Quote from: rytrasmi on November 08, 2021, 10:18:40 AM
There would be no RPGs without capitalism. From the get go, Gygax built D&D to sell. If it weren't for capitalism, D&D would have probably never left Arneson's basement.

It goes even further. Without capitalism, there would never have been a Lord of the Rings for Gygax to rip off.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 08, 2021, 08:52:10 AM
Can't argue that one

This weird disconnect in understanding that people desire quality seems to be a repeating issue with lefties, and the gaming genre (RPGs, vidya, what have you) is no different. It's also why so many of them opt for infestation of existing games, rather than making their own; they don't have any creativity or work ethic.

If someone is only going to talk about it and virtue signal using it, does it matter if it has no quality?  Quality only matters if someone wants to use the thing for its (supposed) intended purpose. 

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on November 08, 2021, 02:15:13 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 08, 2021, 08:52:10 AM
Can't argue that one

This weird disconnect in understanding that people desire quality seems to be a repeating issue with lefties, and the gaming genre (RPGs, vidya, what have you) is no different. It's also why so many of them opt for infestation of existing games, rather than making their own; they don't have any creativity or work ethic.

If someone is only going to talk about it and virtue signal using it, does it matter if it has no quality?  Quality only matters if someone wants to use the thing for its (supposed) intended purpose.

I'm... not sure I grok where you're going with that. Are you referring to the well-known issue of SJWs not actually playing games, just bitching about them?

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 08, 2021, 02:21:23 PM
I'm... not sure I grok where you're going with that. Are you referring to the well-known issue of SJWs not actually playing games, just bitching about them?

Yes, and to their attitudes about "tools" in general.  They don't work.  They don't make anything.  They barely use their imaginations in any meaningful way.  Why would they care if their tools are crap?

They will get their way. Unless they can paint dragons as "evil capitalists exploiting the weak." Well, probably dragons will need to be destroyed so a commie utopia can be achieved.

No point whining about it. If this is where the left wants RPGs to go, then that is where it will go. End of discussion.

Quote from: DragonBane on November 08, 2021, 07:22:27 PM
They will get their way. Unless they can paint dragons as "evil capitalists exploiting the weak." Well, probably dragons will need to be destroyed so a commie utopia can be achieved.

No point whining about it. If this is where the left wants RPGs to go, then that is where it will go. End of discussion.

Dragons that hoard wealth would probably appear evil to these people.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on November 08, 2021, 07:29:46 PM

Quote from: DragonBane on November 08, 2021, 07:22:27 PM
They will get their way. Unless they can paint dragons as "evil capitalists exploiting the weak." Well, probably dragons will need to be destroyed so a commie utopia can be achieved.

No point whining about it. If this is where the left wants RPGs to go, then that is where it will go. End of discussion.

Dragons that hoard wealth would probably appear evil to these people.

I've heard them make that claim.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on November 08, 2021, 07:29:46 PM

Quote from: DragonBane on November 08, 2021, 07:22:27 PM
They will get their way. Unless they can paint dragons as "evil capitalists exploiting the weak." Well, probably dragons will need to be destroyed so a commie utopia can be achieved.

No point whining about it. If this is where the left wants RPGs to go, then that is where it will go. End of discussion.

Dragons that hoard wealth would probably appear evil to these people.

Dragons that hoard wealth are Evil.

They should be putting that capital to work.

I'm going to have a dragonslayer in my next campaign, called Sir Maynard. His escapades will provoke dragons to burn down huge swaths of farmland and cities every few years, and each time he'll claim the devastation would have been much worse without his intervention. His admirers will serve as viziers and chancellors of the exchequer in most of the major kingdoms, creating an endless burn-build cycle.

Quote from: Shasarak on November 08, 2021, 10:48:38 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on November 08, 2021, 07:29:46 PM

Quote from: DragonBane on November 08, 2021, 07:22:27 PM
They will get their way. Unless they can paint dragons as "evil capitalists exploiting the weak." Well, probably dragons will need to be destroyed so a commie utopia can be achieved.

No point whining about it. If this is where the left wants RPGs to go, then that is where it will go. End of discussion.

Dragons that hoard wealth would probably appear evil to these people.

Dragons that hoard wealth are Evil.

They should be putting that capital to work.

I mean, they're evil because of the methods they use to gather wealth involves death. Lots of death. Burning, Looting, Murdering, and extra burning for good measure. Or if you're a White Dragon and can't cause any form of burn, freezing.

