shadowrun.
Easy enough to go human & tech only if you want.
Depends whether you are going to do your own setting or want something more or less ready to go out of the tin.
There's Cyberspace, if you dig Rolemaster, but it's OOP and probably quite dated. Still, it hasn't been mentioned, and it did have quite a few supplements, so I'm throwing it out there.
My recommendation is LowLife 2090. It is basically Shadowrun with a way better ruleset and more rules-lite.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/337851/Lowlife-2090 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/337851/Lowlife-2090)
This might do it for yah... Narrative and Shadow Run
https://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Anarchy-Catalyst-Game-Labs/dp/1941582192.
I have played it and it does do a decent job of doing Shadow run, but more narrative but not without crunch
Quote from: darnest on February 04, 2022, 09:10:28 PM
This might do it for yah... Narrative and Shadow Run
https://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Anarchy-Catalyst-Game-Labs/dp/1941582192.
I have played it and it does do a decent job of doing Shadow run, but more narrative but not without crunch
So I've played this before and unless they fixed it i remember it being unplayable. Whole sections of rules were outright missing.
Quote from: Michael Dean on February 03, 2022, 11:26:46 AM
Interface Zero 3.0 is a Savage Worlds cyber setting that's pretty good.
I have it, never got to play it. How does it run? At a glance it looks more my speed than sprawlrunners. Also have savage tales of the sprawl
So far the choice will likely be between CP2020 and CPRed
Cyberpunk Red for us. Tweak with a few houserules to deal with the few things mentioned.
Quote from: Ocule on February 04, 2022, 09:53:28 PM
So far the choice will likely be between CP2020 and CPRed
Lowlife 2090 looks woke to me. I was gonna ask you what kind of cyber genre you were going for? And if you had read fiction already from a certain genre. I'm used to playing cybernetics the way it is shown in Star Wars. It looks like you're going the cyberpunk route, like in Blade Runner.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on February 05, 2022, 01:11:19 AM
Quote from: Ocule on February 04, 2022, 09:53:28 PM
So far the choice will likely be between CP2020 and CPRed
Lowlife 2090 looks woke to me. I was gonna ask you what kind of cyber genre you were going for? And if you had read fiction already from a certain genre. I'm used to playing cybernetics the way it is shown in Star Wars. It looks like you're going the cyberpunk route, like in Blade Runner.
Yeah my biggest inspirations for what im going for are things like Bladerunner, Deus Ex, Ghost in the Shell, Necromunda, Android, Cyberpunk 2077, Shadowrun (even if im not running shadowrun i take alot of inspiration from their run generators) and even altered carbon season 1 (fuck season 2). The idea behind what i was going for was to lean into the high tech and low life.
As far as the role of cyberware and such, it should be a practical requirement of combat. You should need every edge you can get, and the difference between augmented and unaugmented characters should be substantial. Though the right amount of tech should be able to bridge the gap such as smart glasses with HUD, exoskeleton or power armor, etc.
Can't tell if Lowlife 2090 is woke or not but the art is tumblr levels of bad. It definitely does NOT evoke what they are saying the game is about. So idk, i think if i did a d20 based game for cyberpunk id probably use Stars without number, or Amazing Adventures or some variation of Alternity
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 10:52:19 AM
Can't tell if Lowlife 2090 is woke or not but the art is tumblr levels of bad. It definitely does NOT evoke what they are saying the game is about. So idk, i think if i did a d20 based game for cyberpunk id probably use Stars without number, or Amazing Adventures or some variation of Alternity
I wouldn't add any art from Lowlife 2090 to my Pinterest collections. Or any art from the new coming Shadowrun, for that matter.
I've only used Mongoose Traveller 1st Edition with Cybernetics supplement 8 and Scoundrel book 6 for any cyberpunk genre sessions I ran.
I should mention that another player just came to me and begged me not to make him learn any new systems. Which pretty much rules out like 90% of these options :( Traveller is on my list of shit i need to play though. I've only ever played traveller powered by GURPS funny enough, had a blast with it.
But the systems we are familiar with:
D&D, Savage Worlds, Fuzion/Interlock (From the Witcher PnP), Genesys, and d100 Warhammer 40k
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 02:11:38 PM
I should mention that another player just came to me and begged me not to make him learn any new systems. Which pretty much rules out like 90% of these options :( Traveller is on my list of shit i need to play though. I've only ever played traveller powered by GURPS funny enough, had a blast with it.
But the systems we are familiar with:
D&D, Savage Worlds, Fuzion/Interlock (From the Witcher PnP), Genesys, and d100 Warhammer 40k
I'll throw in for Interface Zero 3.0 too if you're not going with Red. I would have run it more than just a couple of times for two people by now if the PoD didn't keep getting yanked 'cos the writers are still polishing it. I wouldn't run LL2090 if my life depended on it after reading the book - even though my group would love to see a d20 Shadowrun, I'm never going to run that for them ever. Shadowrun belongs with the d6 forever!
