Quote from: Melan;557219This also implies something else, though: look beyond the usual boundaries. Or as Greg Costykian put it to video game designers,

A good quote. I'm sure whatever I come up with will be differentiated as a whole from DDN, in any case. I'm after a different pace, and an ever so slightly different genre (My "Appendix N" would include stuff like Hellboy, Princess Mononoke, Fullmetal Alchemist, and A:tLA for example).

It's inevitable, I think. I had a bunch of notes written up on a rules system using a "roll 3d10, keep the best" core mechanic when Blue Planet v2 came out.

Theirs was better.

Notebook, meet trashcan....

Quote from: Melan;557219(Also, as we can see from all the Internet drama, they are Comic Sans-using bastards. Yep, that's right! Someone ought to take back those medals. )

I'd think "I wonder if they got that from the same place I did?"

Chances are good your ideas aren't completely original in the first place. People who read and think a lot about RPG mechanics absorb a lot of things from a lot of different places. There's a good chance any "original" idea you had was influenced by something, even subconsciously.

Back in Canada, I ran a Star Wars D20 campaign, the campaign started after Episode I was released, but before episodes II or III.  The speculative way I ran the events that would play out in the next two movies proved to be eerily similar to how the movies actually went.

Though, I think, somewhat less lame.

RPGPundit

Quote from: One Horse Town;557168I've been tinkering with 'Advantage' for months before i heard it mentioned for 5e, shit even some stuff from 13th Age seems to be startlingly similar to stuff i've been working on.

I tried a form of what 5e is calling the advantage system back in the early 1980s. It worked pretty much like 5e's but I called them a bonus die and a penalty die. We did not like it because the odds varied so much with what roll you needed for success. (The same basic reason we never liked bell curve die rolls as success rolls (e.g. the 2d6 in Traveller or the 3d6 in GURPS): the amount of bonus/penalty on received per +1/-1 was too variable.) I was amused to discover that my Sunday group quickly came to a similar conclusion about the Advantage roll in 5e, but were willing to put up with it because it was such an improvement on the bonus tracking needed for 3.x/4e.

However, on the original topic, there aren't many entirely new ideas that haven't been used in RPGs (or house rules for RPGs) at some point in the past 40 years or so. So it isn't surprising to me when something I've seen, used or even believed I had thought up is used in a new game and considered a "new creation."

Quote from: RandallS;557663I tried a form of what 5e is calling the advantage system back in the early 1980s. It worked pretty much like 5e's but I called them a bonus die and a penalty die. We did not like it because the odds varied so much with what roll you needed for success. (The same basic reason we never liked bell curve die rolls as success rolls (e.g. the 2d6 in Traveller or the 3d6 in GURPS): the amount of bonus/penalty on received per +1/-1 was too variable.) I was amused to discover that my Sunday group quickly came to a similar conclusion about the Advantage roll in 5e, but were willing to put up with it because it was such an improvement on the bonus tracking needed for 3.x/4e.

However, on the original topic, there aren't many entirely new ideas that haven't been used in RPGs (or house rules for RPGs) at some point in the past 40 years or so. So it isn't surprising to me when something I've seen, used or even believed I had thought up is used in a new game and considered a "new creation."

Aye.

This past weekend, at CONvergence, I sat on "The Future of Dungeons & Dragons" with three WOTC employees (Jennifer Wilkes, Peter Lee and Terry O'Brien) to talk about D&D5.

They mean well.  They're all pleasant, sincere, and earnest in their desire to make The Best D&D Evar.  I'd socialize with them, even play with them, but that doesn't mean I want them making the game.

They are all utterly incompetent.  No sense that game design is anything other than throwing shit together, tossing it at the wall, and hoping that no one sees the man behind the curtain ever fucking left their lips.  No sense of the important of math, of statistics, of fucking game balance, or of anything else that remote resembles competent game design.  No sense of D&D's history (which, as they want a modular game based on prior editions, is fucking important).  No sense that they had any competition from competing media--they specifically denied that MMOs and boardgames were eating their lunch, or that PF honestly posed a threat--and I had a hard time keeping it polite for the duration.

Bloody hell.  Thank the Dice Gods that CONvergence is not a gaming-specific convention.

(Also, Mike Pondsmith's announcement of a new CP2020 edition produced a similar demonstration of utter fucking incompetence.  Retire already.)

As much shit as I get for not knowing earlier editions (despite having played them all and having the books on my shelf), the D&D Next designers do not have any experience with D&D before 3rd edition.  

That wouldn't necessarily be a problem if they didn't think they were going to be inspired by earlier versions, but that was their intent.  I think D&D Next is going to have too much of 4th edition because that's what the designers know and like - heck, it's what they came up with when left to their own devices.  

I don't have much hope that D&D Next will be any good.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;558708This past weekend, at CONvergence, I sat on "The Future of Dungeons & Dragons" with three WOTC employees (Jennifer Wilkes, Peter Lee and Terry O'Brien) to talk about D&D5.

They mean well.  They're all pleasant, sincere, and earnest in their desire to make The Best D&D Evar.  I'd socialize with them, even play with them, but that doesn't mean I want them making the game.

That's how I've felt about everyone who's touched D&D in the last 30 years, so I get you.

QuoteThey are all utterly incompetent.  No sense that game design is anything other than throwing shit together, tossing it at the wall, and hoping that no one sees the man behind the curtain ever fucking left their lips.  

I wonder if this isn't deliberate: if they're not trying to replicate the "try random things, if it's fun for us then it goes in the game" approach of original D&D's "design" (and that's not to denigrate original D&D - I really like the game, it's a close second favorite D&D of mine).

