Quote from: Omega;1127482That and the lamellars were lighter and better suited the more mobile fighting styles of the east.

This is why I figured that (again, in 5e terms) lamellar was better represented as a variation of scale mail (a medium armor) than with a variation of a heavy armor type (e.g., splint).

Same protection at a lighter weight. I suspect the trade off was that lamellar type armours need some repair afterwards. But the tradeoff was it was easier to replace parts. Who knows. But I'd go still with splint for 5e to represent the full suit.

OA had that piece-by-piece system as well.

Quote from: Omega;1127496I'd go still with splint for 5e to represent the full suit.

If you do so, then Dex has no effect on AC in lamellar, and the lamellar requires a (somewhat) high Strength to prevent a reduction in movement rate (unless worn by a dwarf). It just doesn't feel right, especially for cinematic (as opposed to hard historically accurate) lamellar. It could also be possible that there are lighter and heavier variants of lamellar (mirroring the 5e Plate and Half Plate armors) so both answers are correct.

ACKS assigns lamellar armor as AC 5. ACKS puts Chain at AC 4 and Plate at AC 6.

ACKS puts encumbrance in stone as equal to AC, with +1 stone for a spear/polearm and about 1/2 stone for all the rest of your gear. The breakpoints for encumbrance are at 0-4.9, 5-6.9, 7-9.9, and 10+ for movement of 120', 90', 60', and 30'.

The advantage of lamellar then is that it lies just to left of the breakpoint for encumbrance. If I am in lamellar (5) with pike (+1) and side weapon (+1/6), I'm at AC 6 with encumbrance 6.16 with movement 90'. If I am in plate armor (6), I'm at AC 7 with encumbrance 7.16 and movement 60'. The difference in movement speed has very big implications during mass combat.

Quote from: SHARK;1127455I suppose I have this dissonance with the game mechanics and my knowledge of history--great diversities of armies and warriors didn't seem to make the same kinds of choices, across thousands of miles, and centuries of time, you know?

Part of the reason is that historical soldiers seldom had an equipment list with many kinds of armor to choose from the way players do in an RPG. And soldiers in many times and places don't always get to select their own armor. They may get only what the ruler/general/culture provides.

Like many of you, I love to read about historical armor and weapons.  Although it gets tempting to model everything with great granularity, I have recently found myself appreciating more general representations of gear.  I'm currently playing a game that defines armor simply as light, medium, heavy, and allows players to describe it however they like.  In that light, I would consider a full suit of lamellar, including gauntlets and great-helm, made by a master, as heavy armor.  A lamellar hauberk that ends at the elbows and knees, coupled with an open-faced helmet is medium armor.  A lamellar vest to protect the torso alone is light armor, assuming nothing else is worn.

Greetings!

Here is a very cool song about Mongol warriors. Besides the music being awesome, I think that the actual photographs of traditional Mongol warriors, as well as the black and white artwork is pretty inspiring! The scenes of the armour and weapons is very cool.

[video=youtube;3rPtuCvbUtw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rPtuCvbUtw[/youtube]

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Kansas City currently has a nice traveling exhibit on Ghengis "pick your own spelling" Khan and the Mongols. Lots of information and artifacts.

Quote from: Bren;1127696Kansas City currently has a nice traveling exhibit on Ghengis "pick your own spelling" Khan and the Mongols. Lots of information and artifacts.

Greetings!

Oh, damn! That exhibit sounds just awesome! I would love to go to that! Artifacts, weapons, Mongolian music, dancers, gold treasures! What's not to like, you know? I'd pay money to go to that, too, for damned sure. I wonder how they are doing that program with all the lockdown orders?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It was good. I saw it over Christmas holiday, so I don't know what effect KC's lockdown has on what they are doing.

Quote from: Bren;1127776It was good. I saw it over Christmas holiday, so I don't know what effect KC's lockdown has on what they are doing.

Greetings!

Oh, fuck! You went to the exhibit? What did you learn, my friend? What surprised you the most? Damn, that's awesome, Bren. I am so terribly jealous!:D

I had an opportunity to see the Ancient Egypt exhibit at LACMA many years back, back in 2006 I think it was. The Ancient Egypt exhibit only travels to the United States like, once every 25 years. Or so. I remember seeing it for the first time back in 1976, in San Francisco. So, some 30 years apart. Not quite a "Once in a lifetime experience" but close to it.

I learned that Ancient Egypt was a great and mighty empire, and a distinct culture which endured for *millennia* The ancient Egyptians were premier in their day as the greatest of everything, the dominant culture of the age. Their architecture literally aweing the world for centuries. Then there is their writing system; their ancient, mysterious religion; their enduring political system and structure; the noteworthy dynamic that Egypt worked very hard and deliberately to ensure that Egyptian society remained the same, unchanging, for hundreds and even thousands of years. Philosophically, Egypt always struggled to build and maintain Law and Order, resisting Chaos. The Egyptians were premier experts in philosophy, engineering, architecture, medicine, clothing manufacture, cosmetics, perfumes, dancing, and sex. The ancient Egyptians seemed to have the lock on everything to do with sex and sensuality in their day. A truly astounding and fantastic culture!

Then, of course, there was the gold. Gold, and glorious riches that make Bill Gates seem somehow petty in comparison. Besides the huge burial masks and sarcophagi--I saw enormous beds, huge king-size things fashioned from pure, solid gold, carved with hippo heads, and inlaid with turquoise, onyx, and jewels. Chairs crafted from the best bronze, then overlaid with gold and inlaid with ivory, and carved with lion feet on the chair's own feet. Just jaw-dropping incredible artwork, craftsmanship, and majestic, overwhelming wealth. Real wealth, you know? It made me think this treasury is genuinely priceless. This stuff has to be mind-bogglingly valuable and precious. Dragon hoards of fantastic wealth really do exist. *laughs* Ivory inlaid ceramic perfume jars, with elephant head stoppers, inlaid with onyx and pearls for god's sake. Over and over and over, room after room, stuffed with these treasures. Bronze and emerald couches, ivory, gold, onyx, jade, fine woods, the materials used in so many items, it's just stunning. Then you think about the craftsmen that actually crafted all of this stuff. Yeah, the Ancient Egyptians were badass. No wonder they felt like they were anointed and blessed by the gods.

I have a blue ceramic hippo, engraved with runes and such, a replica of some kind from similar artwork the Egyptians had. Except theirs was some fine stone, inlaid with turquoise and so on. My blue hippo isn't a great treasure--it cost me I think $50 dollars, but it is a nice memento from the Ancient Egypt exhibit. Such a wonderful trip, to see such majestic beauty and cultural and historical artifacts, from thousands and thousands of years ago. I love these kinds of experiences!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Arrows of Indra has lamellar armor. It gives you AC16.

Quote from: SHARK;1127784Oh, fuck! You went to the exhibit? What did you learn, my friend? What surprised you the most? Damn, that's awesome, Bren. I am so terribly jealous!:D

Lots of stuff was just reintroducing things I'd learned and forgotten or seeing an actual example of something I'd read about. Probably the most interesting thing to me were the models of ger or yurts and the explanation of how they were constructed and erected. Second and third were depictions of siege equipment and the life size model of a Mongol heavy cavalryman. Mongol heavy cavalry are often forgotten or overshadowed by their light cavalry/horse archer troops.