Quote from: Dropbear on February 05, 2022, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 02:11:38 PM
I should mention that another player just came to me and begged me not to make him learn any new systems. Which pretty much rules out like 90% of these options :( Traveller is on my list of shit i need to play though. I've only ever played traveller powered by GURPS funny enough, had a blast with it.
But the systems we are familiar with:
D&D, Savage Worlds, Fuzion/Interlock (From the Witcher PnP), Genesys, and d100 Warhammer 40k
How does red play? I mean i flipped through the book a few times but trying to get more anecdotal stories from people who might have similar tastes.
Same with interface zero i suppose my only hesitation is alot of 3rd party settings arent as good at game design as they like to think they are. Well that and like you said, IZ3 cant seem to finish the product
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 02:45:25 PM
Quote from: Dropbear on February 05, 2022, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 02:11:38 PM
I should mention that another player just came to me and begged me not to make him learn any new systems. Which pretty much rules out like 90% of these options :( Traveller is on my list of shit i need to play though. I've only ever played traveller powered by GURPS funny enough, had a blast with it.
But the systems we are familiar with:
D&D, Savage Worlds, Fuzion/Interlock (From the Witcher PnP), Genesys, and d100 Warhammer 40k
How does red play? I mean i flipped through the book a few times but trying to get more anecdotal stories from people who might have similar tastes.
Same with interface zero i suppose my only hesitation is alot of 3rd party settings arent as good at game design as they like to think they are. Well that and like you said, IZ3 cant seem to finish the product
For all my misgivings about Hit Points (which I renamed Vitality) and shotguns (which I replaced with somebody's house rules), it played very smoothly. My players weren't super fond of the economy as it is set up, which makes everyone depend on knowing a fixer ot a techie to get the more valuable and/or useful equipment, though. Which is a part of it that I liked, lol. "The street finds its own use for things" isn't a motto they wanted to live by.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on February 05, 2022, 01:11:19 AM
Quote from: Ocule on February 04, 2022, 09:53:28 PM
So far the choice will likely be between CP2020 and CPRed
Lowlife 2090 looks woke to me. I was gonna ask you what kind of cyber genre you were going for? And if you had read fiction already from a certain genre. I'm used to playing cybernetics the way it is shown in Star Wars. It looks like you're going the cyberpunk route, like in Blade Runner.
Lowlife 2090 isn't really woke. It's just not that great of a design. It tries to be a more OSR/5e hybrid but the game doesn't pull it off IMO. I really dislike the classes.
There is a Blade Runner rpg in the works by Free League, which might be out late 2022.
Quote from: Dropbear on February 05, 2022, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 02:11:38 PM
I should mention that another player just came to me and begged me not to make him learn any new systems. Which pretty much rules out like 90% of these options :( Traveller is on my list of shit i need to play though. I've only ever played traveller powered by GURPS funny enough, had a blast with it.
But the systems we are familiar with:
D&D, Savage Worlds, Fuzion/Interlock (From the Witcher PnP), Genesys, and d100 Warhammer 40k
I'll throw in for Interface Zero 3.0 too if you're not going with Red. I would have run it more than just a couple of times for two people by now if the PoD didn't keep getting yanked 'cos the writers are still polishing it. I wouldn't run LL2090 if my life depended on it after reading the book - even though my group would love to see a d20 Shadowrun, I'm never going to run that for them ever. Shadowrun belongs with the d6 forever!
Shadowrun is done better by Sprawlrunners which uses Savage Worlds. Shadowrun has always had a bad dice system.
Quote from: RebelSky on February 05, 2022, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: Dropbear on February 05, 2022, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 02:11:38 PM
I should mention that another player just came to me and begged me not to make him learn any new systems. Which pretty much rules out like 90% of these options :( Traveller is on my list of shit i need to play though. I've only ever played traveller powered by GURPS funny enough, had a blast with it.
But the systems we are familiar with:
D&D, Savage Worlds, Fuzion/Interlock (From the Witcher PnP), Genesys, and d100 Warhammer 40k
I'll throw in for Interface Zero 3.0 too if you're not going with Red. I would have run it more than just a couple of times for two people by now if the PoD didn't keep getting yanked 'cos the writers are still polishing it. I wouldn't run LL2090 if my life depended on it after reading the book - even though my group would love to see a d20 Shadowrun, I'm never going to run that for them ever. Shadowrun belongs with the d6 forever!
Shadowrun is done better by Sprawlrunners which uses Savage Worlds. Shadowrun has always had a bad dice system.
Everyone's got their own bag. I don't really like Sprawlrunners that much after reading. The flavor isn't there for me.
