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There's a certain group of people in the RPG hobby who want to segregate gamers according to their sexuality, race or gender.
They're called SJWs.

[video=youtube_share;IErUFVyD008]https://youtu.be/IErUFVyD008[/youtube]

That's pretty dumb.  

It's really not hard to find some individual claiming something stupid and then applying it to a much larger group.  Everyone I've seen get the SJW label has been in-support of INCLUSIVITY in gaming, not segregation.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1113890That's pretty dumb.  

It's really not hard to find some individual claiming something stupid and then applying it to a much larger group.  Everyone I've seen get the SJW label has been in-support of INCLUSIVITY in gaming, not segregation.

....
[video=youtube;_fjEViOF4JE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fjEViOF4JE[/youtube]

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1113890That's pretty dumb.  

It's really not hard to find some individual claiming something stupid and then applying it to a much larger group.  Everyone I've seen get the SJW label has been in-support of INCLUSIVITY in gaming, not segregation.

Unless said minority happens to be right of Karl Marx.  Then they are traitors to their own race.

The Right: finds leftist idiots on the worst social media platform and props them up as representative of SJW gamers.

Also the Right: Says Trump is not a racist even when several of his Presidential advisers end up having ties to white nationalist circles.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1113890That's pretty dumb.  

It's really not hard to find some individual claiming something stupid and then applying it to a much larger group.  Everyone I've seen get the SJW label has been in-support of INCLUSIVITY in gaming, not segregation.

Except these supposed "individuals" are progressively taking over media with their screeds and we've had movies and games actually cancelled over this insane idea these cultists have of what being "inclusive" is.

Quote from: Libertad;1113934Also the Right: Says Trump is not a racist even when several of his Presidential advisers end up having ties to white nationalist circles.

Psst: Trump was in the public eye for over 30 years, hanging out with Clintons, Oprah, Jackson, and others...nobody seriously called him a racistsexisthomophobe until he ran against a D.

And as far as "several" "ties" "white nationalist" and "circles," yeah, that's quite the string of nebulous shadow and gossamer words there.

Quote from: Libertad;1113934The Right: finds leftist idiots on the worst social media platform and props them up as representative of SJW gamers.

Also the Right: Says Trump is not a racist even when several of his Presidential advisers end up having ties to white nationalist circles.

Cannot tell this is a troll account, or not.

Quote from: Doom;1113936Psst: Trump was in the public eye for over 30 years, hanging out with Clintons, Oprah, Jackson, and others...nobody seriously called him a racistsexisthomophobe until he ran against a D.

And as far as "several" "ties" "white nationalist" and "circles," yeah, that's quite the string of nebulous shadow and gossamer words there.

You mean aside from the Department of Justice, who successfully prosecuted Cheeto Mussolini and his Ku Kluxer daddy for discriminating against black and Hispanic people back in the 1970s? Oh, and the people who, 30 years ago, were disgusted when he took out a full-page ad calling for five black teenagers to be killed for a crime they didn't commit?

You are one dumb twat.

Cant we just keep the talk on how we need more segregation in RPGs rather then who triggered who?

Yeah, I thought political talk was poo poo unless it's was gaming related?

/still in nostalgia spasms over Kool-Aid Man commercials.
:cool:
Why haven't I already made Kool-Aid Man as my PC? "Oh Yeah!"

Fair enough, I'll let the babble stand.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1113942Cannot tell this is a troll account, or not.

When the OP once made the claim that Monte Cook's a Maoist for making a "consent checklist," I can't really compete with that level of trolldom.

Can we agree that only SOME sjws are calling for segregation? Stacey D does her "no straight white men" thing; the "safe space from swm" thing clearly exists. Stacey doesn't think swm should be allowed to GM for others but afaict most SJWs believe segregation by non-swm should be voluntary, that they should be allowed to play with swm if they want.

Quote from: Shasarak;1113946Cant we just keep the talk on how we need more segregation in RPGs rather then who triggered who?

We seriously need to keep the crazy people away from RPGs. But we've known that for a long time now.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1113951/still in nostalgia spasms over Kool-Aid Man commercials.
:cool:
Why haven't I already made Kool-Aid Man as my PC? "Oh Yeah!"

Probably the next kingdom in the Wendy's RPG. :D

Quote from: S'mon;1113956Can we agree that only SOME sjws are calling for segregation? Stacey D does her "no straight white men" thing; the "safe space from swm" thing clearly exists. Stacey doesn't think swm should be allowed to GM for others but afaict most SJWs believe segregation by non-swm should be voluntary, that they should be allowed to play with swm if they want.

Problem is theres been an increasing push for segregation under the false flag screeching of "appropriation!" and demanding only a person of X race, culture, gender, whatever, can write or draw or anything related to that subject. Of course it is allways directed at whites and males.

It's dumb to limit gamers joining your group based on traits other than "fun to game with", but people have the right of free association. People like to associate with their own kind and feel more comfortable with their own kind, and everyone defines "own kind" differently, whether by politics, gender, ethnic group, favorite edition, etc.

A RPG convention in the Bay Area recently had a "marginalized gamer only" meet & greet event which sounded downright insane, but California is becoming such a shithole in every way, its not really a surprise to see this SJW segregation mentality hit our game cons.

But maybe segregation at our game tables needs to be the new normal.

As the culture war continues to heat up, its going to boil over into violence more and more. If you ever look at violent crime stats, its amazingly domestic. AKA, people mostly hurt people they know, so based on the odds, its not stranger danger, but waiting for someone in your circle to blow.

Yet another reason to silence political talk at the game table.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1113890That's pretty dumb.  

It's really not hard to find some individual claiming something stupid and then applying it to a much larger group.  Everyone I've seen get the SJW label has been in-support of INCLUSIVITY in gaming, not segregation.

Did you watch the video?

Quote from: Doom;1113936Psst: Trump was in the public eye for over 30 years, hanging out with Clintons, Oprah, Jackson, and others...nobody seriously called him a racistsexisthomophobe until he ran against a D.

And as far as "several" "ties" "white nationalist" and "circles," yeah, that's quite the string of nebulous shadow and gossamer words there.

This is off topic. Don't go off topic.

Quote from: Elfdart;1113944You mean aside from the Department of Justice, who successfully prosecuted Cheeto Mussolini and his Ku Kluxer daddy for discriminating against black and Hispanic people back in the 1970s? Oh, and the people who, 30 years ago, were disgusted when he took out a full-page ad calling for five black teenagers to be killed for a crime they didn't commit?

You are one dumb twat.

This is off topic. Don't post off-topic.

Quote from: Libertad;1113934The Right: finds leftist idiots on the worst social media platform and props them up as representative of SJW gamers.

Also the Right: Says Trump is not a racist even when several of his Presidential advisers end up having ties to white nationalist circles.

You might find this shtick works a little better on RPG.net. We're more interested in reality on this board, to be honest.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1113890It's really not hard to find some individual claiming something stupid and then applying it to a much larger group.  Everyone I've seen get the SJW label has been in-support of INCLUSIVITY in gaming, not segregation.

The Inclusivity of the borg. SJWs culture the same way as the borg do. They want to preserve it and value you for your skin and race. But they in no way value you as an individual.


The idea that we want to be all-inclusive is bullshit. Nobody believes it and it's not even possible. Are you gonna be inclusive with race supremacists or people that don't bathe? Of course not.
So what SJWs really support is selective inclusivity. Just like everybody else.
I hear so much fucking moaning from SJWs about empathy or acceptance, discrimination, or valuing others, but that value acceptance or empathy stops right the fuck when it reaches outside their comfort zone.

For instance there is value in un-acceptance. I don't agree with the Pundits opinions about what races or classes people should play or how, but I would say that undeniably has intrinsic value for a type of play. And creating that sort of play requires a level of discrimination (In the literal term of the word not its modern connotations).
And the paradox is that even if you disagree with him, you are discriminating against his taste.

Everything has nuance, and so far what I have seen SJWs support the most was the removal of it.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114000The idea that we want to be all-inclusive is bullshit. Nobody believes it and it's not even possible. Are you gonna be inclusive with race supremacists or people that don't bathe? Of course not.
So what SJWs really support is selective inclusivity. Just like everybody else.

The idea that needs to be challenged isn't who is more inclusive. It's that the goal of inclusivity is, somehow, an admiral goal that needs to be strived for. Pundit needs to stop saying "D&D has always been inclusive" because that just feeds the narrative. It's one thing to say, "I sell shoes and I want as many people from all backgrounds to buy my shoes" and another to invite those people to your table for a four hour play session.

Unless he's running a demo game at a store or con, a GM should have total authority to reject players for any reason he sees fit without being branded as a "racist" or "bigot" in the process.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1114013Unless he's running a demo game at a store or con, a GM should have total authority to reject players for any reason he sees fit without being branded as a "racist" or "bigot" in the process.

GATEKEEPING ALERT! GATEKEEPING ALERT! :eek:

I think a big part of the problem is how loud some people get when it comes to how "progressive" they want to appear BY EXCLUDING SPECIFIC PEOPLE from their games, and call that social justice (because it ain't that). If anyone is actually claiming that is 'social justice', they are wrong. So let's stop calling those specific people SJWs and call them bigots instead.

The whole SJW label is all sorts of problematic at this point when used in this context. If you see exclusion behavior in the gaming community, call those people out on it, rather than apply a dumb label and get people riled up about what is ultimately nonsense. When Pundit calls out SJWs for being exclusive, it invokes the idea that all those who even remotely think social justice and equality should be a thing as actual bigots. Pushing that narrative is divisive nonsense.

I understand that some folks experience harassment and wish to push back against it, unfortunately exclusion is not the right way to solve or even approach the issue. Let's condemn the behavior of exclusion, and stop applying labels that don't and won't solve anything.