Tolkein portrayed Dragons as people who would have vast, VAST amounts of wealth but not actually spend it. Despite never actually using it for anything (and thus it technically being worthless) they'd get utterly pissed if it was stolen, which is why Smaug decided to burn down Laketown after Bilbo stole a silver cup.

If a Dragon garnered wealth through voluntary transactions (perhaps a Metallic dragon would do that) you'd be hard pressed to call them sleeping on their wealth evil. Just lazy.

Anyway, whenever someone says they hate Capitalism, they are, by proxy, saying that you shouldn't be able to go downtown and buy a cup of coffee.

Every jackass I've heard say that they hate capitalism in gaming seems to love the default Traveller free trader campaign.

Quote from: PsyXypher on November 08, 2021, 11:59:31 PM
If a Dragon garnered wealth through voluntary transactions (perhaps a Metallic dragon would do that) you'd be hard pressed to call them sleeping on their wealth evil. Just lazy.

In a sense, give me your money or I will eat you is a voluntary transaction.

Quote from: PsyXypher on November 08, 2021, 11:59:31 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on November 08, 2021, 10:48:38 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on November 08, 2021, 07:29:46 PM

Quote from: DragonBane on November 08, 2021, 07:22:27 PM
They will get their way. Unless they can paint dragons as "evil capitalists exploiting the weak." Well, probably dragons will need to be destroyed so a commie utopia can be achieved.

No point whining about it. If this is where the left wants RPGs to go, then that is where it will go. End of discussion.

Dragons that hoard wealth would probably appear evil to these people.

Dragons that hoard wealth are Evil.

They should be putting that capital to work.

I mean, they're evil because of the methods they use to gather wealth involves death. Lots of death. Burning, Looting, Murdering, and extra burning for good measure. Or if you're a White Dragon and can't cause any form of burn, freezing.

Tolkein portrayed Dragons as people who would have vast, VAST amounts of wealth but not actually spend it. Despite never actually using it for anything (and thus it technically being worthless) they'd get utterly pissed if it was stolen, which is why Smaug decided to burn down Laketown after Bilbo stole a silver cup.

If a Dragon garnered wealth through voluntary transactions (perhaps a Metallic dragon would do that) you'd be hard pressed to call them sleeping on their wealth evil. Just lazy.

Anyway, whenever someone says they hate Capitalism, they are, by proxy, saying that you shouldn't be able to go downtown and buy a cup of coffee.

So, according to Tolkien, my AD&D2e wizard is a Dragon? 

My first post here (hello).

I mostly abstain from voicing my opinions online (I am a dirty symmetrist so both sides don't care about what I have to say), but I just have to.

Been there, seen that. I grew up in socialist country in eighties.
RPGs were out of question. Well, most of the fantasy literature was out of question because it was useless product of dirty capitalism and limited publishing resources should be rather used to promote "worthwhile" content (there were party-appointed people who decided what's worthwhile and what's not).
Science fiction was kinda ok, but only kinda, because ya know, USSR was launching cosmonauts into space, so we were allowed to fantasise about that.

So, when I was 12, I remember waiting 4 months to borrow Lord of the Rings trilogy from older brother of my classmate. Forget about getting it in bookstore or public library.     
There was no chance of publishing any roleplaying game. In socialism it all depended on the whim of the people who decided what's good for you and what is not. Late into 80s when system started to crumble, somebody independently published rip-offs of Talisman and Citadel of Blood boardgames and we tried to make our own rpgs based on that. English-language Players Handbook was probably worth its weight in gold even thou very few of us knew english back then!
So, from my own experience, no, socialism definitely isn't rpg-friendly system.

As a symmetrist, I have to add, that while capitalism doesn't care, conservatism isn't particularly rpg friendly as well and in eighties I remember rpg clubs banned from public schools "because religion teacher had objections".

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 07, 2021, 09:58:14 PM
No, no, Pundit, you're obviously wrong, just look at all the marvelous and fun RPGs that came out of the USSR prior to 1988, all the wondrously creative RPGs we're getting from North Corea, China and Cuba!

You're obviously wrong and need to be re-educated!

Wrong indeed, since the USSR was a major producer and exporter of RPGs. As well as rifles, sidearms, tanks, and other fun toys beloved all over the world.

Thank you, thank you, I will be here all day!