Quote from: SHARK on December 27, 2020, 01:21:44 AM
Greetings!

When I was looking over the legal thing, I think I recall Weiss and Hickman suing WOTC for 10 million dollars, plus all legal fees and expenses, and maybe more.

Seeing that WOTC settled without otherwise going to court--I imagine that Weiss and Hickman were paid very well, possibly a little less than what they demanded, but also potentially more. No matter what, though, the price tag that WOTC was forced to pay Weiss and Hickman was undoubtedly in the millions of dollars.

My guess is WOTC paid up 10-15 million dollars to Weiss and Hickman, and agreed that they wouldn't touch Dragonlance, and please, Weiss and Hickman, enjoy your money and please don't continue to fuck is in court, public opinion, and marketing circles.

WOTC really fucked this up royally, and any court case would likely go very poorly for them. Weiss and Hickman are very nice and professional people, they have been authors and designers in the fantasy and gaming industry for *decades*--going back to the early 1980's. They are the wrong people to be fucking with. They have written *dozens* of game modules and books--and sold *millions* of fantasy books, worldwide, again, for *decades*. Why the people at WOTC somehow couldn't think, "Hmmm...you know, we need to ensure we treat these folks here really, really well. Give them the royal treatment in everything!" is just mind boggling. When you consider Weiss and Hickman's reputations--pretty much anything they put their stamp on is a guaranteed profit maker, *instantly* by a huge margin, if only because of millions of nostalgic, legacy fans that buy virtually anything with their names on it, sight unseen. Majorly stupid move on the part of WOTC.

Just more evidence that SJW's fuck up everything they get involved with or touch. More fuckery and failures need to jam the industry though. Good, I say. Go broke, get fucked, over and over again, until someone with some damned sense comes to the realization that SJW's are a plague and will absolutely ruin any business you are involved with.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The problem is that SJWs are, fundamentally, narcissists. They are always the heroes of their own story.  So the moron editors (the new ones) couldn't even conceive that Weiss and Hickman were of any importance, because they're not me.  Even when the issues are nominally about others, with SJWs, it's always about them.  Other people only exist for the purpose of villains, or to virtue signal to or about.  It's an intellectual blind spot for them, and their greatest weakness.  This is why they make the same mistakes over and over again.  They literally are not capable of seeing their conduct from anyone else's perspective.

Quote from: Omega on December 26, 2020, 11:52:39 PM
Apparently WOTC does not have as much hold over Dragonlance as one would think otherwise they would have just muscled their way forward with the plans to make Dragonlance the setting for 5e, starting from the beginning, but changing the events. That did not happen after W&H got wind of it and the writer for it learned they were not on board for this.

  Legally, WotC has full and clear right to Dragonlance--it was done as work-for-hire on TSR's dime, so they've got total control. However, the politics and public relations are a different matter--attempts to move forward without W&H's blessing have proven to be cult favorites at best, generally rejected at worst.

Quote from: SHARK on December 27, 2020, 01:21:44 AM
Greetings!

When I was looking over the legal thing, I think I recall Weiss and Hickman suing WOTC for 10 million dollars, plus all legal fees and expenses, and maybe more.

Seeing that WOTC settled without otherwise going to court--I imagine that Weiss and Hickman were paid very well, possibly a little less than what they demanded, but also potentially more. No matter what, though, the price tag that WOTC was forced to pay Weiss and Hickman was undoubtedly in the millions of dollars.

My guess is WOTC paid up 10-15 million dollars to Weiss and Hickman, and agreed that they wouldn't touch Dragonlance, and please, Weiss and Hickman, enjoy your money and please don't continue to fuck is in court, public opinion, and marketing circles.

They were very likely paid far FAR less than you're predicting. The sum of the lawsuit was just an exaggerated number to get WOTCs attention. They implied as much all along. The settlement is very likely to just continue the project as intended before and a small sum for damages between the time they stopped and the re-start date.

Quote from: Mistwell on December 27, 2020, 11:15:37 AM

Quote from: SHARK on December 27, 2020, 01:21:44 AM
Greetings!

When I was looking over the legal thing, I think I recall Weiss and Hickman suing WOTC for 10 million dollars, plus all legal fees and expenses, and maybe more.

Seeing that WOTC settled without otherwise going to court--I imagine that Weiss and Hickman were paid very well, possibly a little less than what they demanded, but also potentially more. No matter what, though, the price tag that WOTC was forced to pay Weiss and Hickman was undoubtedly in the millions of dollars.