Quote from: Libertad;1113934The Right: finds leftist idiots on the worst social media platform and props them up as representative of SJW gamers.

Also the Right: Says Trump is not a racist even when several of his Presidential advisers end up having ties to white nationalist circles.

The "Left": Finds rightist idiots on the most obscure image board in the ass end of the internet and props them up as representative of Trump supporters and Trump's own personal views.

Also the "Left": Says SJWs are not pro-segregation racists even though mainstream media outlets parrot their ideas and anyone who disagrees with them gets publicly shamed with wide demands for their immediate censorship from all social media and the internet.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1113890That's pretty dumb.  

It's really not hard to find some individual claiming something stupid and then applying it to a much larger group.  Everyone I've seen get the SJW label has been in-support of INCLUSIVITY in gaming, not segregation.

In practice, "inclusivity" and "diversity (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE-_weLRLK4)" are all about cultivating narcissistic victimology. I don't see much difference between the hysteria on college campuses and the Salem witch hunts in terms of disassociation from reality; many college students, who are some of the most privileged and pampered people in the world, literally believe they are under attack by some malevolent, oppressive force. They are being conditioned to attribute internal feelings of distress, namely depression and anxiety, to external sources, when in reality their internal distress is largely generated by fundamentally dysfunctional lives. Sexual abuse, social alienation, and lack of meaning, particularly for young women who would historically have 2 or 3 children by now, are some of the driving forces causing anguish. Of course, this makes them more easily manipulated by political malfeasance.

Quote from: S'mon;1113956Can we agree that only SOME sjws are calling for segregation? Stacey D does her "no straight white men" thing; the "safe space from swm" thing clearly exists. Stacey doesn't think swm should be allowed to GM for others but afaict most SJWs believe segregation by non-swm should be voluntary, that they should be allowed to play with swm if they want.

I don't understand what is meant by voluntary segregation versus involuntary. I am opposed the idea that having a female-only bachelorette party, say, means that the organizer sexist and segregationist. I think having a female-only bachelorette party or an LGBT-only meetup is voluntary and fine. It's not inherently sexist/discriminatory to have such limited-participation events. It's not that the women in the party are opposed to men, but that there are some things that can be experienced in a women-only group that are different than in a mixed group. Likewise, it's fine for there to be male-only groups, like a bachelor party or a men's group.

Pundit is joining in on a trend of cries of "Sexist!" / "Discriminatory!" / etc. here -- and I think it's typical of reverse logic. Hiring only men for management at a company would be sexist, but having a men's group or guy's night out is fine, IMO.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1114013The idea that needs to be challenged isn't who is more inclusive. It's that the goal of inclusivity is, somehow, an admiral goal that needs to be strived for. Pundit needs to stop saying "D&D has always been inclusive" because that just feeds the narrative. It's one thing to say, "I sell shoes and I want as many people from all backgrounds to buy my shoes" and another to invite those people to your table for a four hour play session.

Unless he's running a demo game at a store or con, a GM should have total authority to reject players for any reason he sees fit without being branded as a "racist" or "bigot" in the process.

I agree that just having voluntary associations isn't inherently bigoted. I disagree with Pundit's claim that having an LGBT-only gaming group, say, is inherently bigoted and segregationist. There might be genuine bigots who would do such a thing, but just having the group isn't proof that someone is bigoted.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1113966It's dumb to limit gamers joining your group based on traits other than "fun to game with", but people have the right of free association. People like to associate with their own kind and feel more comfortable with their own kind, and everyone defines "own kind" differently, whether by politics, gender, ethnic group, favorite edition, etc.

A RPG convention in the Bay Area recently had a "marginalized gamer only" meet & greet event which sounded downright insane, but California is becoming such a shithole in every way, its not really a surprise to see this SJW segregation mentality hit our game cons.

But maybe segregation at our game tables needs to be the new normal.

As the culture war continues to heat up, its going to boil over into violence more and more.

This is nonsense, in my opinion. I think it's fine for there to be a few bachelor parties or guys night out, without it being the new normal that everything has to be sex-segregated. Likewise, an LGBT-only gaming group somewhere doesn't mean there will be a violent culture war within gaming against straight people.

I think you're talking about Big Bad Con. I was at the con, and I wasn't at that meet-and-greet, but I did attend the People of Color Dinner. I didn't get a lot out of it (other than getting fed OK dim sum), but I also don't think it's some sort of violent threat to white people.

Not giving a shit about the gender, race, or sexual orientation of who you play with is an admirable goal. Tallying up the representation of those groups in every RPG book, piece of artwork, and gaming table, then fretting if they don't tick every group identity, is the goal of dogmatic zealots.

Table A: Five straight white men.

Table B: 1 straight white man, 1 straight white woman, 1 white lesbian, 1 woman of colour, 1 Asian man.

Table C: Five lesbian women of colour.


Q: Which table is more virtuous or desirable for the RPG hobby?

A: No information I've given about those tables has any bearing on virtue or desirability.

Quote from: jhkim;1114028I think having a female-only bachelorette party or an LGBT-only meetup is voluntary and fine. It's not inherently sexist/discriminatory to have such limited-participation events. It's not that the women in the party are opposed to men, but that there are some things that can be experienced in a women-only group that are different than in a mixed group. Likewise, it's fine for there to be male-only groups, like a bachelor party or a men's group.

So it's OK by you, at a convention, to have a 'men only' game running? What about 'whites only'?
The 'women only' and 'LGBT' only games are likely NOT going to get a peep from the folks running the con... but I'm guessing the other two would.

Not that I'd want to play in any of those... I like a solid mix of people to play with.

Quote from: Simlasa;1114041So it's OK by you, at a convention, to have a 'men only' game running? What about 'whites only'?
The 'women only' and 'LGBT' only games are likely NOT going to get a peep from the folks running the con... but I'm guessing the other two would.

Not that I'd want to play in any of those... I like a solid mix of people to play with.

Well, one question I would have is why a whites only or men's only game? Our church has women's groups and men's groups. I think that is a good thing. I admit that I would question the motive of a men's only game, but there might be some legitimate reasons for such. In the context of a game convention, I see minority only events as a way for that minority to get to play in a convention setting without experiencing the things they experience out in the world.

As someone married to a woman of color, I get first hand exposure to the fact that she is NOT treated the same as me. I have had people face me and give an answer to her question to ME. Given what I have seen, I don't blame women, or people of color, or any other minority for wanting to have a place to game without having that kind of stuff happen. Now there are a number of good people who game, and they probably can also find good games in mixed company.

Until it REALLY doesn't matter who you are, people who have been unfairly treated differently deserve the opportunity to have experiences where they are treated fairly.

That said, I think some people go too far. So while I don't like the SJW label to be thrown around the way it does, I grant that there ARE some people who DO act the way SJWs are described to act.

Quote from: ffilz;1114049Well, one question I would have is why a whites only or men's only game?

Maybe for players who don't want anyone at the table to misconstrue anything they say as being an attack/unwanted attention (safety from accusations)? Or as Jhkim suggests, "there are some things that can be experienced in a men-only group." (whatever that might be).
Regardless, their motives WILL be questioned, as you have done.

Really, I was only poking at Jhkim's post... and suggesting not all 'of a type' groups would be treated to equal tolerance.

Quote from: Simlasa;1114051Maybe for players who don't want anyone at the table to misconstrue anything they say as being an attack/unwanted attention (safety from accusations)? Or as Jhkim suggests, "there are some things that can be experienced in a men-only group." (whatever that might be).
Regardless, their motives WILL be questioned, as you have done.

Really, I was only poking at Jhkim's post... and suggesting not all 'of a type' groups would be treated to equal tolerance.

And that is a fair point. I'm really not sure what the solution is. I would like a world where a men's only group at a game con WOULDN'T be questioned. Maybe men want to game together for the same reason the men's group at church wants to meet together, not so they can bash women, but sadly, the assumption today is that they would be wanting a men's only group so they can bash women. I dunno. I don't think all locker room talk is bad.

Quote from: Simlasa;1114051Maybe for players who don't want anyone at the table to misconstrue anything they say as being an attack/unwanted attention (safety from accusations)? Or as Jhkim suggests, "there are some things that can be experienced in a men-only group." (whatever that might be).
Regardless, their motives WILL be questioned, as you have done.

Really, I was only poking at Jhkim's post... and suggesting not all 'of a type' groups would be treated to equal tolerance.

Quote from: ffilz;1114052And that is a fair point. I'm really not sure what the solution is. I would like a world where a men's only group at a game con WOULDN'T be questioned. Maybe men want to game together for the same reason the men's group at church wants to meet together, not so they can bash women, but sadly, the assumption today is that they would be wanting a men's only group so they can bash women. I dunno. I don't think all locker room talk is bad.

I agree that not all groups would face the same tolerance. What would go over well or not would depend on location and culture. That said, I think there is room for openness. My church is super-liberal, but we have a men's group and as far as I can tell no one questions it. I'm pretty sure an LGBT group in my uncle's Baptist church would be met with considerably less tolerance.

I think we should work to fight against *actual* prejudice and segregation. But having a men's group or an LGBT-only group or similar is not inherently bigoted.

Quote from: jhkim;1114056I think we should work to fight against *actual* prejudice and segregation. But having a men's group or an LGBT-only group or similar is not inherently bigoted.

Yeah, I agree with all that.
I never had an issue with Contessa's female-only GMs stance either.

Quote from: jhkim;1114028I don't understand what is meant by voluntary segregation versus involuntary.

Voluntary segregation is YOU choosing to join or not join a group because of your identity.

Involuntary segregation is YOU being excluded from a group because of your identity.