Yeah sprawlrunners lost me with logistics points and implant points. LP work great if youre doing like a spec ops style mission to mission game where you work for an organization or military where you requisition gear rather than buy it and are generally expected to return it. It can work but I don't necessarily want to run that game. Implant Points tied to edges was the biggest downer for me. By tying cybernetics as trappings for edges it brought all your augmented and non augmented characters to the same level of effectiveness. An augmented character with 4 advances is going to perform about as well as a non augmented character with 4 advances. This basically makes cybernetics pointless and you're better off just using tech rather than replacing body parts, which has become a staple in the genre.
Most cyberware can be easily matched by someone with the right tech, but some cannot. You can have a hud, exoskeleton/frame, armor, webbing, power armor etc. Ware like artificial nervous system, neural interface, internal autodoc, and other similar things become much harder. Or even subtle things like subdermal armor, or titanium laced bones are hard to replicate. But someone without the tech to make up for it, and a cyborg should NOT be on equal footing.
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 04:39:27 PMThis basically makes cybernetics pointless and you're better off just using tech rather than replacing body parts, which has become a staple in the genre.
Honestly, this is probably the case in real life too. Granted, high-end cyberimplants don't exist yet (they're sorta in the works), but I can't imagine a scenario where it would be better to poke your eye out and replace it with an infrared camera, vs just getting some infrared goggles to begin with. Same with cyberarms/legs vs simply using an exoskeleton frame.
Unless you lost a limb or an eyeball or something, there's no reason to have an actual implant vs just getting the tech. Even smartlinks and links for netrunning could probably just be done with a headset without the need for putting chips in your brain.
Quote
Lowlife 2090 looks woke to me. I was gonna ask you what kind of cyber genre you were going for? And if you had read fiction already from a certain genre. I'm used to playing cybernetics the way it is shown in Star Wars. It looks like you're going the cyberpunk route, like in Blade Runner.
There is literally NOTHING woke in LowLife 2090. I know the author and he is on a Discord channel for a YouTube game review channel that I'm on and he is an amazingly awesome guy.
LowLife 2090 is simply the best game mentioned in this thread and I own I think every single one mentioned herein.
Quote from: Batjon on February 05, 2022, 05:59:47 PM
Quote
Lowlife 2090 looks woke to me. I was gonna ask you what kind of cyber genre you were going for? And if you had read fiction already from a certain genre. I'm used to playing cybernetics the way it is shown in Star Wars. It looks like you're going the cyberpunk route, like in Blade Runner.
There is literally NOTHING woke in LowLife 2090. I know the author and he is on a Discord channel for a YouTube game review channel that I'm on and he is an amazingly awesome guy.
LowLife 2090 is simply the best game mentioned in this thread and I own I think every single one mentioned herein.
Good to know, though the art does seem a bit cartoony for what it's going for at least from what is. I dont have enough data left to watch the author, what's good about Lowlife 2090?
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 02:11:38 PM
I should mention that another player just came to me and begged me not to make him learn any new systems. Which pretty much rules out like 90% of these options :( Traveller is on my list of shit i need to play though. I've only ever played traveller powered by GURPS funny enough, had a blast with it.
But the systems we are familiar with:
D&D, Savage Worlds, Fuzion/Interlock (From the Witcher PnP), Genesys, and d100 Warhammer 40k
Mongoose Traveller is OK doing cyberpunk, but it sounds like your best option is Cyberpunk 2020 because it is set with the genre and the system really is Fuzion/Interlock at its core. I tried Cyberpunk Red and while there were a lot of good things, there were also a lot of decisions made in that game that I found hard to support (mainly with character creation).
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 02:11:38 PM
D&D, Savage Worlds, Fuzion/Interlock (From the Witcher PnP), Genesys, and d100 Warhammer 40k
While not the best option at all.
Have a glance at the old Polyhedron setting article for d20m called DeathNet.
About players trapped in a Multi-setting VR world. It has some netrunning aspects and gives just enough to possibly build a cyberpunk setting off of. Not
Failing that there was the d20m Cyberpunk book. I think I have it. But not sure. If not one of my players may.
And failing all that if you must scrape the bottom of the barrel theres d20m Gamma World. Its far more cyberpunk than post apoc. Just junk the d20mGW rules and pull from the books the cybernetics, biotech and nanotech rules.
Quote from: Ocule on February 05, 2022, 06:33:19 PM
Quote from: Batjon on February 05, 2022, 05:59:47 PM
Quote
Lowlife 2090 looks woke to me. I was gonna ask you what kind of cyber genre you were going for? And if you had read fiction already from a certain genre. I'm used to playing cybernetics the way it is shown in Star Wars. It looks like you're going the cyberpunk route, like in Blade Runner.