My guess is WOTC paid up 10-15 million dollars to Weiss and Hickman, and agreed that they wouldn't touch Dragonlance, and please, Weiss and Hickman, enjoy your money and please don't continue to fuck is in court, public opinion, and marketing circles.

They were very likely paid far FAR less than you're predicting. The sum of the lawsuit was just an exaggerated number to get WOTCs attention. They implied as much all along. The settlement is very likely to just continue the project as intended before and a small sum for damages between the time they stopped and the re-start date.

+1 for this... a settled amount and action plan would be one that satisfies the conditional probability of a win... under Bayes' Theorem, this likely would be between 1/8th and 1/3rd of the $10m... in this case, much would depend on the relative degrees of discovery, attitude about the repugnant action, etc. I'd betcha things didn't look good for WOTC, so the W&H maybe walked with $2.5m plus right of further suit.

Also, consider Tracy's posts on facebook, where he hints that work is actually moving forward.

We may yet see their new trilogy come out under WotC's brand after all.

A little off topic, but related as it shows that working for WotC is a two faced shit show.
https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sra9pq

There is also a recent Wired article that shakes its finger at WotC for not being woke enough.  I won't bother linking to that.

Quote from: zircher on January 03, 2021, 11:51:39 AM
A little off topic, but related as it shows that working for WotC is a two faced shit show.
https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sra9pq

There is also a recent Wired article that shakes its finger at WotC for not being woke enough.  I won't bother linking to that.

I remember that nonsense.

WOTC was gonna get burned no matter what they did with that guy...

Direct quite from your link:

Quote from: non-binary sperg on January 03, 2021, 11:51:39 AMI took the job for two reasons. The first was for the dream. To escape poverty doing what I love, writing and making games. The second was to make D&D welcoming to the millions who are scorned by it.

Millions who are scorned by it?

Yes, you heard it straight, or rather non-binarily from this guy: D&D Scorns Millions of people.

Millions. With Scorn.

There is simply nothing left to be said.

It is impossible to have a meaningful conversation about RPG's with someone so mentally damaged they actually believe that crap.

People like this are just one or two personnel changes away from being put in charge of D&D.

And it will happen. It is only a matter of when, not if.

I believe that we will see this shift within the next 4 years.

.

Ya know, I have the 5E core books. Read them. Thought about getting in on some games, but the whole thing doesn't inspire me enough to get any traction. When you get down to it, I really don't care what SJWs and their ilk do to the game. It's similar in nature to a pack of mental patients having their way with a bed-ridden patient... I really don't want to see that.

So, I've shifted focus on to other games that pique my interest a little more, namely WHFRP 4E and that strange little game Zweihander Grim & Perilous. I have both games coming in the mail this week and I'm sort of stoked about reading them... mainly Zweihander because it seems to have been made by sane people... or at least people who share the same mental neighborhood with me. We'll see.  Maybe it won't get fucked up by angry and self-loathing people who are, quite honestly, beneath me on the food chain.

I saw this and immediately thought of management at WotC.  :-)

Quote from: Semaj Khan on January 04, 2021, 02:23:47 AM... mainly Zweihander because it seems to have been made by sane people...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 04, 2021, 11:04:23 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on January 04, 2021, 02:23:47 AM... mainly Zweihander because it seems to have been made by sane people...

^ +1

Quote from: JeffB on January 04, 2021, 11:11:35 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 04, 2021, 11:04:23 AM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on January 04, 2021, 02:23:47 AM... mainly Zweihander because it seems to have been made by sane people...

^ +1

Quote from: Semaj Khan on January 04, 2021, 02:23:47 AM
... Zweihander because it seems to have been made by sane people... or at least people who share the same mental neighborhood with me. We'll see.  Maybe it won't get fucked up by angry and self-loathing people who are, quite honestly, beneath me on the food chain.

Wherever you bought Zweihander from, you should return it immediately.

Angry and self-loathing SJW is the perfect description of its creator.

Quote from: Jaeger on January 04, 2021, 04:47:10 PM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on January 04, 2021, 02:23:47 AM
... Zweihander because it seems to have been made by sane people... or at least people who share the same mental neighborhood with me. We'll see.  Maybe it won't get fucked up by angry and self-loathing people who are, quite honestly, beneath me on the food chain.

Wherever you bought Zweihander from, you should return it immediately.

Angry and self-loathing SJW is the perfect description of its creator.

Really? 

So it's a "woke" version of the old WarHammer rpg?

WTF?  WHY pick that game if you wanted something with a more SJW-vibe?


Was somebody already doing a F.A.T.A.L. update?