If I pay to attend a RPG convention and I choose to only play with XYZ People that's voluntary segregation.

If I pay to attend a RPG convention and I am not allowed to participate in certain events because of my ethnicity, gender or sexuality, that's involuntary segregation.

Quote from: jhkim;1114028I think you're talking about Big Bad Con. I was at the con, and I wasn't at that meet-and-greet, but I did attend the People of Color Dinner. I didn't get a lot out of it (other than getting fed OK dim sum), but I also don't think it's some sort of violent threat to white people.

You're smarter than this. What the fuck does your skin color have to do with gaming???

And being half-Korean gives you a magical connection with gamers of African, Latino, Middle East descent and every flavor of Asian that couldn't exist with gamers of European descent? Do your really believe there's something "non-white" gamers share universally? In 2019 America? Especially in the Bay Area?

WTF.

Big Bad Con is pushing bullshit divisiveness. Should there be a "Whites Only Dinner" held at BBC next year in the next room? Of course, the worthless garbage who run that convention would freak the fuck out at such an idea.

Identity politics has only one endgame: violence. We have innumerable examples in the last century that whenever you divide people, you get violence. That's how humans roll. The more you divide, the more violence. Am I saying will there be violence at game cons? Who knows? We have people getting killed over chicken sandwiches now. We have people getting beaten up for supporting their president. The culture war is heating up and a hot culture war only goes to violence and nobody knows where the next flashpoint might be.

The entire point of the civil rights movement was UNITY, not "the People of Color Dinner" at a public event where the only division should be what kewl elf games you're most excited to play that weekend.

Jesus fuck this shit is depressing.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1114149Jesus fuck this shit is depressing.

And then there are those of us who know, from unfortunate experience, that skin tone, gender pronouns, where you were born, etc ad nausium, means nothing to these sociopaths because they will allways find something new to crusade against under their fake flag of concern when its really just the same old hatreds with a new paint job, but the same old methods of driving wedges between people.

And the irony is that many companies and self interest groups fostered this and now it is coming full circle to stab them in the back as they so richly deserve. And not fast enough.

If a white man tries to get into a LGBTQ+ game, how do the people running the game know if he's gay or not. Are they supposed to say "Are you gay?" (which could be considered pretty rude at the very least) and if he refuses to answer (as that is really nobody at the tables' business) does he get booted out, even if he is gay (or one other of the 100+ genders that are supposed to qualify as "oppressed")? This is total nonsense.

It wont ever stop at just that. Eventually the exclusion will be because you arent gay "enough" you arent black "enough" (and that bit of nastyness has been around probably longer than I have).

Quote from: Antiquation!;1114014GATEKEEPING ALERT! GATEKEEPING ALERT! :eek:

When I was growing up I was told that gatekeeping was the devil. That there where so many great gamers just over the horizon being kept out by those unfair standards!
In reality, all that happened is that it attracted people who where never super interested in the core experience anyway, overwhelmed those that were, and became gatekeepers for the original guard that ask for a more classic experience.

Discrimination is unavoidable. Just choose the flavor you like.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114180In reality, all that happened is that it attracted people who where never super interested in the core experience anyway, overwhelmed those that were, and became gatekeepers for the original guard that ask for a more classic experience.

LOL, indeed! I posted a similar sentiment somewhere over on Pundit's forum.

"Hey, thanks for inviting me over! Wow, it's really nice in here. Actually, now this is my house. Once I throw all this terrible stuff out and finish redecorating, anyway. Why are you freaking out? This is MY couch, I can throw it away if I want to! If you don't like my new curtains then go find your OWN house, fucking bigot!" *puts out the 'no whites / punch nazis' welcome mats, strokes blue check mark, blows a fat vape cloud in your face*

You guys are such raging bigots. What's so difficult about playing the game the way that random people who aren't even gonna be at your table (or for all we know even play the game) want you to? It's called being a decent human being! Why don't you just admit this is about excluding marginalized people from a historically white and heteronormative hobby cuz you don't wanna give up your unearned privilege? I'm literally shaking! I mean, I can't even! :mad:

Quote from: Spinachcat;1114149Voluntary segregation is YOU choosing to join or not join a group because of your identity.

Involuntary segregation is YOU being excluded from a group because of your identity.

If I pay to attend a RPG convention and I choose to only play with XYZ People that's voluntary segregation.

If I pay to attend a RPG convention and I am not allowed to participate in certain events because of my ethnicity, gender or sexuality, that's involuntary segregation.

Voluntary segregation seems impossible by your definitions. Let's say there are four gay gamers who want to play an all-gay game with each other. But what if a straight gamer wants to join their game? If they exclude him, then it's involuntary segregation. So it's impossible for people who want to have an all-gay game to get it by voluntary association.

This sounds like everyone has a *right* to game with whoever they want -- regardless of the wishes of those people. If those people don't want to game with the person joining, then they're excluding - and thus forcing involuntary segregation on that person. That doesn't make sense to me.

Now, the standard in conventions is that all events are open to everyone -- and that's fine as the norm if that's how the con organizers want to do it. But it's not like that means that someone has the *right* to jump in on anyone's game regardless of their wishes. I've also seen some invite-only events at conventions, for example. If a con has too many invite-only events, then people might stop buying tickets -- but that's part of the free market and free association.

Quote from: jhkim;1114202Voluntary segregation seems impossible by your definitions. Let's say there are four gay gamers who want to play an all-gay game with each other. But what if a straight gamer wants to join their game? If they exclude him, then it's involuntary segregation. So it's impossible for people who want to have an all-gay game to get it by voluntary association.

I assume that gay people have private houses where they can go to play their gay games voluntarily.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1114199You guys are such raging bigots. What's so difficult about playing the game the way that random people who aren't even gonna be at your table (or for all we know even play the game) want you to? It's called being a decent human being! Why don't you just admit this is about excluding marginalized people from a historically white and heteronormative hobby cuz you don't wanna give up your unearned privilege? I'm literally shaking! I mean, I can't even! :mad:

:p

There there VisionStorm, let us retreat to our safe space together and indulge in a nice soy latte until all this fascism has blown over!

So, are we cool with freezing out the SJWs now? Since we can choose who we discriminate against, we can kick their asses out of forums, mailing lists and gaming groups both online and IRL.

Just trying to make sure I'm not being a hypocitre. It's so hard to keep up on the rules of engagement.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1114225So, are we cool with freezing out the SJWs now? Since we can choose who we discriminate against, we can kick their asses out of forums, mailing lists and gaming groups both online and IRL.

Just trying to make sure I'm not being a hypocitre. It's so hard to keep up on the rules of engagement.

I'm good with that. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't want to play with SJWs, then you shouldn't have to.

The Glorious Revolution! (un-tm) shall only be complete once we conquer the proper way how to pretend to be an elf! :mad: (Seriously? That's the latest politburo's orderz? :confused: ) Onward komrades! :p

Eh, it's Clown World, kids. :p Just remember not to get too caught up in the act, lest you find yourself part of the show. :D "'I want my money back! I want my money back!' Just enjoy The Show" -- Lenka

Quote from: jhkim;1114028II think having a female-only bachelorette party or an LGBT-only meetup is voluntary and fine. It's not inherently sexist/discriminatory to have such limited-participation events. It's not that the women in the party are opposed to men, but that there are some things that can be experienced in a women-only group that are different than in a mixed group. Likewise, it's fine for there to be male-only groups, like a bachelor party or a men's group.

You're fine with a "straight white men only" RPG convention or Meetup? I bet you're not, and you should not conflate private events like a hen night with a public event like a convention.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1114225So, are we cool with freezing out the SJWs now? Since we can choose who we discriminate against, we can kick their asses out of forums, mailing lists and gaming groups both online and IRL.

While I'm the one who argued for gatekeeping: Yes but don't do it.
Don't let them control the conversation and keep their hands away from the reigns of power but let them in to whine.

You can only become a smarter person from hearing every perspective. Hearing doesn't mean agree with, mind you.

Quote from: jhkimI think having a female-only bachelorette party or an LGBT-only meetup is voluntary and fine. It's not inherently sexist/discriminatory to have such limited-participation events. It's not that the women in the party are opposed to men, but that there are some things that can be experienced in a women-only group that are different than in a mixed group. Likewise, it's fine for there to be male-only groups, like a bachelor party or a men's group.

Quote from: S'mon;1114255You're fine with a "straight white men only" RPG convention or Meetup? I bet you're not, and you should not conflate private events like a hen night with a public event like a convention.

I'd be very suspicious of the motivations, but I wouldn't dismiss it inherently wrong.

It's similar to claims that African people's genetics are linked to lower IQ. I can't and shouldn't dismiss that it's impossible or inherently racist, but I'm very suspicious - particularly based on who I've seen claiming this and the history of the claims.

In part, this is because in most American conventions, it's pretty trivial to get all straight white men as players - it happens all the time by coincidence. In places where white people are a small minority - like in the Seoul gaming scene, for example - then an expat meetup would be less suspicious.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1114225So, are we cool with freezing out the SJWs now? Since we can choose who we discriminate against, we can kick their asses out of forums, mailing lists and gaming groups both online and IRL.

Just trying to make sure I'm not being a hypocitre. It's so hard to keep up on the rules of engagement.

If an insane person wanted into your house. Would you just let them walk in and possibly harm you, your family? Are you racist if you dont let an insane black person into your house to kill you? If your answer is "Yes" then you too are insane.

As for SJWs... gosh. What do you think they are doing to people, and worse. Much worse. Do you want crazy people in your forum spouting crazy talk. We just had a few weeks ago a member flip out and proclaim that having x in a game promotes X in real life. And before that we had people, including designers, get a game about exploring and colonizing Africa cancelled because it "promotes Genocide". No. Really.

