Quote from: Rincewind1;523523Gee, thanks. And here I was, going to give you 3 out of 5 (1 for my bias for the games you dislike, 2 for the "pure emotions").

I guess no stars for you as well, you big meanie.

I figured you for a Polish Aos, with less to say about gaming.

Quote from: One Horse Town;523524I figured you for a Polish Aos, with less to say about gaming.

Since the chance of us ending in bed are rather slim (no offence), I couldn't care less what you figure me out as. I came here to talk about games and crack jokes(at times at TBP's expense).

When I mentioned that the battlemat forced us away, it wasn't because we don't like minatures, quite the contrary. We bought her a miniature for just about every character she played. She even made a character to match a miniature I had. But hour-long combats and using miniatures for every combat lessened their use. Using miniatures for wandering encounters and simple combats was a chore and added nothing to the game for us.

With BECM and 2e we used 1" square printouts and the battlemat for the important combats, ones where tactics were used or needed. And we didn't care if those combats lasted an hour. But we never used them more than once a session.

I love playing Heroscape with a good buddy of mine who loves WOTC's Castle Ravenloft. I enjoy playing both. But there was a time where all three of us played the same game and had a blast.

Will she play Heroscape or Castle Ravenloft? No.

4e? No, she likes playing fighter types but would waste all of the rules needed to make the fighter a viable character with its marking and whatnot.

Can all three of us play 2e or even core 3e? Yes as long as I handle AoOs for her. I think that is the key to some hypothetical wishlist I would have for 5e. At least in my opinion.

Quote from: One Horse Town;523524I figured you for a Polish Aos, with less to say about gaming.

I want dibs on being Aos with a beard.

Quote from: One Horse Town;523521Um, lets see...

In my post, i said IMO (that is in my opinion for the hard of understanding) that various games are fucked.

Now in your reply, you said that i was objectively wrong on 2 counts.

I then said prove it.

Now you're wriggling like the worm you are.

We had Forge apologists years back that were better than you. Tony B. Shit, Levi made a better job of it.

Prove that i am objectively wrong.

I was trying to play your game. Spout opinions with no reasons for them, or any reason to say them aside from the narcissistic delight of seeing my opinion up on a message board.

The real truth? I fucking hate shit like, "Derp, derp, X game sucks!" I mean, so what? So there's a game out there you don't like? Big deal. Get over it. There's lots of games out there.

So your post annoyed me and I wanted to wind you up a little. I should have just rolled my eyes, considered my signature, and moved along, like I do most of the time, but I was feeling puckish. My bad, I guess.

Quote from: misterguignol;523527I want dibs on being Aos with a beard.

Careful, he'll hear you.

Quote from: two_fishes;523528So your post annoyed me and I wanted to wind you up a little. I should have just rolled my eyes, considered my signature, and moved along, like I do most of the time, but I was feeling puckish. My bad, I guess.

As i figured, you've got nothing.

Quote from: JasperAK;523526When I mentioned that the battlemat forced us away, it wasn't because we don't like minatures, quite the contrary. We bought her a miniature for just about every character she played. She even made a character to match a miniature I had. But hour-long combats and using miniatures for every combat lessened their use. Using miniatures for wandering encounters and simple combats was a chore and added nothing to the game for us.

With BECM and 2e we used 1" square printouts and the battlemat for the important combats, ones where tactics were used or needed. And we didn't care if those combats lasted an hour. But we never used them more than once a session.

I love playing Heroscape with a good buddy of mine who loves WOTC's Castle Ravenloft. I enjoy playing both. But there was a time where all three of us played the same game and had a blast.

Will she play Heroscape or Castle Ravenloft? No.

4e? No, she likes playing fighter types but would waste all of the rules needed to make the fighter a viable character with its marking and whatnot.

Can all three of us play 2e or even core 3e? Yes as long as I handle AoOs for her. I think that is the key to some hypothetical wishlist I would have for 5e. At least in my opinion.

I like using minis, or no minis. Whether I use them or not, I want the game to be about what's going on in our imaginations, not rules played on a grid like a mini-game that has nothing to do with actual tactics (I would link Black Vulmea's explanation of that if I could, but I'm on the cell now). So I share your feelings I think. The problem isn't the miniatures, it's the grid and the types of rules its use seems to imply in the mind of a WotC grunt.

Quote from: Benoist;523534I like using minis, or no minis. Whether I use them or not, I want the game to be about what's going on in our imaginations, not rules played on a grid like a mini-game that has nothing to do with actual tactics (I would link Black Vulmea's explanation of that if I could, but I'm on the cell now). So I share your feelings I think. The problem isn't the miniatures, it's the grid and the types of rules its use seems to imply in the mind of a WotC grunt.

It is the design process that led to 4e's Fighter's Marking and powers like "Come and get it" that I am worried about.

Ugh, Marking. Urgh.

Quote from: JasperAK;523535It is the design process that led to 4e's Fighter's Marking and powers like "Come and get it" that I am worried about.

Agreed. Overtly dissociated BS should be right out. Likewise, for me, attacks of opportunity, five-foot steps, feats within feats of options within options, +1 to this, +2 to that... holy crap man. Can I just fucking play the game here and not feel like I'm doing my taxes on a mat?

Quote from: JasperAK;523502And this is why I am looking forward to 5e. Maybe it can act as some sort of framework to bring different types of players to the same table again. The TSR editions showed that different types of gamers could play together because the rules did not really limit the type of enjoyment one could receive from the game. IMHO, 3e began the divide by forcing me to play one way, and 4e cemented that divide by forcing me to play in another. Once my wife and I were forced to play with a battlemat (a common element to both) we left.

We are just one spending data point. But I know about another dozen casual gamers that rejected 3e and 4e because of all the finicky bullshit. Based on past TSR spending habits that equals about three people they could have sold a set of core rules to if they were more rules-lite. Now those people would have never bought ALL of the splats that came out for those later editions, but they might have still been playing WOTC's game.

WOTC's real problem is that there does not seem to be a large enough community to support their business model. Again, their problem not mine.

As you know I'm in same demographic hence the reason I am becoming active as I possibly can because I feel 5e may be the last chance for a Dnd I would play.

Quote from: Benoist;523537attacks of opportunity,

Here, in principle, i don't agree.

We've always, at least, when someone runs away from an engagement in a  melee, allowed a 'free' attack. In its simplest form, that's an attack of opportunity.

Quote from: One Horse Town;523540Here, in principle, i don't agree.

We've always, at least, when someone runs away from an engagement in a  melee, allowed a 'free' attack. In its simplest form, that's an attack of opportunity.

Yes, and I actually agree with that. What I mean is the way it's formulated and predicated on the use of the grid in 4e and 3e. Call it a free attack, name conditions, like say, fleeing away from melee, that bestow free attacks without necessitating to get used to jargon or the use of a grid, and I'll be cool with it.

Quote from: Benoist;523537Agreed. Overtly dissociated BS should be right out. Likewise, for me, attacks of opportunity, five-foot steps, feats within feats of options within options, +1 to this, +2 to that... holy crap man. Can I just fucking play the game here and not feel like I'm doing my taxes on a mat?

I don't know if I agree about AoO's even though are way too fiddlely I get the concept, run away and leave an opening for getting attacked, 5 ft steps? Too rigid for my preference, feats I like, but they either have to be like Fantasy Craft (no +1 this or that shit but horizontal ability movement). Or fold them into class/race/background features.