It's always a volatile topic. When do the PC die? Do you stick to the rules, disallow death (without player permission) entirely. Can PCs die from just pure bad luck of bad rolls at any time or only during appropriate time (however you define appropriate)?

There are allot of ways to handle death in games. What's your personal approach?

Spun off from this thread on TPB.

I tune likelihood of death based on genre.  Running a magical girl game, it's generally not my job to set them up the bomb; in a ninja game, their job is often killing people, and dying is often involved.

In the above magical girl game, death is a possibility (they are taking potentially lethal risks) but not likely except in thematically appropriate situations.  If I set up fights where random were-toads could kill them, there had better be something accomplished by that fight, or it would be better if I'd lined it up differently.

In the above ninja game death is possible in many fights, likely if those fights are not approached in an appropriately ninja fashion, and close to a long run certainty.  Sometimes things just go bad, wouldn't feel right if it didn't.

I've often run games where I was more interested in (and knowledgeable of) the mechanics than many players.  When my players are invested in keeping a character alive, but have limited give-a-damn when it comes to mechanics, I'm willing to discuss at length the mechanics involved in a life-or-death situation, and the statistics of choices they outline (as their character would have some sense of this, and they're trying to get it right).

In my experience, this has been a delicate subject with some gamers.

The more laid back, funny and all around relaxed players, who also seemed to have gotten started with games like D&D 1st or 2nd, Call of Cthulhu or Rifts, never seemed to have minded it. Most of them explicitly told me that they like the added danger and didn't care about rolling up a new character. They tended to just want to hang out.

The ones who expressed great displeasure at the very concept of PC death seemed to have started later, with 3rd/4th ed D&D or WoD, and who seemed the most upset by failed dice rolls, peril of just about any kind or who got the most invested in writing up countless pages of backstory. They were the ones who prefered forum-based games where they could go into extremely detailed character development.

So I guess that it all depended on the players that I had. Nowadays, I ask before any campaign if people mind character death and get a general consensus.

All that being said, rarely did any of my players enjoy sudden death out of nowhere for no reason. The ones who just said "aw shucks" were the ones who played a LOT of Mordheim and Necromunda. They seemed used to having their favorite characters die pointlessly.

Quote from: Nexus;831310It's always a volatile topic. When do the PC die? Do you stick to the rules, disallow death (without player permission) entirely. Can PCs die from just pure bad luck of bad rolls at any time or only during appropriate time (however you define appropriate)?

There are allot of ways to handle death in games. What's your personal approach?

Spun off from this thread on TPB.

I allow it to happen whenever.

Depends on the RPG.

RPGs like Elric are quite dark and violent with no Rez, little healing and a vicious combat.
High death rates are inevitable and people who like the Elric RPG play with this in mind.

With DnD and specifically 5E, what with the Inspiration reroll option, I feel that covers really unlucky dice rolls killing a character.
I do tend to allow some sort of "Save" roll or skill check or something if the player can think of a good reason to allow it.

PCs die when the dice say so or when they choose a suicidal course of action. Anything less wouldn't be cricket.

If they die, they die.  (Kudos to Drago)

PCs do what they want.  I try to have the world realistic-ish.  I roll in the open.  If dice say a lone goblin cuts off your pecker and you bleed out, so be it.

There are been a few threads on this. So here goes again.

As a DM (and a player) If the PCs drop then that is that.
Unless the PCs do something about it somehow. And there are times when you just cannot.

Assuming the PCs get that far. I usually place a temple who will raise dead for a fee or quest in the major cities. That may not be convenient to get to, or too far away within the time limits. Just because its there doesnt mean you will allways be able to access it.

As noted in another thread, I make Reincarnation more common and Raise less common. Which is still rare and is no guarantee. Especially in older editions where you could fail a Raise Dead. And I have had players waive a Reincarnate due to just not wanting to come back as a naked mole rat or budgie... ahem. (Actually they are more concerned with reincarnating into a body that cannot advance any further.)Which brings up the next factor that so many "Kill em all!" advocates miss.

Death is not necessarily a setback. If you can just make a new character and be back in then death potentially becomes meaningless. Conversely, living may result in a differnt sort of death. A character may come back only to have to retire due to circumstance. Such as a reincarnate, or a mission failed so badly their rep is shot to hell.

Everyone treats it differently.

28 years of DnD (eesh, gatting old), who knows how many dead PCs (ballpark estimate of one per 10-20 hours of play), and not o e of my players has ever wanted their PC to be raised.  Cleric died last session from a wraith.  Every other player pleaded with him to get raised.  Player said nope, even if they tried his soul would refuse.  The cleric died honorably in combat and he took to rolling up a new PC.