And at the end of the day... All SJWs are white so if you exclude them from your game session then you are only doing what they told you to do. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114275You can only become a smarter person from hearing every perspective. Hearing doesn't mean agree with, mind you.

No you wont. Listening to crazy people only puts you at risk of being converted. Because these sociopaths are very good at that. I've seen it in action and it can spread like some sort of disease from one person to the next. Normally sane intelligent people just up and go totally off the deep end.

Quote from: Omega;1114376No you wont. Listening to crazy people only puts you at risk of being converted.

The weak-willed yes. And that's also the SJW argument for why they can't afford other opinions.

I have really gotten to understand SJWs, and how to determine the morons, from the malicious to the thieves just using it for personal gain. Identifying their own powerplay and using it against them has actually allowed me to deconvert at least some. And instill doubt in others.

But it was keeping an open mind in the first place that DE-converted me from SJW-ism.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114379The weak-willed yes. And that's also the SJW argument for why they can't afford other opinions.

I have really gotten to understand SJWs, and how to determine the morons, from the malicious to the thieves just using it for personal gain. Identifying their own powerplay and using it against them has actually allowed me to deconvert at least some. And instill doubt in others.

But it was keeping an open mind in the first place that DE-converted me from SJW-ism.

There's gaining information and then there's wasting energy.  It's not an all or nothing proposition with some "ideas".  There are certain types of SWJ blather I have heard so much that I don't need to hear it again to argue against it.  Hell, half the time I could play devil's advocate and make their case better than they can.  You need a mind open enough to see if they've come up with a new tactic or if it is merely someone mindless repeating the cant (and thus not making an argument).  After that, it's noise, not signal.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1114413There's gaining information and then there's wasting energy.  It's not an all or nothing proposition with some "ideas".  There are certain types of SWJ blather I have heard so much that I don't need to hear it again to argue against it.  Hell, half the time I could play devil's advocate and make their case better than they can.  You need a mind open enough to see if they've come up with a new tactic or if it is merely someone mindless repeating the cant (and thus not making an argument).  After that, it's noise, not signal.

True. But even then that (on its own) doesn't mean that its necessary or preferable to simply ban them from the forums, since it's not like posting at a forum is truly analogous to allowing a crazy person about to kill you into your physical residence. The only way they can hurt you here is if they convert the staff, and I seriously doubt Pundit can be converted at this point. Once you're savvy to SJWs BS you pretty much become immune to it. The most they can do is disrupt threads with their nonsense, which can be ignored and potentially get them banned.

Quote from: Omega;1114375And at the end of the day... All SJWs are white so if you exclude them from your game session then you are only doing what they told you to do. :rolleyes:

:p So hilariously true.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114379The weak-willed yes. And that's also the SJW argument for why they can't afford other opinions.

I have really gotten to understand SJWs, and how to determine the morons, from the malicious to the thieves just using it for personal gain. Identifying their own powerplay and using it against them has actually allowed me to deconvert at least some. And instill doubt in others.

But it was keeping an open mind in the first place that DE-converted me from SJW-ism.

It's one thing to "convert" SJWs if you actually care about them (family or whatever), it's another thing to put up with that bullshit in a GAME. I don't play games to be bombarded by ridiculous nonsense, so excluding those idiots is a good idea. Wasting my precious free time trying dealing with that nonsense instead of spending it on something fun is not acceptable. Being open to "different perspectives" is so antithetical to the SJW charade that it's laughable. Those people should be dismissed out of turn and never taken seriously. All these dumbass problems are purely because someone took their stupidity seriously. I will never make that mistake.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1114415True. But even then that (on its own) doesn't mean that its necessary or preferable to simply ban them from the forums, since it's not like posting at a forum is truly analogous to allowing a crazy person about to kill you into your physical residence. The only way they can hurt you here is if they convert the staff, and I seriously doubt Pundit can be converted at this point. Once you're savvy to SJWs BS you pretty much become immune to it. The most they can do is disrupt threads with their nonsense, which can be ignored and potentially get them banned.

I wouldn't advocate banning them from this forum or a similar forum, which is supposed to be open and wide-ranging.  I would ban them from being moderators or otherwise having any authority, and I would certainly give them a (limited) suspension for trolling using certain SJW tactics that are primarily intended to make it impossible for other forum members to engage in discussion.  But that wouldn't be any different than any other trolling behavior--just not giving them special dispensation.

I will ban them from any group that I'm running, because I don't need the hassle.  I would ban them from a targeted forum that I was running to support a game (if I were running such), because again I don't need the hassle.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1114423I wouldn't advocate banning them from this forum or a similar forum, which is supposed to be open and wide-ranging.  I would ban them from being moderators or otherwise having any authority, and I would certainly give them a (limited) suspension for trolling using certain SJW tactics that are primarily intended to make it impossible for other forum members to engage in discussion.  But that wouldn't be any different than any other trolling behavior--just not giving them special dispensation.

I will ban them from any group that I'm running, because I don't need the hassle.  I would ban them from a targeted forum that I was running to support a game (if I were running such), because again I don't need the hassle.

That's understandable in that context. My comment on banning SJWs from the forums came cuz Ratman mentioned at one point in a post that kicked off this line of conversation that:

Quotewe can kick their asses out of forums, mailing lists and gaming groups both online and IRL.

Quote from: Simon W;1114167If a white man tries to get into a LGBTQ+ game, how do the people running the game know if he's gay or not. Are they supposed to say "Are you gay?" (which could be considered pretty rude at the very least) and if he refuses to answer (as that is really nobody at the tables' business) does he get booted out, even if he is gay (or one other of the 100+ genders that are supposed to qualify as "oppressed")? This is total nonsense.

Relevant anecdote (which is not data): a friend of mine (white-appearing male*) went to an "inclusive, friendly, and accepting of everybody!!" gaming event to support it. He's a really strong player, and also a very kind person. After the first session he attended they told him something along the lines of "you're not the kind of person we want at this gathering, please don't come back" -- the organizers didn't even ask, they just assumed he wasn't gay, or struggling with any of the ostensibly onerous sexuality related questions they claim to have so much compassion for, and in need of a friendly space.

It absolutely infuriated me at the time (this was about 5 years ago) and so, despite being their target audience and wanting to support newbies in the game, I never went back either. (They were also rather condescending, assuming that I must be bad at the game and not know anything. Speaking of the bigotry of low expectations.) But with all the other craziness in the past few years I'd completely forgotten about this incident until I saw your post.

In a shocking turn of events that will surprise you all, one (actually, two, I think) of the organizers/chief whiners of this shitshow were hired by the game company to increase the pervasiveness of this kind of thing in the game. Yay.

Spinachcat is right, we need to stop inventing reasons for people to hate each other. It's easier to hate, it feels great to act self-righteous, and it spreads like wildfire.

* I'm not actually sure of his ethnicity and from what I vaguely know he may actually qualify for "oppressed" status

Quote from: Snowman0147;1113923Unless said minority happens to be right of Karl Marx.  Then they are traitors to their own race.

These days Karl Marx is on the far right compared to some of the SJW Liberals.

Quote from: jhkim;1114028I agree that just having voluntary associations isn't inherently bigoted. I disagree with Pundit's claim that having an LGBT-only gaming group, say, is inherently bigoted and segregationist. There might be genuine bigots who would do such a thing, but just having the group isn't proof that someone is bigoted.

I agree with this, if the LGBTQP+ people want to have a perverts only group that is fine with me. As long as it is fine with them that I have an all non-pervert group.:D

Quote from: Spinachcat;1114149And being half-Korean gives you a magical connection with gamers of African, Latino, Middle East descent and every flavor of Asian that couldn't exist with gamers of European descent? Do your really believe there's something "non-white" gamers share universally? In 2019 America? Especially in the Bay Area?

Apparently anyplace in the US it is true these days that all non-whites are superior and connected in ways that the white man can never experience. At least that is what they keep telling us.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1114199You guys are such raging bigots. What's so difficult about playing the game the way that random people who aren't even gonna be at your table (or for all we know even play the game) want you to? It's called being a decent human being! Why don't you just admit this is about excluding marginalized people from a historically white and heteronormative hobby cuz you don't wanna give up your unearned privilege? I'm literally shaking! I mean, I can't even! :mad:

This is crazy. My table, my game, my homebrew world. I will play it anyway I want to and those who don't like it can find another game. I am not forcing anyone to play my game and I am not going to be forced to play my game a certain pervert inclusive way. I don't exclude people based on race, but I will exclude predators all day long.

I run games in public and anyone is welcome to join in. As a straight white male I am actually in the minority as most of my players are either minorities, gay or female. No one has told me to do this, I was raised to give everyone a chance and I do without being told by some group of control freaks.

Quote from: ElBorak;1114448This is crazy. My table, my game, my homebrew world. I will play it anyway I want to and those who don't like it can find another game. I am not forcing anyone to play my game and I am not going to be forced to play my game a certain pervert inclusive way. I don't exclude people based on race, but I will exclude predators all day long.

I was being sarcastic.

QuoteWhat's so difficult about playing the game the way that random people who aren't even gonna be at your table (or for all we know even play the game) want you to?

Was my SJW Fu too strong?

Quote from: VisionStorm;1114501I was being sarcastic.

Poes Law is very much in effect these days. Its terrifying just home much of a reptative joke these people are.

Quote from: ElBorak;1114448This is crazy. My table, my game, my homebrew world. I will play it anyway I want to and those who don't like it can find another game. I am not forcing anyone to play my game and I am not going to be forced to play my game a certain pervert inclusive way. I don't exclude people based on race, but I will exclude predators all day long.

Whadda you, a specieist?