There is literally NOTHING woke in LowLife 2090. I know the author and he is on a Discord channel for a YouTube game review channel that I'm on and he is an amazingly awesome guy.
LowLife 2090 is simply the best game mentioned in this thread and I own I think every single one mentioned herein.
Good to know, though the art does seem a bit cartoony for what it's going for at least from what is. I dont have enough data left to watch the author, what's good about Lowlife 2090?
Here is a video from Mr. Mean Reviews YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rBcURf15B8&t=3s&ab_channel=Mr.MeanSpeaks%21 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rBcURf15B8&t=3s&ab_channel=Mr.MeanSpeaks%21)
The Tablestop Monestary interviews the creator of the game, Steve Grodd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG1oylFKEWI&t=2103s&ab_channel=Mildra (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG1oylFKEWI&t=2103s&ab_channel=Mildra)
Mr. Mean Reviews live playtest Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIoFzbrJT6M&t=6764s&ab_channel=Mr.MeanSpeaks%21 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIoFzbrJT6M&t=6764s&ab_channel=Mr.MeanSpeaks%21)
Lowlife 2090 seems good, havent had the chance to play it yet though, and solid. I gotta say though that I have nothing bad to say about its art, but that is art different people have different opinions about it.
Someone even put up the Shadowrun races for it if you wish to use it for that.
Also if you aren't against PbtA games, and can handle a bit of this modern talk about respecting everything, then The Veil from Samjoko Publishing is really good.
If you want to go 5th edition D&D then there are multiple options like Genefunk 2090, Carbon 2185 (which is the deal of the day at DriveThru at the time of this writing)and Ultramodern5 Redux to name a few.
OSR systems the aforementioned Neonblood seems good.
Another d20 based one with a rules light approach and another one I happen to like os Altered State for ICrpg.
Another good one is Fragged Cyberpunk, based on the system of Fragged Empire (and set in the past of this setting). It has solid crunch in it's rules and combat which can be ran either with figures or not (personally it has a simplified set of rules for theatre of the mind but I would ignore those and use the more tactical ones whether or not using figures). The parent game is getting a 2nd editions sometimes soon though. The current 1st edition is now available real cheap from DriveThruRPG.
Also if one would want one could easily use Mage the Ascension, or now M20, to run a Cyberpunk game if going full Technocracy with it.
And finally Fate Core, or Accelerated/Condensed, can run pretty much anything and has most genres represented by one or more actual books as well. Like Mindjammer (though that is more scifi spaceopera than Cyberpunk).
Of course which game you choose is about your personal preference and which kind of rules do you prefer rules light like The Veil or medium crunch like the Fragged Cyberpunk. Personally I loved Cyberpunk 2020 back in the 90's and do have it my digital library and I left out of my list the options for Savage Worlds since they were covered by others. I should propably mention that here is an official Altered Carbon rpg out there but I have no knowledge of it outside of its kickstarter page as I couldn't back that one up.
Choose the one you like all of the above (and those previously mentioned by others) are amazing games.
Where can I find the Shadowrun races for LowLife 2090, please?
Quote from: soundchaser on February 04, 2022, 11:36:31 PM
Cyberpunk Red for us. Tweak with a few houserules to deal with the few things mentioned.
Quote from: Dropbear on February 05, 2022, 03:39:56 PM
For all my misgivings about Hit Points (which I renamed Vitality) and shotguns (which I replaced with somebody's house rules), it played very smoothly. My players weren't super fond of the economy as it is set up, which makes everyone depend on knowing a fixer ot a techie to get the more valuable and/or useful equipment, though. Which is a part of it that I liked, lol. "The street finds its own use for things" isn't a motto they wanted to live by.
I'm planning on running a short session or two of CPRed - and seeing as I don't feel a need to reinvent the wheel...
Links or maybe a cut and paste of the house rules?
I'd appreciate it.
And wow... That skill list needs a trim!
Quote from: Batjon on February 06, 2022, 12:13:54 PM
Where can I find the Shadowrun races for LowLife 2090, please?
Shared on the LL2090 Discord
Quote from: Skroxious on February 06, 2022, 09:29:05 PM
Quote from: Batjon on February 06, 2022, 12:13:54 PM
Where can I find the Shadowrun races for LowLife 2090, please?
Shared on the LL2090 Discord
I was able to grab it there, ty.
Quote from: Batjon on February 06, 2022, 08:47:26 AM
Mr. Mean Reviews live playtest Video:
That player in the top-middle, I think, spoke only once during the 2-hour game.
Avoid Interface Zero like the plague. Not only is the author unable to complete the game ever, but there's a whole bunch of broken rules in there thanks to constant unnecessary revision. Plus excessive bloat added over the last two years.
Zaibatsu and Neon Blood seem like good choices. Lowlife seems interesting too!