Quote from: Old One Eye;83132528 years of DnD (eesh, gatting old), who knows how many dead PCs (ballpark estimate of one per 10-20 hours of play), and not o e of my players has ever wanted their PC to be raised.  Cleric died last session from a wraith.  Every other player pleaded with him to get raised.  Player said nope, even if they tried his soul would refuse.  The cleric died honorably in combat and he took to rolling up a new PC.

That's my kind of player.  I hate resurrections. You live, you fight, you die, you roll up a new one.

Again, it depends on the game, but most often I run action-packed and/or horrific games, and I want it to be a real and significant possibility.

As far as I'm concerned, at the scale I run most of my games, it's very difficult to compete with the threat of death in terms of fear, excitement and pathos — even if all death ultimately means is that you're rolling up a new character.

As a player, too, dice-fudging to avoid character death offends me. How dare the GM cheapen my character's bravery by dulling the reaper's scythe.

The one extraneous factor I admit to influencing me to dial down the lethality, is the time cost of character generation. TSR D&D, CoC or Traveller? I throw them like so many sacrifices to the furnaces of Moloch. Runequest or WoD? Let's hope they're clever enough not to assault an enemy stronghold head-on without an army, and that they'll retreat or surrender if they are. Eclipse Phase? Bah, they'll reuse the same sheet via cortical stack, upload them all and let the TITANs sort them out. GURPS or Rolemaster? Ewwgh fuck, what am I doing running this? No, it's OK guys, it's just one goblin. Unarmed. Toothless. You kill him and he's got a huge ruby, you can all retire from adventuring, forever. Let's play something else. Yeah, that's why I don't run those two.

Despite what some complain about the death save. 5e is surprisingly lethal. Once you go to zero death can come from about anything in 2 hits. And raise is still not guaranteed even without system shock threat. Definitely enjoying the return of an actually threatening setting where lowly kobolds are a viable threat to PCs well on in levels.

Quote from: Omega;831342Despite what some complain about the death save. 5e is surprisingly lethal. Once you go to zero death can come from about anything in 2 hits. And raise is still not guaranteed even without system shock threat. Definitely enjoying the return of an actually threatening setting where lowly kobolds are a viable threat to PCs well on in levels.

I can personally attest to this. Orcs very nearly handed me my ass right at the first combat.

I started gaming way back in 1974 and death was pretty common in some DM's dungeons...and not too common in other DM's dungeons. Which shows that the fatality level is not a simple matter of the game rules.

Over time, I became less accepting of PC death. Part of that was causing a lot of PC death. I had a reputation as a bit of a killer DM back in the day (too much rules mastery and tactical sense on my part versus that of my players combined with a let the dice fall ethic, and effectively no resurrection or reincarnate in my campaigns saw a fair number of dead PCs and no one reaching higher than level 6). Then I saw plenty of near dead, maimed, and dead PCs when GMing Runequest 2 and 3. Then a number of dead and insane PCs running Call of Cthulhu.

I realized that killing PCs is way too easy for me as the GM. It's actually more of a challenge for me to create situations for the players that are unlikely to kill the PCs while still being challenging for the PCs.

In addition after playing campaigns that ran for years or decades the character connections become more important and character death becomes both more meaningful and at the same time more of a loss for all the players due to the number of connections that get severed with a PC or NPC death. So death as a likely outcome became less attractive.

Games like WEG's Star Wars D6 or Honor+Intrigue where the PCs have bennies that can prevent character death are much more appealing to me now. There is typically a cost to preventing PC death and there is still a risk (though a much lower risk) that prevention fails and actual character death results.

Summary: I like there to be an actual risk that a PC can die, the risk adds spice to the game and it aligns with my preference for games that are more grounded in reality and less gonzo, but I like the risk to be low and I like it if there is some in game or metagame mechanic (like Fortune points) that allow players a chance to prevent their character's death.

And though the question was asked about PCs, I feel pretty much the same way about NPCs. Though a lot more of them seem to end up dead somehow. One nice thing about H+I is that the major villains also have Fortune Points which they can use to escape death. This has saved more than a few villains. Though not all of them.

Cop-out answer: It depends on the game.

Real answer: My preferences these days are such that lots of funny and awesome PC deaths are better than lots of precious snowflakes that must be cherished and nourished at all costs. Incidentally, this was also my preference when I was fourteen.

Me and my fourteen-year-old self also had a thing for 22-year-old college cheerleaders, so maybe there's a pattern.