(https://www.sonomanews.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=nfqj9OZnDW29_EKATuuBls$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtZ92OtxGAaq9fxxXYuajtdWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg)

Quote from: RPGPundit;1113873There's a certain group of people in the RPG hobby who want to segregate gamers according to their sexuality, race or gender.
They're called SJWs.

Seems to me that if some gaming group doesn't want me at their table, I don't want to be there.  Simple.  No-brainer.  

Whatever their reasons or motivations, I don't care.  It's a game, a game you should have fun playing.  If my being there means that everyone else can't have fun, I chose to go.  I'm not spiteful.  I have no right to be in their group.  I'm not going to whine about it.

This is NOT segregation in my mind.  Not by ANY stretch of the imagination.  I say this from the perspective of someone that grew up in the South (the south-east region of the USA, excluding Florida) so when you say segregation, that conjures to my mind the context of what it was there; Segregation (note the capitalization).  That was the FORCED BY LAW separation of people in accordance with race.  This group of people deciding to run an LBGTQ-only game is NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL.  The key being there is no force of law behind what they are doing.  You seem to be from Canada, so maybe the word, segregation, has a very different connotation there.  Fine.  Perhaps you wished to be edgy.  Fine.  Maybe you used the term to piss me off.  Fine, mission accomplished.  Ultimately, I don't care about your reasons.

I think the idea is it's 'segregation' if it's enforced from above, eg by Convention organisers. Private assembly wouldn't count, so a home game wouldn't count.

I'll be honest... I used to run tournaments and adventures at LA Conventions for years.

Time spent on forums, the change in gaming culture, the idiots that have raised my awareness to the sheer moronic jackassery that goes on in this hobby by the loud minorities that have largely taken control of such gatherings has flagged away from ever desiring to go run at a convention.

So mission accomplished?

Quote from: Fortunato;1114657That was the FORCED BY LAW separation of people in accordance with race.

Who needs laws when culture does that for you?

Quote from: FortunatoSegregation (note the capitalization). That was the FORCED BY LAW separation of people in accordance with race. This group of people deciding to run an LBGTQ-only game is NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL. The key being there is no force of law behind what they are doing.

Quote from: S'mon;1114694I think the idea is it's 'segregation' if it's enforced from above, eg by Convention organisers. Private assembly wouldn't count, so a home game wouldn't count.

From Pundit's video, it seemed he was applying the accusation against anyone who played games in public - even if it's self-organized.

I agree with Fortunato - a group of LGBT gamers who want to have an all-LGBT game - whether for their home game or a public game - aren't enforcing segregation, any more than a bachelorette party at a local restaurant or any other get-together.

I think SJW sorts maybe do this sort of thing in their proclamations because they dont have IRL friends and basically want to be certain that prospective first friend will maybe agree with them about everything all the time.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1114718

Quote from: Fortunato;1114657That was the FORCED BY LAW separation of people in accordance with race.

Who needs laws when culture does that for you?

False equivalency.

(Force of culture) != (Force of law)

Quote from: Fortunato;1114742False equivalency.

(Force of culture) != (Force of law)

Just because the people who are beating your ass down and making you bleed on the ground are not wearing badge doesn't mean you are not getting a beating.  Remember in some cities when Antifa get violent the police will just let them do it until some one stands up against Antifa.  Then that some one gets arrested by the police.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1114743Just because the people who are beating your ass down and making you bleed on the ground are not wearing badge doesn't mean you are not getting a beating.

The worst you get from any cultural force is labeled an asshole.  You are talking about a mob.  That's not a force of culture, it's a mob.

Hence my statement stands.  

(Force of culture) != (Force of law)

Quote from: Fortunato;1114746(Force of culture) != (Force of law)

SJWs have accomplished a whole fuck ton of stuff, without many laws to support them. Heck without even much backing to their threats on a monetary level. They accomplished it on a purely memetic cultural level.
Law and Culture is like fire and water. While fire looks superficially more impressive and destructive, water is erosive and can carve mountains.
Id say the fact that people don't realize this makes SJWs even more powerful.

I, however, support the right of anybody to discriminate to maintain whatever ingroup they prefer.

Quote from: Fortunato;1114746The worst you get from any cultural force is labeled an asshole.  You are talking about a mob.  That's not a force of culture, it's a mob.

Hence my statement stands.  

(Force of culture) != (Force of law)

What do you think influence that mob into violence in the first place?  Couldn't it because they want to change the current culture for their culture aka cultural revolution.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1114750What do you think influence that mob into violence in the first place?  Couldn't it because they want to change the current culture for their culture aka cultural revolution.

To be totally clear, and I don't care if you agree, let me show you (right here and now) the worst thing that will happen to you due to cultural force.

...
...
*clears throat*
...
I don't like what you have said, you are an asshole.  Buh-bye.

/ignore Snowman0147

All right continue on ignoring the fact that once you control the control the culture you can start manipulating people to do what you want them to do.  I mean it isn't like the communists hadn't tried that...  Oh wait they did and they succeeded in taking over countries where they then slaughtered millions of people.

Blessed silence

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3997[/ATTACH]

For some one who says he is ignoring me you sure like to reply to my statements.

Quote from: Fortunato;1114751To be totally clear, and I don't care if you agree, let me show you (right here and now) the worst thing that will happen to you due to cultural force.

I mean will you be ignoring me as well? I mean it's your right, I just don't think you were being fair to snowman.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114758I mean will you be ignoring me as well? I mean it's your right, I just don't think you were being fair to snowman.

He and I reached a point in which it was clear, no one was moving on their view.  He didn't take the hint, I wasn't inclined to continue wasting time.  Plus it was, imo, a funny demonstration.

Quote from: Fortunato;1114761He and I reached a point in which it was clear, no one was moving on their view.  He didn't take the hint, I wasn't inclined to continue wasting time.  Plus it was, imo, a funny demonstration.

He replied to you exactly three times--the first time perhaps sarcastically, but still making a point, the other two briefly elaborating with actual arguments and even bring up real life examples of what he meant--and at none of your replies back did you actually address his points. You simply dismissed them twice and then blocked him. There was no point "reached". You simply didn't want your bullshit unchallenged, so you retreated to your echo chamber instead.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1114763He replied to you exactly three times--the first time perhaps sarcastically, but still making a point, the other two briefly elaborating with actual arguments and even bring up real life examples of what he meant--and at none of your replies back did you actually address his points. You simply dismissed them twice and then blocked him. There was no point "reached". You simply didn't want your bullshit unchallenged, so you retreated to your echo chamber instead.

That's his right; if he want's to ignore, he can. If you/me/anyone/everyone wants to think he's an asshole for doing so, that's your/my/their right.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1114768That's his right; if he want's to ignore, he can. If you/me/anyone/everyone wants to think he's an asshole for doing so, that's your/my/their right.

Absolutely

Quote from: VisionStorm;1114763He replied to you exactly three times--the first time perhaps sarcastically, but still making a point, the other two briefly elaborating with actual arguments and even bring up real life examples of what he meant--and at none of your replies back did you actually address his points. You simply dismissed them twice and then blocked him. There was no point "reached". You simply didn't want your bullshit unchallenged, so you retreated to your echo chamber instead.

Lighten up tough guy!  He's already off the ignore list.

Greetings!

I have never put anyone here on my Ignore List. I have never bothered even using the function, here or anywhere, honestly.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Politics is downstream from culture.

Control the culture and you'll soon control the laws.

And SJWs are becoming the controllers of culture so it's not rocket science what's next.

Quote from: Omega;1114375All SJWs are white so if you exclude them from your game session then you are only doing what they told you to do. :rolleyes:

That's hysterical!

Quote from: RPGPundit;1113873There's a certain group of people in the RPG hobby who want to segregate gamers according to their sexuality, race or gender.
They're called SJWs.

[video=youtube_share;IErUFVyD008]https://youtu.be/IErUFVyD008[/youtube]

You know, back on RPGNet I used to often read that RPG Pundit was extreme right-wing. I eventually got fed up with the smothering political-correctness on those forums, particularly from the Mods, that I jumped ship to other more relaxed rpg forums. Eventually I started checking this one out, and thought fuck it, if it's not my thing I'll just walk. Glad I didn't.

Watching this last video regarding the current rise in SJW segratation in the hobby, I'm in agreeance with the points raised here (as I have been on many other videos by RPGPundit).

I usually don't lend my voice to these polarised conversations, but I have to agree that the current fascist way of thought does seem to be prevalent in the contemporary Social Justice culture - it's a pity that they have taken the title 'social justice', as they seem to be just about as intolerant as the the more extreme far-right viewpoints.

I'm more of a moderate myself, seeing strengths in both camps, but I must say I find myself more and more agreeing with many of Pundit's views, which are often based around inclusion and general fairness.
Good video, thanks for posting

Quote from: Mankcam;1114993You know, back on RPGNet I used to often read that RPG Pundit was extreme right-wing. I eventually got fed up with the smothering political-correctness on those forums, particularly from the Mods, that I jumped ship to other more relaxed rpg forums. Eventually I started checking this one out, and thought fuck it, if it's not my thing I'll just walk. Glad I didn't.

Watching this last video regarding the current rise in SJW segratation in the hobby, I'm in agreeance with the points raised here (as I have been on many other videos by RPGPundit).

I usually don't lend my voice to these polarised conversations, but I have to agree that the current fascist way of thought does seem to be prevalent in the contemporary Social Justice culture - it's a pity that they have taken the title 'social justice', as they seem to be just about as intolerant as the the more extreme far-right viewpoints.

I'm more of a moderate myself, seeing strengths in both camps, but I must say I find myself more and more agreeing with many of Pundit's views, which are often based around inclusion and general fairness.
Good video, thanks for posting

Thanks!

