Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1104796Why are we buying Deadlands again?

I bought the original, and liked it so much I bought it again 2nd hand after losing my originals. It's a neat game and a neat setting.
Wasn't interested in the other games in the line. I've got other games if I want to run post-apoc or noir or whatever.

Hensley was right about one thing. Deadlands is his baby.

Since abortion is legal, it's his right to kill it.

Quote from: Orphan81;1104791The fans who are upset about this are in the minority by far. The vast majority of Deadlands fans are excited about this change, and part of it is because it shakes up a setting that's been around for 25 years and was starting to get stale.

Not sure I totally agree.  Certainly the fans who love this change amongst online communities are in the majority online.  But fans of RPGs that participate and post in online communities are in the minority of the total number of people who play RPGs.  I suspect that many, many fans of Deadlands are like I was 24 hours ago, not aware that this was a big deal to a certain group of players and are happily playing their games without a ton of knowledge of this subset of players who consider the alternate CSA history objectionable.  Probably many who play Deadlands, whether Classic or Reloaded, have had experiences similar to mine, where this has never been the focus of their campaigns and thus has never been an issue.

Quote from: Omega;1104779Problem is there are A-LOT of nuts out there who bitch incessantly about games they have not and WILL NOT ever buy. And they DO NOT CARE if you change it to what they demand.

I just don't get why people are so interested in telling others how to live their lives. I'm not a huge fan of D&D, and while I may try to recruit players to another game, I don't try to make the game go away just because it doesn't trip all of my hammers.


I know it is just how people are, and why you see bumper stickers that say Friend's don't let friends drive Fords (Chevrolets) or why people worry about who is kissing who behind closed doors.

Quote from: Toadmaster;1104810I just don't get why people are so interested in telling others how to live their lives. I'm not a huge fan of D&D, and while I may try to recruit players to another game, I don't try to make the game go away just because it doesn't trip all of my hammers.

Roughly speaking, there are a set of people who buy into the idea that there is territory in a war of ideas. So, if other people are playing RPGs in the wrong way, then they'll try to spread their ideas and take over the hobby. From this view, the other side needs to be actively opposed, rather than tolerated.

It's roughly the same logic regardless of whether they're conservatives or liberals. The other side's ideas are poison, and can't be allowed to fester. So, rather than just positively promoting your way of play -- it's important to attack the other side and show how awful they are, rather than stick to what your side is.

They're right in some sense that people do gossip and talk about ideas and people. But mostly I feel this is bullshit. If someone's ideas are actually good, then they can promote them for themselves. They don't have to go on about how bad the other side are.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1104796Why are we buying Deadlands again?

Magic.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1104808Hensley was right about one thing. Deadlands is his baby.

Since abortion is legal, it's his right to kill it.

And ultimately, that is the thing. It is Hensley's intellectual property to do whatever with and all we can do is comment on it.

My own commentary is that I wonder if he thinks that this will increase sales or not, because I have yet to see an instance where concern trolling of a product has led to the product being changed to remove the offending bits and the resulting changes have led to higher product sales or increased profitability for the business.

I fell out of love with Deadlands almost a decade ago. It had nothing to do with what they did with the Confederacy. I'm not inclined to jump back in now, and it has nothing to do with what they are doing with the Confederacy. These days, if I want 'weird west' with Savage Worlds, I'll go totally gonzo and play Savage Rifts.

Quote from: jeff37923;1104817And ultimately, that is the thing. It is Hensley's intellectual property to do whatever with and all we can do is comment on it.

My own commentary is that I wonder if he thinks that this will increase sales or not, because I have yet to see an instance where concern trolling of a product has led to the product being changed to remove the offending bits and the resulting changes have led to higher product sales or increased profitability for the business.

I think the majority of people must buy the core books unaware of the background other than its a supernatural western setting. Up until a few months ago I myself was totally unaware of the Confederacy element in the setting. And its inclusion would not have been an issue had I bought the game way back.

Im really sick of various venues and product being changed to meet the demands of insane people who apparently cannot tell fiction from reality and think that "reading or playing thing = You WILL become that thing!" its like this recent crackheaded piece by Extra Credits on how playing on a a Nazi or terrorist side in a game will make you susceptible to and may even want to become one! No. Im no joking.

Quote from: Omega;1104820Im really sick of various venues and product being changed to meet the demands of insane people who apparently cannot tell fiction from reality and thing that "reading or playing thing = You WILL become that thing!" its like this recent crackheaded piece by Extra Credits on how playing on a a Nazi or terrorist side in a game will make you susceptible to and may even want to become one! No. Im no joking.

Eclipse Phase 1e had a PC/NPC faction called Ultimates that were all about self-perfection and being smugly superior assholes. Over the course of 1e, more materials were released and they were clearly set up to be fascist. Come 2e, and the Ultimates are not considered an appropriate PC faction. But... they put in a sidebar about a fragment of them that still aim for perfection without believing themselves to be superior and are almost a transhuman warrior monk/wandering samurai type.

This thread reminds me of the inverse one on TBP about people screaming about the CSA and how wrong it was to exist.

Y'awl don't play the game. It's not like Deadlands Classic will ever go out of print (they always print more when needed). PEG always updates settings when they revisit them. In Rippers Resurrected, using ripper-tech no longer damns you while it did in the first version. This was done so more character concepts could use ripper-tech (monster parts you rip out and put into yourself).