QuoteNo sense of the important of math, of statistics, of fucking game balance, or of anything else that remote resembles competent game design.  

The badness of that is entirely incumbent on how bad you want or need precision machining in your rules, I guess.

QuoteNo sense of D&D's history (which, as they want a modular game based on prior editions, is fucking important).

I'd have liked to have been a fly on the wall for that revelation.  What specifically did they display in terms of not getting the history?

QuoteNo sense that they had any competition from competing media--they specifically denied that MMOs and boardgames were eating their lunch, or that PF honestly posed a threat--and I had a hard time keeping it polite for the duration.

Oh that's just sad.  Despite sales data to the contrary?  Despite that the year it debuted, World of Warcraft made more in a month than all of the RPG industry did that year?  And the gap between those numbers has only continued to grow larger?  That's some serious cognitive dissonance.  

Also regarding PF - WE, THE GAMERS can see the sales data!  How could they deny what's right in front of them!  

Quote(Also, Mike Pondsmith's announcement of a new CP2020 edition produced a similar demonstration of utter fucking incompetence.  Retire already.)

Pondsmith's been rattling around between 1994 and 1996 for 20 years now.  Leave the poor man alone.  80mb hard drives and 4mb RAM computers FOREVAR, YO.  (Which is to say: I agree with you.  Seriously, CP2020?  Who gives a fuck, Mike.  What's next, a giant robot game where you fill in armor boxes and track damage on flowcharts?)

Quote from: deadDMwalking;558807I don't have much hope that D&D Next will be any good.

D&D next killed 4e so from where I'm sitting, I'm happy with it.  Moreover it did it in grand style.  It wasn't like Essentials, where they totally pulled out before coming.  No, they straight up said "screw 4e, we're sorry we trolled 3e, 2e and 1e and original & Basic D&D fans, we're really sorry.  We're throwing 4e out and starting over."

Now...maybe they didn't reinvent AD&D, maybe 5e is just awful but and again, 4e is dead so from where I'm sitting, mission accomplished.  Also: neener neener neener.

Honestly, I don't get either the grave dancing nor the upset surrounding the demise of one's edition. So the game had some noisome fans, but so does every single edition of every game ever. EVER. Spend some time at some of the classic D&D forums or even peruse the blogsphere. Visit the Tao of D&D. That guys got enough asshole all on his own to eclipse nearly the entire 4e fanbase at its worst- and I'm not fucking exaggerating. Even the most apologetic of OSR apologists have given up defending the dude.
Personally, in meat space, I've known far more asshole 1e players than the total numer of of 4e players I've met- by an ordrr of magnitude, at the very least. And I'm thinking that if you're over 35 and honest with yourself you have too. And if it is WoTC that has pissed you off, there are far worse companies that have done far, far more terrible things. I mean fuck, how long does the grudge get held? And really, if you're all orthodox and TSR D&D only, in the wake of 3e, 4e was just sodomizing a dead horse, anyway.

Quote from: RPGPundit;557619...I ran a Star Wars D20 campaign, the campaign started after Episode I...The speculative way I ran the events that would play out in the next two movies proved to be eerily similar to how the movies actually went.

Though, I think, somewhat less lame.

Like that's an accomplishment.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;558827Now...maybe they didn't reinvent AD&D, maybe 5e is just awful but and again, 4e is dead so from where I'm sitting, mission accomplished.  Also: neener neener neener.

You probably need to get out more. Plus, you owe me for the time it's going to take to get this smile off my face.

Quote from: Gib;558863Personally, in meat space, I've known far more asshole 1e players than the total numer of of 4e players I've met- by an ordrr of magnitude, at the very least. And I'm thinking that if you're over 35 and honest with yourself you have too.

Actually, that's not my case. Back in the day the totally nerd-wrecked assholes were the ones shrieking about variants like Chivalry and Sorcery like they were the second coming of Christ, the guys obsessing on stuff like GURPS, and later the Magic the Gathering players flooding the FLGS in search of a Mox.

Quote from: Gib;558863Honestly, I don't get either the grave dancing nor the upset surrounding the demise of one's edition. So the game had some noisome fans, but so does every single edition of every game ever. EVER. Spend some time at some of the classic D&D forums or even peruse the blogsphere. Visit the Tao of D&D. That guys got enough asshole all on his own to eclipse nearly the entire 4e fanbase at its worst- and I'm not fucking exaggerating. Even the most apologetic of OSR apologists have given up defending the dude.

I heard stories about the Tao dude but honestly have never bothered reading his blog. How awful is he, exactly? Do you have links to the most outrageous shit he posted? I'd like to see that.

Quote from: Gib;558863And if it is WoTC that has pissed you off, there are far worse companies that have done far, far more terrible things. I mean fuck, how long does the grudge get held? And really, if you're all orthodox and TSR D&D only, in the wake of 3e, 4e was just sodomizing a dead horse, anyway.

Speaking for myself, I must say I'm not caring about WotC at this point, in the sense that I think this company needs to have a fucking reality check, is really shooting itself in the foot repeatedly, and though it pissed me off repeatedly as well (honestly, pulling Dragon and Dungeon from print was the worse, for my selfish self), I did offer my feedback on Next and hope against all indications to the contrary that they'll publish a decent D&D game this time around. And 4e well... meh. Whatever.

But the grave dancing to piss off the fucking assholes that have been poisoning the well for YEARS on so many message boards and happen to be the same douchebags congregating around SA and going on crusades against publishers like Mongoose? Maybe you haven't noticed, but guys like Ettin, Professor Cirno, Red Mage.. these are the very same guys who were 4venging like total fuckwads all these years... man, just seeing them bitching and moaning at everything we post is a great reward in itself.