Here is a fine example of segregation / gatekeeping from Roll20.  https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/7913303/lfp-new-ish-dm-looking-for-lgbtq-plus-players-for-lmop-mon-tues-or-weds-at-7pm-cst  from anx LFG Thread titled [LFP] New-ish DM looking for LGBTQ+ players for LMOP! [LFP] New-ish DM looking for LGBTQ+ players for LMOP![/B] Note all the posters that are demanding the segregation lack plus or pro tags  which means they pay nothing for this service. Also Roll20 Code of Conduct specifically states

"All Looking for Group postings and listings should be in the spirit of inclusion as opposed to exclusion. This will allow you to best attract the gaming group you wish to play with instead of attempting to repel those you don't."

Here are some highlights

QuoteThere is something very important here which you (and everyone else above who has objected) clearly don't understand, so let me spell it out for you:

In the world we live in today there are some groups which are marginalised (due to their ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender/gender identity, religion, disability, etc.).
This is true both irl and in gaming communities.
People in such marginalised communities often seek each other out to form groups/communities of our own (yes, indeed excluding those who do not have those same experiences of marginalisation) in order to be/feel safer, in order to be with others who understand the same experiences... for any number of reasons.
Doing that (seeking each other out, to the exclusion of those who have the privilege not to be marginalised for who they are) is not a nice, fun, cool thing we do at you, or to exclude you (we absolutely seek each other out in the spirit of inclusion to find and include each other). It would be great if we lived in a world where this was not necessary. But we do not.
Men, white people, cishets, pretty much any group who is privileged is not in that same position. Arguing that they are is obnoxious, offensive, and shows that you have absolutely no understanding of the way the world works.
Coming here and making all of these super queerphobic and transphobic arguments on the Trans Day of Remembrance (when we remember those who have died/been killed due to transphobia) no less... is utterly despicable. I don't know how you manage to live with yourselves.
No go away.

QuoteThere is no such thing as heterophobia!!

Just like it's not possible to be racist towards white people or sexist towards men.

Now, which part of "go away" did you not understand?!

RPGPundit, what's your thoughts on Freedom of Association vs. the SJW desire for segregation?

"Freedom of association encompasses both an individual's right to join or leave groups voluntarily, the right of the group to take collective action to pursue the interests of its members, and the right of an association to accept or decline membership based on certain criteria."

If I play Devil's Advocate for a moment, aren't the SJWs and the Roll20 morons just using Freedom of Association to segregate themselves? And if so, what exactly is wrong with that? Other than the normal issues with a closed group developing groupthink.

The USA has a weird relationship with Freedom of Association. It doesn't exist on school campuses anymore, but alleged exists for everyone else to choose to self-segregate with like minded people.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1115398RPGPundit, what's your thoughts on Freedom of Association vs. the SJW desire for segregation?

"Freedom of association encompasses both an individual's right to join or leave groups voluntarily, the right of the group to take collective action to pursue the interests of its members, and the right of an association to accept or decline membership based on certain criteria."

If I play Devil's Advocate for a moment, aren't the SJWs and the Roll20 morons just using Freedom of Association to segregate themselves? And if so, what exactly is wrong with that? Other than the normal issues with a closed group developing groupthink.

The USA has a weird relationship with Freedom of Association. It doesn't exist on school campuses anymore, but alleged exists for everyone else to choose to self-segregate with like minded people.

The thing is the SJWs and Roll20 morons do not believe in Freedom of Association but instead they use it as an excuse for their own use of segregation while also saying that any group that does not specifically label themselves in the correct manner is homophobic, transphobic and racist to justify their own hatred and make themselves feel special.

The whole notion that these groups are based on Freedom of Association is bollocks since a group excepting only straight white males would never be tolerated.  Roll20  again is a good example of this. In a response to poster complaining that a group was not excepting women players Nolan T Jones replied with this:-

QuoteReal talk: I'm the Managing Partner of Roll20, and if you report these tools, we'd be happy to nuke them off the site. Sorry someone was an asshole. But we're improving the hobby and outnumbering these tools more and more every day.

Quote from: Gagarth;1115380Here is a fine example of segregation / gatekeeping from Roll20.  https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/7913303/lfp-new-ish-dm-looking-for-lgbtq-plus-players-for-lmop-mon-tues-or-weds-at-7pm-cst  from anx LFG Thread titled [LFP] New-ish DM looking for LGBTQ+ players for LMOP! [LFP] New-ish DM looking for LGBTQ+ players for LMOP![/B] Note all the posters that are demanding the segregation lack plus or pro tags  which means they pay nothing for this service. Also Roll20 Code of Conduct specifically states

"All Looking for Group postings and listings should be in the spirit of inclusion as opposed to exclusion. This will allow you to best attract the gaming group you wish to play with instead of attempting to repel those you don't."

Here are some highlights

Love it. "We're inclusive...of people just like us".

Quote from: Gagarth;1115410The thing is the SJWs and Roll20 morons do not believe in Freedom of Association but instead they use it as an excuse for their own use of segregation while also saying that any group that does not specifically label themselves in the correct manner is homophobic, transphobic and racist to justify their own hatred and make themselves feel special.

The truly reprehensible aspect is if it's something they support it's not racist. So if they dislike CIS straight whites it's not racism. Whether if one were to say the same of gays or trans gamers. Suddenly it is "racism", to be inclusive one is exclusive then to me they are being racist. "we are not racist because we believe in the bull-shit non-existent narrative where their was an equally non-existent campaign in rpgs to keep up 1000% of trans, gay people ou of the hobby. We only want to play with those two groups and CIS straight whites are not welcome. BTW are are not at all racist."

Quote from: Gagarth;1115410The whole notion that these groups are based on Freedom of Association is bollocks since a group excepting only straight white males would never be tolerated.  Roll20  again is a good example of this. In a response to poster complaining that a group was not excepting women players Nolan T Jones replied with this:-

Agreed and seconded and pretty much guaranteed almost 99.9% that I will never use Roll20.

Quote from: Joey2k;1115412Love it. "We're inclusive...of people just like us".

Don't you know if your straight white CIS male then no one cannot ever be racist against you.

How do these segregationists actually live? Do they have jobs, do they use restaurants or attend  public events? If they are so traumatised by a person with white skin or someone that seems to heterosexual or cis do they ever leave their homes?   Maybe they are the real basement dwellers.  Also what is the next step  segregated work spaces, public venues and public transport? Maybe that will make them happy.

Quote from: Gagarth;1115425How do these segregationists actually live? Do they have jobs, do they use restaurants or attend  public events? If they are so traumatised by a person with white skin or someone that seems to heterosexual or cis do they ever leave their homes?   Maybe they are the real basement dwellers.  Also what is the next step  segregated work spaces, public venues and public transport? Maybe that will make them happy.

That's the thing; this entire deal about "marginalized" people being so traumatized by "life" that they can't bear the thought of a disgusting cishet white male is all built upon a series of unsupported assumptions stemming from "activist" groups and "academia" as prescriptive garbage that isn't actually expressed by regular members of these "marginalized" communities, yet we're expected to accept it anyways without question because [insert second hand anecdotes full of loaded assumptions] and "how dare you invalidate the (supposed) lived experiences of marginalized groups (that aren't actually saying any of this crap being pushed by ideologues)?"

It's all prescriptive nonsense that persists largely unchallenged because the average person has the logical thought process of a lemming and all the conviction of a peon, so they're not gonna question what their moral arbiters have laid out in front of them, cuz "why do you want to further ostracize 'marginalized' peoples (by not letting us promote prescriptive segregation)?"

Quote from: Gagarth;1115425How do these segregationists actually live? Do they have jobs, do they use restaurants or attend  public events? If they are so traumatised by a person with white skin or someone that seems to heterosexual or cis do they ever leave their homes?   Maybe they are the real basement dwellers.  Also what is the next step  segregated work spaces, public venues and public transport? Maybe that will make them happy.

Why do they make bubbles? They terraform a social environment to be unthreatened.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1115428"how dare you invalidate the (supposed) lived experiences of marginalized groups (that aren't actually saying any of this crap being pushed by ideologues)?"

Heh. When that poll came out finding that 98% of latinos think the term "latinx" is bullshit, I predicted that this would have zero impact on the use of that term in woke academic circles. So far I've been proven correct.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1115437Heh. When that poll came out finding that 98% of latinos think the term "latinx" is bullshit, I predicted that this would have zero impact on the use of that term in woke academic circles. So far I've been proven correct.

I've been saying this stuff since before it was cool and all I ever got was an appeal to non-existent Latinos that supposedly exist somewhere and apparently support this stuff. And that me being Latino and living in an actual Spanish speaking island where 99.9% of the population outside of gender studies departments DO NOT use that term (which is unpronounceable) does not invalidate the tiny percentage of largely US born or raised Tumblrite Latinos that apparently do. Cuz we ALL have to remember the small minorities within minorities of brainwashed ideologues who want to push nonsense on the rest of the population and take their fee-fees into consideration.

"Latinx" is an anglicized imperialistic* abomination of the Spanish language that does not follow Spanish language structure or can even be pronounced and exists solely as decoration to appeal to the cultural sensitivities of ideologues that clearly see Spanish speaking people as ignorant savages that need to be told how to speak their language properly, in the gender-ideologue approved way. It's just proof that these people are entitled petty tyrants and their "concern" for the marginalized communities is only skin deep and a tool for their own advancement.

*which is what SJWs are: a bunch of cultural imperialists taking over shit so they can tell their presumed subjects what's what, while pretending to be "decolonizing" stuff or some other nonsense when colonizing is precisely how they operate.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1115438*which is what SJWs are: a bunch of cultural imperialists taking over shit so they can tell their presumed subjects what's what, while pretending to be "decolonizing" stuff or some other nonsense when colonizing is precisely how they operate.