Quote from: mudbanks on February 08, 2022, 09:13:36 PM
Avoid Interface Zero like the plague. Not only is the author unable to complete the game ever, but there's a whole bunch of broken rules in there thanks to constant unnecessary revision. Plus excessive bloat added over the last two years.
You have any examples of the broken rules? I'm not worried about a game not being "complete" as no game is really complete until the GM says so.
The android race was the first example that stood out. It's supposed to be vulnerable to EMP damage, but EMP isn't in the game.
Wealth was also broken in that you could run around with big fragging guns and implants at Novice rank. I think they changed starting wealth so that might have fixed it, but when I last played it, PCs were running around with 12 Toughness and anti-materiel rifles.
Hacking has always been a bloated mess but it got worse after the last few updates where you could use modular rules to adapt it to your liking, except they don't work because an Edge from a modular rule would require another modular rule to be used. There are also Hacking actions that require Hacking specializations that are not included in the rules.
There's probably more in there but I really don't want to go back to it :P
Since no one else has gone there...
Real Life
It wasn't originally a cyberpunk game, but elements have been creeping into updates for decades now. It's a less glitzy take on the genre, granted, but all the core elements are there: megacorps, surveillance state, everyone constantly plugged into the net, etc. The rules are confusing at first but it's pretty immersive once you get used to them.
One problem is the metaplot: it's is pretty confusing, and different sourcebook contradict each other about what exactly is going on.
If you like BoL/Everywhen there's Neonpunk Crysis as an option.
Found something called HexGen on my computer. Some sort of cyberpunk RPG. But the mechanics to me are just meh.
Quote from: Tubesock Army on February 04, 2022, 08:22:44 PM
There's Cyberspace, if you dig Rolemaster, but it's OOP and probably quite dated. Still, it hasn't been mentioned, and it did have quite a few supplements, so I'm throwing it out there.
Cyberspace worked well and was my pick back in the day, over 2020 and GURPS (and Shadowrun, which I never cared for). It's a light version of the Rolemaster engine, more like MERP in complexity level, and ran quickly. Decent flavor and supplements. Possibly "dated" but I see the whole genre as a historical artifact these days anyway, you accept some of the 80s/90s trapping as part of it.
Quote from: mudbanks on February 08, 2022, 11:58:48 PM
The android race was the first example that stood out. It's supposed to be vulnerable to EMP damage, but EMP isn't in the game.
Wealth was also broken in that you could run around with big fragging guns and implants at Novice rank. I think they changed starting wealth so that might have fixed it, but when I last played it, PCs were running around with 12 Toughness and anti-materiel rifles.
Hacking has always been a bloated mess but it got worse after the last few updates where you could use modular rules to adapt it to your liking, except they don't work because an Edge from a modular rule would require another modular rule to be used. There are also Hacking actions that require Hacking specializations that are not included in the rules.
There's probably more in there but I really don't want to go back to it :P
The Interface Zero 3.0 GM book is a fantastic resource for helping to build your own cyberpunk setting. The GM Tools in the book comes close to Kevin Crawford's work, albeit through a Savage Worlds lense. Unfortunately the final version has been delayed still, but it's one of the three best pure GM cyberpunk genre toolkits out there. IMO of course.
Yeah, I can't argue with that. David Jarvis has a lot of great ideas when it comes to establishing lore. The entire Interface Zero line has always dripped with flavour.
Quote from: mudbanks on February 08, 2022, 11:58:48 PM
The android race was the first example that stood out. It's supposed to be vulnerable to EMP damage, but EMP isn't in the game.
Wealth was also broken in that you could run around with big fragging guns and implants at Novice rank. I think they changed starting wealth so that might have fixed it, but when I last played it, PCs were running around with 12 Toughness and anti-materiel rifles.
Hacking has always been a bloated mess but it got worse after the last few updates where you could use modular rules to adapt it to your liking, except they don't work because an Edge from a modular rule would require another modular rule to be used. There are also Hacking actions that require Hacking specializations that are not included in the rules.
There's probably more in there but I really don't want to go back to it :P
IMHO no game that I know off has good mechanics for hacking, it always becomes a game inside the game with the hacker doing stuff and the rest sitting.
IRL most hacking is done by social engineering, why should it be any different in the game? Use the Face to seduce/con the mark you need to get access to the datavault.
Really important stuff no one in their sane mind would put in a computer wired to the net, Maybe not even to the intranet.
So get the codes to get inside the building, buy a cracking program from a hacker, get to the correct computer, use the software and download what you need and get the fuck out of there.
Maybe plant a bomb so they can't know what you got.
My 4 classes for Cyberpunk:
Solo, Face, Pilot, Techie. You buy shit from a hacker when needed, depending on how much you spend you have a better/worst chance of it working as intended.