But yeah, all the pearl-clutching from people who will never play the game because you already have a 200 session OSR sandbox prepared are totally irrelevant. You can speculate on the wider effects of such a change, but your personal dislike of it is just virtue signaling.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1104781Blue Rose has become emblematic of a particular, rather advocacy-dense approach to gaming and storytelling which a lot of people on this site don't share, for various reasons. In itself it's a workable version of the d20 mechanics.

I always liked Blue Rose. I like it more than anything else that has been released from Green Ronin before, or since. Haven't tried The Expanse yet though, really looking forward to giving it a go.

After the mythic age gave way to history, the great city of Aldis was founded. It became a center of learning and the arcane arts. Artists, crafters, scholars, diplomats, healers, and adepts of the arcane arts made their way from all across Aldea to learn and teach. Their skill and knowledge allowed the city to thrive. As its influence spread, Aldis became capitol of a mighty realm.

Six hundred years ago the Shadow Wars began. the Sorcerer Kings warred against one another for more than two hundred and fifty years , each seeking dominance, and eventually the Imperial Throne. In their quest for power they raised armies of the unliving. Using the flesh-shaping arts they produced aberrations and shadowspawn   to fill their ranks, Ogres, night people, troglodytes, and night mare creatures with no name.

I kind of like to think of it as mythic fantasy from the age of Charlemagne, with a healthy dose of Sorcerors and Wizardry thrown, in addition to the historical religion from early Europe. It's a great setting to run as an alternate Europe, where magic and enchantments twisted the fabric of reality there into Althea.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1104752LOL. The last will and testament of a plate of mutton chops.

Make sure to slather yourself in mint sauce.

To be fair, I would probably pair well with a mint sauce.

Quote from: jhkim;1104813Roughly speaking, there are a set of people who buy into the idea that there is territory in a war of ideas. So, if other people are playing RPGs in the wrong way, then they'll try to spread their ideas and take over the hobby. From this view, the other side needs to be actively opposed, rather than tolerated.

It's roughly the same logic regardless of whether they're conservatives or liberals. The other side's ideas are poison, and can't be allowed to fester. So, rather than just positively promoting your way of play -- it's important to attack the other side and show how awful they are, rather than stick to what your side is.

They're right in some sense that people do gossip and talk about ideas and people. But mostly I feel this is bullshit. If someone's ideas are actually good, then they can promote them for themselves. They don't have to go on about how bad the other side are.

Are you serious? The people that complain about this by far the most are the SJW's. It's their metahobby within the hobby. Deconstructing the conceits of any-and-all RPG's is a thing. Even in their own respective turf - like WoD. Watching them virtue signal non-stop about the horrors of Rape(tm) and Sexual Assault(tm) while Vampire is pretty fucking rapey and the gyrations of those internal fights... we can go down the list of popular deconstruction-isms that have emerged since this ideology took firm hold.

Mind you - none of this is true or done with the intentions as leveled by the SJW's - these are just what SJW's have argued in their faux outrage in the last few years.

D&D
Problematic appropriation of cultures (i.e. Kitchen sink analog cultures are appropriating real-world issues without addressing those cultures oppression), Orientalism (Oriental Adventures - because saying Lands to the East in Latin is racist, but saying Lands to the East in Greek is not), Representation issues of POC and Alphabet People (not enough of them), Colonial Thematic issues (Maztica), Orc are analogs to "Black people" - because of D&D's inherent roots in Tolkien (who was apparently racist), The Transgender Elf issue, Drow are Evil because they are Black which is racist, Half-Orcs/Elf as playable races endorses rape, Grotesque Misogyny in defining gender-specific stats as an example of D&D's inherent patriarchal view etc. I could go on...

World of Darkness
Vampire is a Rape Simulator, Werewolf culture is intensely Misogynist, WoD is pro-White Supremacy (Get of Fenris, Nazis, oh my!) Racism galore - Gypsy. Cultural appropriation. Transphobia - Tzimisce. Publishers of new WoD are white supremacists because . Orientalism (Kuei-Jin). Rapey Fae (Changeling: The Lost) etc. etc.

Call of Cthulhu
Racist by association (Lovecraft). Racist by setting conceit (everyone in the 20's was a raging racist). Orientalism (which is just more racism). etc.

Deadlands
Pro-Confederate States of America - because Deadlands acknowledges they exist, Whitewashing Slavery, Racism (because you can actually play someone from the South or CSA), Orientalism and Cultural Appropriation (Chinese representation in the game is caricatures), Misogyny and Patriarchy - it's the Wild West. Not enough Alphabet representation.

I could list more... but you know. And who on the other side is complaining about any of this shit being *real* or even impactful? Practically no one. What people on the other side complain about is the level of outrage levied at not just these games - but pretty much all entertainment these days being infected by these SJW asshats and their retarded ideas. I mean retarded in the exact multi-dimensional manner it can be applied - "less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age. Very foolish or stupid."

Quote from: tenbones;1104847I could list more... but you know.

Some of your explanations are completely wrong, but even if you were RIGHT, that doesn't mean that there aren't things that are presented badly and could be improved.  Have you ever read an adventure and didn't have some thoughts about how it could have been improved?  What's wrong with trying to make the game better?