That's completely the truth, many just don't realise it. I know many flavors of SJW: Moron, Opportunist, Rabid Person, Social Reconstructivist, Commie, exetera.
While there are a few bad actors who know that what their doing is not what they're saying but want to create their "Perfect" world, id say most SJWs are just kindhearted morons stuck in logical loops.
They will decry colonialism, but won't skip a beat talking about how modern PC culture is the best and should be applied to everything because it's inclusive.
Again Id say a solid 70% don't do this out of malice but more like robots that are stuck in an infinite while loop.

Id say only 30% of SJWs make up the rabid deconstructivists. The morons completely help out the deconstructivists but it's important to ascertain motives.

I always imagined that a Latinx was someone who used to be Latino.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1115437When that poll came out finding that 98% of latinos think the term "latinx" is bullshit, I predicted that this would have zero impact on the use of that term in woke academic circles.

That's because Latinos don't know what's best for them! And how could they? They're not white.

Fortunately, we have woke white people who DO know what's best for the Latinx community. And "woke" means always right.

BTW, just shared "Latinx" with my Peruvian born All-American acquaintance/client and he nearly choked. His facial expression was priceless and he thought I was messing with him (again) until he googled it.

Him: You white people are fucking up Spanish.
Me: Apparently its from Latinx university professors.
Him: No, that's too stupid. Why is there an X? That's no Spanish.
Me: It's to show Latinx are inclusive of transgenders.
Him: I hate everything you show me on the internet. You are worse than Facebook.
Me: Maybe your kids can take Latinx studies in college?
Him: I'm only paying for business or computer degrees, maybe law school.
Me: That sounds like the oppression of the patriarchy.
Him: Yes, I'm their father.

"Worse than Facebook." Man, Spin, you should wear that proudly.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1115442Again Id say a solid 70% don't do this out of malice but more like robots that are stuck in an infinite while loop.

This includes not just actual SJWs but normal people who fall for their crap as well. Most people just take everything at face value and don't dig deeper or consider that sometimes (often?) people are full of shit.

They get told that this is about equality or inclusivity and what not, then they don't stop to consider whether the actual methods they are using or proposing actually advance those aims or contradict them. "Don't you know that LGBT-only game group are actually about inclusivity because [insert revisionist view of history and lots of loaded buzzwords, like 'privilege']?"

Quote from: Shasarak;1115443I always imagined that a Latinx was someone who used to be Latino.

Which ironically includes just about every Latino who uses the term LatinX unironically.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1115444Me: Maybe your kids can take Latinx studies in college?
Him: I'm only paying for business or computer degrees, maybe law school.
Me: That sounds like the oppression of the patriarchy.
Him: Yes, I'm their father.

The Patriarchy: Saving future generations once again!

Quote from: Gagarth;1115410The whole notion that these groups are based on Freedom of Association is bollocks since a group excepting only straight white males would never be tolerated.

Again, I'll play Devil's Advocate. Does the human garbage of Roll20 or other SJW douche dribble have to tolerate others to invoke their own right of Freedom of Association?

AKA, do people have to respect the rights of others to segregate in order to self-segregate?

And if yes, how should that be enforced? Legally?

And if not, what does it mean for society if we allow hypocrites to have rights, yet deny them from others?

Quote from: Gagarth;1115425How do these segregationists actually live? Do they have jobs, do they use restaurants or attend  public events? If they are so traumatised by a person with white skin or someone that seems to heterosexual or cis do they ever leave their homes?   Maybe they are the real basement dwellers.  Also what is the next step  segregated work spaces, public venues and public transport? Maybe that will make them happy.

Most people self-segregate in their lives to varying degrees because humans prefer humans like themselves. Whether that be division by race, religion, socio-economic, ideology or other characteristic. Of course, how much a person can self-segregate depends on their circumstances and options. If you live in a homogeneous community, its much easier to stick to your own, work and shop among your own and have very little to do with The Others. This becomes harder the more "diversity" exists in your community.

I suspect the most upset segregationists live in the most "diverse" communities, and thus seek segregation online where they can form bubbles.

Greetings!

I love the Spanish language. "Latinx" is an abomination. Every Latino should find it very offensive, condescending--even degrading. I think linguistically it's a form of horrible insult. Latino's everywhere should reject this bullshit terminology with severe passion.

I like traditional, masculine Hispanic culture. I love wonderful, feminine Latina women. Have some fucking respect for the traditional Hispanic cultures and language!

Imagine that. How's that for "Diversity"?

If all of these counter-cultural freaks and misfits don't like it, then too fucking bad. They can shut the fuck up and choke on it.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I thought Latinx ("la-tinks") was a new CalArts Thundercat or something when I first heard it. :D I still think someone should draw an anthro-pixie-cat marking territory (with its gender fluid?), calling it La-Tinx. :p

Yeah, my Latin-side of the family was not amused about this linguistic cultural imperialism. :mad: I can't wait to show them a La-Tinx as a DeviantArt characterization! :D

Quote from: Gagarth;1115425How do these segregationists actually live? Do they have jobs, do they use restaurants or attend  public events? If they are so traumatised by a person with white skin or someone that seems to heterosexual or cis do they ever leave their homes?   Maybe they are the real basement dwellers.  Also what is the next step  segregated work spaces, public venues and public transport? Maybe that will make them happy.

A lot like you or I, although quite a few of the popular ones on the right-wing end of the political spectrum like Tucker Carlson live in penthouses and get mad money by appealing to nativist sentiment (https://www.vox.com/2018/3/21/17146866/tucker-carlson-demographics-immigration-fox-news) while pretending to be on the working man's side. (https://theintercept.com/2019/03/12/tucker-carlson-tapes-rupert-murdoch/) People on the far left end of the political spectrum generally aren't in Fortune 500 companies or sitting in Congress, so they're at the lower end of the economic bracket.

The 'basement dwellers' aren't really exerting mass control over our military-industrial complex or financial systems, so they're not really as much of an existential threat as their ideological opposites.

Quote from: Libertad;1115459A lot like you or I, although quite a few of the popular ones on the right-wing end of the political spectrum like Tucker Carlson live in penthouses and get mad money by appealing to nativist sentiment (https://www.vox.com/2018/3/21/17146866/tucker-carlson-demographics-immigration-fox-news) while pretending to be on the working man's side. (https://theintercept.com/2019/03/12/tucker-carlson-tapes-rupert-murdoch/) People on the far left end of the political spectrum generally aren't in Fortune 500 companies or sitting in Congress, so they're at the lower end of the economic bracket.

The 'basement dwellers' aren't really exerting mass control over our military-industrial complex or financial systems, so they're not really as much of an existential threat as their ideological opposites.

Sour grapes make the best whine.

Quote from: Libertad;1115459People on the far left end of the political spectrum generally aren't in Fortune 500 companies or sitting in Congress, so they're at the lower end of the economic bracket.

The far left dominates Entertainment and Silicon Valley, and neither group is lacking mansions. Plenty of Fortune 500 companies between LA, SF and NY - all bastions of far left ideology and SJW sickness.

As the far left dominates both culture and education, they most certainly pose a significant threat to America that must be purged if the nation has a future.

Quote from: Libertad;1115459The 'basement dwellers' aren't really exerting mass control over our military-industrial complex or financial systems, so they're not really as much of an existential threat as their ideological opposites.

Most of them seem to make a comfortable leaving whining about heterosexual and/or white people so give me a fucking break.  Also they have mass control of media, education, tech, have began control of the financial system starting with  Mastercard and Paypal and are working on mass control of politics by cancelling any politician that does not fall into line and lets not forget this guy and the fact he is Jewish has fuck all to do with it.
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Also your reply has fuck all to do with what I was talking about now get back to your fucking basement unless it is time for you to harass some old people on a crosswalk.

Quote from: Libertad;1115459A lot like you or I, although quite a few of the popular ones on the right-wing end of the political spectrum like Tucker Carlson live in penthouses and get mad money by appealing to nativist sentiment (https://www.vox.com/2018/3/21/17146866/tucker-carlson-demographics-immigration-fox-news) while pretending to be on the working man's side. (https://theintercept.com/2019/03/12/tucker-carlson-tapes-rupert-murdoch/)

Yeah, WHATABOUT them right-wingers, and WHATABOUT the single guy from the single major mainstream "right-wing" network bringing up the issues amirite? I don't know why you're bringing up "pretending to be on the working man's side" while discussing WHATABOUTISMS, though, considering that's all that the Intersectional so-call "Left" does. You should feel right at home with him if that's all he does.

Quote from: Libertad;1115459People on the far left end of the political spectrum generally aren't in Fortune 500 companies or sitting in Congress, so they're at the lower end of the economic bracket.

Except for all the people on the so-call "Far Left" that aren't on the lower end of the economic bracket. But then we'd had to define WTF you even mean with these nebulous Left/Right terms and the equally nebulous "Far" qualifier and what objective qualities place one on anyone of those categories before we can properly gauge which people are in what economic bracket. But I'm sure all "right-wing" alt-Reich Neo-Nazis (which are ALL them 'right-wingers', amirite?) are wealthy Fortune 500 congressmen, and all "left-wing" beatific saints are poor working class schmucks living the struggle.

Quote from: Libertad;1115459The 'basement dwellers' aren't really exerting mass control over our military-industrial complex or financial systems, so they're not really as much of an existential threat as their ideological opposites.