And nbo nano anything, not technomancers, or any other magic shit, much less orcs, elves, dwarves, etc. It's cyberpunk not D&D with a very thin coat of paint.
Quote from: Simon W on February 12, 2022, 05:29:37 AM
If you like BoL/Everywhen there's Neonpunk Crysis as an option.
BoL/Everywhen is fucking great, haven't bought Neonpunk Crysis tho.
QuoteSolo, Face, Pilot, Techie. You buy shit from a hacker when needed, depending on how much you spend you have a better/worst chance of it working as intended.
Problem is generally with cyberpunk genre you wanna have quite a lot of players who want to be hackers I guess.
I think simple solution to mini-game is turning actual hacking into extended skill test - preferably with mechanics that allowed for degrees of consequence and success. Then whole hacking process can be simplified to few rolls covering let's say 30 minutes of work in-verse. It's not like Solo's start shooting off guards before hacking job is done really.
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 09, 2022, 01:11:10 PM
Since no one else has gone there...
Real Life
It wasn't originally a cyberpunk game, but elements have been creeping into updates for decades now. It's a less glitzy take on the genre, granted, but all the core elements are there: megacorps, surveillance state, everyone constantly plugged into the net, etc. The rules are confusing at first but it's pretty immersive once you get used to them.
One problem is the metaplot: it's is pretty confusing, and different sourcebook contradict each other about what exactly is going on.
RL is a bit too grimdark for me. I prefer a more optimistic 1980s-style take on the genre - Robocop, Cyberpunk: 2020 et al.
You could try the sprawl, its PBTA so not fashionable in these parts but it is fun and runs really fast.
The game is structured around doing jobs and comes a bit adrift for other things.
Quote from: Possessed on February 06, 2022, 11:52:09 AM
Also if one would want one could easily use Mage the Ascension, or now M20, to run a Cyberpunk game if going full Technocracy with it.
I will second Mage the Ascension. Movie style fun hacking is basically magic anyways, so a magic based system actually emulates it quite well. Same with cyberware upgrades, basically hacking life and therefore well emulated by magic. The anniversary edition provides a full splatbook compilation and some of the factions specialize in iconic cyberpunkery. Moreover, while it is lore depended, it is largely setting independent so can be grafted onto a world of your choice.
Personally not a fan of Interface Zero as, after I backed the kickstarter, my physical books never got delivered; and when I emailed the author about it he ignored me...
If I were to run something cyberpunk now, I would either stick with Cyberpunk RED, do something else in SWADE, use the SWN Cyberpunk supplement, or wait for Cy_Borg to release in like 2 weeks.
Didn't know there's a cyberpunk supplement for SWN. Thanks for the heads up!
Quote from: mudbanks on April 01, 2022, 08:16:50 PM
Didn't know there's a cyberpunk supplement for SWN. Thanks for the heads up!
Yep, I believe it's called Polychrome
Quote from: Ocule on February 02, 2022, 07:27:14 PM
I'm frustrated because one of my players is about at the point of mutiny if I make him roll up any more characters. He wanted something he can get invested in and ive been doing alot of one shots.
There's a new Kickstarter for a cyberpunk viking RPG that started today. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1990654819/shield-maidens-a-new-viking-cyberpunk-tabletop-rpg
Hopefully, your players will appreciate more the current choices of cyberpunk RPGs that are available.
If you want to mix in some supernatural/horror with your Cyberpunk then look up the Nights Edge series of setting books and modules for CP2020.
This was an outsourced production by IANUS who did some other CP2020 modules as well. Some of tese are pretty good and it presents a setting where vampires and werewolves and magic exist in a cyberpunk setting. In many ways its Shadowrun done grittier and with more horror elements. You could probably replace SR's setting with Nights Edge with little hassle.
I have some of the books but have no clue even now how many there were and it gets a little blurry whats NE and whats standard 2020.
Quote101 Nights Edge RPG
102 Necrology - Death Life and Afterwards
103 Survival of the Fittest
104 Necrology - And Now I lay me Down
105 Necrology - Immortality
106 King of the Concrete Jungle
107 Media Junkie I - Take One
108 Bloodlust
110 Grim Cybertales
112 Crashpoint
114 Media Junkie II - Final Cut
115 Playground
116 Dark Metropolis
117 Premature Burial
118 Remember Me
119 Home Front
120 Sub-Attica
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on April 01, 2022, 08:45:54 PM
There's a new Kickstarter for a cyberpunk viking RPG that started today. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1990654819/shield-maidens-a-new-viking-cyberpunk-tabletop-rpg
WTF?
After you start an entire thread bitching and whining about how woke and awful that game is, you want to advocate for it now? What happened, did you get modded on the Mongoose forums again?
I forgot to mention a cyberpunk game that I am pretty fond of. Haven't played it in a good while, but there's some interest that has been generated now in my current group.