I agree. EVERYONE in the so-called "right" is in direct control of the military-industrial complex and NO ONE from the Democratic party has ever pushed for the military-industrial complex's interests and NO mainstream "Left" media outlets has ever cried their eyes out in rage whenever Trump tried to pull out of a conflict (which isn't often but did happen in Syria) or wet their pants in ecstasy at the thought of one more military intervention. It's ALL 100% them "reich-wingers", amirite?

Quote from: Dimitrios;1115437Heh. When that poll came out finding that 98% of latinos think the term "latinx" is bullshit, I predicted that this would have zero impact on the use of that term in woke academic circles. So far I've been proven correct.

While correct, this is entirely off topic; don't post off topic again.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1115438I've been saying this stuff since before it was cool and all I ever got was an appeal to non-existent Latinos that supposedly exist somewhere and apparently support this stuff. And that me being Latino and living in an actual Spanish speaking island where 99.9% of the population outside of gender studies departments DO NOT use that term (which is unpronounceable) does not invalidate the tiny percentage of largely US born or raised Tumblrite Latinos that apparently do. Cuz we ALL have to remember the small minorities within minorities of brainwashed ideologues who want to push nonsense on the rest of the population and take their fee-fees into consideration.

"Latinx" is an anglicized imperialistic* abomination of the Spanish language that does not follow Spanish language structure or can even be pronounced and exists solely as decoration to appeal to the cultural sensitivities of ideologues that clearly see Spanish speaking people as ignorant savages that need to be told how to speak their language properly, in the gender-ideologue approved way. It's just proof that these people are entitled petty tyrants and their "concern" for the marginalized communities is only skin deep and a tool for their own advancement.

*which is what SJWs are: a bunch of cultural imperialists taking over shit so they can tell their presumed subjects what's what, while pretending to be "decolonizing" stuff or some other nonsense when colonizing is precisely how they operate.

Again, not on topic. Don't keep posting about this or face consequences.

Same goes for ANYONE posting about Latinx or any other subject that isn't about gaming. People doing it from here on in will be banned from the thread. Repeat offenders will be banned from the forum.

Back on topic.

Has anyone actually had to face off against this sort of segregation outside of gaming conventions?

Quote from: Omega;1115500Back on topic.

Has anyone actually had to face off against this sort of segregation outside of gaming conventions?

Outside of a convention, I'm not sure how easy it would be to even know that segregation was going on. For private gaming groups, I assume that if some one wants an "X only" group they just won't invite anyone who isn't X.

Though I suppose there are the folks who don't actually play, but go onto social media to crow about how they won't allow cis/het/white/males into their (nonexistant) games.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1115503Outside of a convention, I'm not sure how easy it would be to even know that segregation was going on. For private gaming groups, I assume that if some one wants an "X only" group they just won't invite anyone who isn't X.

I've seen a couple of situations where a circle of gamers that mostly knew each other developed cliques.  Basically, once the circle of people gets large enough, the shared activity subdivides into smaller groups that are a better fit for each other--except that since no one is every quite completely "out", the divisions can fester.  Though in both of the situations I witnessed, it was more about personality fit than anything else.  One of them did divide a little on a roughly conservative/progressive line, but even then there was cross-over to some extent.  I think the excluded people were excluded because of personality, but an outsider could have observed the political division and guessed otherwise.

I mean, if you've got 20+ people gaming, and they have several different games going on, does it really matter that persons A and X never play in the same game?

Quote from: Omega;1115500Back on topic.

Has anyone actually had to face off against this sort of segregation outside of gaming conventions?

I think it's not normally possible to know why you are refused membership of a group. Anyway I prefer to make my own groups - and if I get kicked out I just make another one. :)

I guess I regulate group membership a bit for who's pleasant to play with; never for any SJW protected characteristic per se, but someone may be on the autism spectrum and this result in them being weird and unpleasant to be around & cause me to disinvite them. We did have one person turn up once who seemed to be a scary SJW type, she scolded us for starting late and was generally unpleasant, she didn't come back but I didn't disinvite her. The vast majority of players with SJW protected characteristics (gay, lesbian, trans, non-white etc) are just regular gamers who just want to play like everyone else. I particularly like lesbian D&Ders, they tend to combine the best of male and female players IME - good at roleplay, good with rules crunch. :D

I try to keep politics away from the gaming table but it can occasionally be a source of slight tension, in the UK it's mostly Remainer vs Brexiter. The usual issue in London is Remainers assume everyone else is a Remainer and that Brexiters are mysterious trolls living in caves out in the hills somewhere. So they may occasionally say stuff without thinking.

Obviously, an entirely private group operating in a private home can have any makeup they want. The point is only relevant to public or semi-private gaming.

That is what I meant. At game shops and other non-convention, but still public, venues?

Quote from: Omega;1115893That is what I meant. At game shops and other non-convention, but still public, venues?

Yes. (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39135-GEEK-Is-Now-Helping-With-A-Convention)

Quote from: Omega;1115893That is what I meant. At game shops and other non-convention, but still public, venues?

Yup.

One of the local game shops tried to start up a Ladies Game Night.  They had only their female employee working that night and advertised it like crazy.  It offered a place for women of all ages to come out and play CCGs, board games and RPGs.  They didn't say which ones though.  I'm guessing they didn't want to say something specific, like Magic or D&D, because they didn't know what would draw a crowd vs turn them away.  From what I heard it was popular enough to keep up with for almost 2 months and then just kinda died out.  No clue why.

Do you really have no clue? heh c'mon.

WHY would you have a Ladies Game Night for roleplaying/CCG's and assume it would be successful in any meaningful fashion? Even in clubs/bars, all "Ladies Night" means is their booze is cheaper and/or there is no cover. But men certainly are welcome.

Ladies Night in Gaming means something entirely differently that has nothing to do with selling product, or even being pro-gaming. It's just more politics.

Quote from: tenbones;1116201Do you really have no clue? heh c'mon.

No, no, no.  I completely get why in Current Year this was a thing that got done.

I'm a little more surprised at the outcome though.  I would have expected it to flop from the start or to have had enough local womxn to become a thing.  The fact that it lasted for about 7 weeks and then died was the odd part.

Quote from: rgalex;1116214No, no, no.  I completely get why in Current Year this was a thing that got done.

I'm a little more surprised at the outcome though.  I would have expected it to flop from the start or to have had enough local womxn to become a thing.  The fact that it lasted for about 7 weeks and then died was the odd part.

Yeah, two months is not that bad all things considered. My local gaming temple is *massive* and it's largely overrun with the Usual Suspects(tm) (which is why I rarely go there), and a lot of them are chromatic-haired theyples, but even with their substantial population there is no way that place could support Ladies Night alone. Given thought, yeah maybe two-months if they try hard. Sounds legit.

Quote from: rgalex;1116214No, no, no.  I completely get why in Current Year this was a thing that got done.

I'm a little more surprised at the outcome though.  I would have expected it to flop from the start or to have had enough local womxn to become a thing.  The fact that it lasted for about 7 weeks and then died was the odd part.

Thats because after a point you start to realize the group isn't as fun as you had thought and probably is even less "safe". You used to see this on Yahoo-Groups like clockwork. Someone would declare a new splinter group split off from some central interest. It would get some folk joining in. And then after a few weeks to a few months, putter out.

And hilariously. Part of the reason is lack of diversity. And I mean real diversity. Not this fake thing these cultists push. Sometimes this damages the core group as well. But usually the splinter group just merges back into the core.

So you have your model train group. Seems fine. Then someone declares they are making a group only for HO scale set between 1880 and 1890. And eventually it putters out unless you can draw in enough people to sustain a conversation.

Or think of these things as forum threads. A thread can last many pages, and months of discussion. Or fizzle in a page or three. But the forum itself keeps chugging as it encompasses this diverse pool of interests, experiences and insights.

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That doesn't sound very inclusive to cis-men... or trans-men, come to think of it.

Quote from: Snark Knight;1123827That doesn't sound very inclusive to cis-men... or trans-men, come to think of it.

Thats because it isnt. BGG has a women only sub forum. Board gaming is ever so inclusive dont ya know?

How about instead of worrying about who segregated who, lets all just agree that dumb cunts that use black and white labels for things other than acrylic paint should be quarantined and then nuked from orbit?

I'm not into hyperbolic violent fantasies - at least outside the gaming table. I'm just glad there exists a forum - the RPG site - where it's possible to debunk SJWs crap ideas and activism in gaming. Thank you, RpgPundit !

What bothers me is not only how hypocritical these bottom feeders are (we want to be inclusive! except for you, you dirty cismale ham sandwich person), it's like they're dragging the cultural zeitgeist backwards.

See, point of order: I live in the deep southeastern U.S. and we preserved some of the more... egregious examples of sixties-era segregation as historical lessons. And it's bizarre to watch people actually wanting to take us back to a point where you half expect them to demand separate water fountains.

Many colleges have racially segregated graduations, study halls and even dorm rooms. It's a short hop to racially segregated classes, campus zones and bathrooms. All to avoid white supremacy! LOL.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1124518See, point of order: I live in the deep southeastern U.S. and we preserved some of the more... egregious examples of sixties-era segregation as historical lessons. And it's bizarre to watch people actually wanting to take us back to a point where you half expect them to demand separate water fountains.

AFAICT the modern segregation system is based on white = bad, non-white = good, whereas the old segregation system was based on black = bad, non-black = good.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1124518What bothers me is not only how hypocritical these bottom feeders are (we want to be inclusive! except for you, you dirty cismale ham sandwich person), it's like they're dragging the cultural zeitgeist backwards.

See, point of order: I live in the deep southeastern U.S. and we preserved some of the more... egregious examples of sixties-era segregation as historical lessons. And it's bizarre to watch people actually wanting to take us back to a point where you half expect them to demand separate water fountains.

It's easy to "Punch up"... when you're hellbent on descending ever downward.