Etherscope. Victorian Cyberpunk, in the year 1984. It's a little different as far as the setting goes, has an interesting magic system attached to it that can be just as easily downplayed as utilized, and everyone can hack The Scope (Matrix) to some degree - and you can take upload tabs (drop acid, basically) to get online. There are different "races" but they are mostly just offshoots of humans via gene engineering.
One thing about the game to me that pushes it into your realm of possibilities is that it is d20 based. So that "no new systems!" outcry can be quelled out of the gates.
You might want to give Black Code a whirl, it's a bit different, but has cyberpunk roots. No real netruns though, so if you're looking for that, it won't help. Design your own body? Be a robot? Have the biggest, baddest, coolest Gun, Car, Pet, body upgrade imaginable? Making your way through an apocalyptic urban sprawl while sticking it to the man? All possible here.
It's being run at quite a few UK cons if you want to give a try before buying (assuming you're in the UK, of course!).
#IknowAGuy
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but The Gaia Complex is a really near cyberpunk game that's focused on a corporate run Europe. Rules don't seem too heavy either.
Quote from: Dropbear on April 03, 2022, 08:08:51 PM
I forgot to mention a cyberpunk game that I am pretty fond of. Haven't played it in a good while, but there's some interest that has been generated now in my current group.
Etherscope. Victorian Cyberpunk, in the year 1984.
I glanced at it on the shelves way back and gave it a pass because for a d20m book it goes out of its way to not say it is a d20m book. And it is not till like page 13 that it said it was Self Contained. But the, I think, quarter page on OGL (which at the time I did not know what was) talked about changes to the system. But not WHAT system and read like you might need this un-named system to play it??? argh.
Interesting setting but could have done without the magic. But easy enough to drop just like Shadowrun or even Nights Edge.
Quote from: RebelSky on April 04, 2022, 07:03:26 PM
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but The Gaia Complex is a really near cyberpunk game that's focused on a corporate run Europe. Rules don't seem too heavy either.
This and LowLife 2090 are my 2 favorite cyberpunk games. Both are also rather rules-lite.
Two more obscure ones from TSR.
F.R.E.E. Lancers for Top Secret SI: This is an odd one for TS. Cyberpunk meets Superheroes. Mostly near street level gadget superheroes. But there are a few with powers.
Kromosome for Amazing Engine: This one is another odd one in that it is predominantly a Biopunk setting. Focusing on gene modding, biotech, bodymodding, and other organic manipulations. AE has a pretty simple system and is fairly easy to pick up. Most of the later books did not require the AR core book to run each setting.
CY_BORG PDF just dropped to backers. It's good.
In my experience cyberpunk settings tend to get homogeneous after a while, in a similar fashion to post-Tolkien fantasy. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just an observation. So I haven't developed a preference for any particular cyberpunk game. I'd be more interested in a cyberpunk game with generic rules and the option of multiple settings that do different things with the cyberpunk genre. Such as differences in scale: Earth, Solar system, or interstellar. Or genre combinations like cyberpunk space western, cyberpunk mech war, cyberpunk bug war, cyberpunk space western mech bug war, etc
Cyberpunk tends to be very similar to eachother for the same reason say hard Sci-fi does or victorian era steampunk or planet romance or lone hero swords and sorcery.
They all use a certain frame to work in. Its what you do in the frame that matters.
So CP2020 is generic cyberpunk. Pretty much as baseline as you can get.
Shadowrun mixes in fantasy races and magic.
Nights Edge mixes in horror and the supernatural.
FREE Lancers mixes in superheroes.
Kromesome instead goes biopunk.
Deathnet focuses purely on being trapped in VR.
Aeon/Trinity mixes in Psionics, aliens and a little biopunk to boot and even remnants of superheroes from Aberrant.
Cyberpapacy mixes in the Inquisition and cyberfaith.
Tharkhold mixes in Demons and techno-horror.
They all share certain elements, though sometimes not all. Or focus on one more than the others.
Quote from: Omega on April 17, 2022, 02:30:03 PM
Cyberpunk tends to be very similar to eachother for the same reason say hard Sci-fi does or victorian era steampunk or planet romance or lone hero swords and sorcery.
They all use a certain frame to work in. Its what you do in the frame that matters.
So CP2020 is generic cyberpunk. Pretty much as baseline as you can get.
Shadowrun mixes in fantasy races and magic.
Nights Edge mixes in horror and the supernatural.
FREE Lancers mixes in superheroes.
Kromesome instead goes biopunk.
Deathnet focuses purely on being trapped in VR.
Aeon/Trinity mixes in Psionics, aliens and a little biopunk to boot and even remnants of superheroes from Aberrant.
Cyberpapacy mixes in the Inquisition and cyberfaith.
Tharkhold mixes in Demons and techno-horror.
They all share certain elements, though sometimes not all. Or focus on one more than the others.
It should be noted that Night's Edge is a modular add-on to Cyberpunk 2020. It is not a stand alone game.
Just discovered Lowlife 2090. Very good cyberpunk with fantasy trappings. Much better than Shadowrun IMO. I have to try it as a human-only game to assess it compared to our usual Cyberpunk. Cool design though.
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 17, 2022, 05:50:36 PM
It should be noted that Night's Edge is a modular add-on to Cyberpunk 2020. It is not a stand alone game.
Right. Which I mentioned earlier in the thread even. But it is its own setting more-or-less. My point was not about individual standalone game systems.
FREE Lancers is of Top Secret SI, Kromsome for Amazing Engine, Cyberpapacy and Tharkhold are for Torg, and so on.
And adding to the list.
CP2020 Doll Edition mixes in Theme Park kingdoms... no... really... (honestly I wish they'd expanded on the idea properly as it has some potential for its own setting even.)
Quote from: Omega on April 17, 2022, 02:30:03 PM
Cyberpunk tends to be very similar to eachother for the same reason say hard Sci-fi does or victorian era steampunk or planet romance or lone hero swords and sorcery.
They all use a certain frame to work in. Its what you do in the frame that matters.
So CP2020 is generic cyberpunk. Pretty much as baseline as you can get.
Shadowrun mixes in fantasy races and magic.
Nights Edge mixes in horror and the supernatural.
FREE Lancers mixes in superheroes.
Kromesome instead goes biopunk.
Deathnet focuses purely on being trapped in VR.
Aeon/Trinity mixes in Psionics, aliens and a little biopunk to boot and even remnants of superheroes from Aberrant.
Cyberpapacy mixes in the Inquisition and cyberfaith.
Tharkhold mixes in Demons and techno-horror.
They all share certain elements, though sometimes not all. Or focus on one more than the others.
Wish there was a list like that for other genres
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 18, 2022, 04:03:40 PM
Wish there was a list like that for other genres
TSR alone has at some point covered alot of combinations.
Blackmoor mixes in alien invaders.
Mystara is the original Isekai setting. Well ok, Greyhawk is. But not as much as Mystara. 8)
Spelljammer mixes in space travel.
Night of the Comet (not sure on the title as its been decades) mixes in alien Terminators.
Red Steel mixes in practically spagetti-western style spanish and italian western themes as well as swashbuckling.
Dark sun mixes in post-apoc elements.
Other RPGs have come at it from all sorts of angles.
TFT steals a few pages from GOR.
Warhammer mixed in the dark ages and Elric and Newhon and... well you get the idea...
Tunnels & Trolls is a hard one to pin down as it doesnt quite fit any pattern. It is not very tolkeinesque, is though a bit conanesque in a few adventures. And the Citybook seeries, least from what I have paints a setting that is surprisingly not derivative.
Talislantia is one have not yet had a chance to look at. Same for Runequest. The starter box I got was very low on setting details.
Palladium is another one that is more its own thing than copying other settings. In some ways it feels like what Warhammer should have been.
and so on.
But for cyberpunk settings I think FREE Lancers and Nights Edge are my personal favourites followed closely 1st ed Shadowrun.
I guess another system you could try if you want to veer more towards the light side that would be in a similar vein to The Sprawl would be Neon City Overdrive. Made by the same people that made Freeform Universal RPG, works kinda like a mix of Fate-style aspects and dice pools but looks pretty decent. Fairly cheap too.
Due to revelations brought up in the woke list thread, I am still a little skeptical on Cy_Borg. Asked about it on discord and the response I got was basically that characters similar to the Exec class don't really fit with the theme of Cy_Borg, similar to the Fixer and the Lawman classes; although taking this with a grain of salt.
Another thing you could do too is go back to the roots and run Shadowrun 1e, since it is still for sale digitally
I've got 1 and 2e Shadowrun and if you ditch the magic side of the game. Which is ridiculously easy. Then you have a pretty good Cyberpunk system. Especially its netrunning parts.
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teatv.ltd (https://teatv.ltd/dl/)
Another thing you could try if you want a little minimal, and like Forged in the Dark systems, is CBR+PNK, and it's free on itch.io right now and had a pretty successful kickstarter.
Quote from: mukargya3 on April 20, 2022, 07:16:09 AM
I've got 1 and 2e Shadowrun and if you ditch the magic side of the game. Which is ridiculously easy. Then you have a pretty good Cyberpunk system. Especially its netrunning parts.
Thats what I have been telling people for many a year.
Due to coding issues the old SR MUD lacks the magic system for mobs and possibly PCs as well so its more straight-up cyberpunk with low end mutants.
And if you like the netrunning side. I did some spritework for a fan recreation of that as a PC game called Decker.