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[D&D Next] Last playtest packet today

Started by Sacrosanct, September 19, 2013, 10:32:45 PM

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Imp

#240
September 26, 2013, 11:50:01 AM
Quote from: jibbajibba;694240Give a 2 handed weapon a wider critical range, additional damage, make the opponent make a save not to be knocked back etc etc but only do it if the thing actually hits something.....

Yeah the real question here is less "is this particular rule stupid" and more "how easy is it to houserule" because really there's a ton of alternate bonuses you can choose from for a two-handed weapon style.

Old One Eye

#241
September 26, 2013, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: jibbajibba;694163No damge on a miss is a shit rule end of.

You can blah blah it as much as you like its still a shit rule :)

Imagine the following situations ....

Kredfar the thief had been cornered. He took a load of damage but slipped on his ring of invisibility and fled. At the gates to the castle stand 2 bugbears. halberds in hand.
Kredfar tires to sneak past but fails a move silently, he is still invisible. the Bugbears who are alert cry "someone is there" and swing their halberds.
Kredfar has some defence feat he uses gviing him +4 ac, +4 from the invisibility so an AC of -2 (he is a dexy little fucker). the Bugbears need a 20 to hit. One rolls a 5 one a 4 .... but doesn't matter Kredfar still takes 2 damage from each and goes unconscious and turns visible as he has been engaged in combat.

Also got to pity 1st level wizards

Wizzy gets cornered by a barbarian with sword. Wizzy casts shield. The barbarian swings the sword 2 handed, (doesn't need to be a two handed weapon just a weapon that can be weilded 2 handed) misses and Wizzy goes down taking 1 point of damage.

Not seeing the problem.  If I allow the bugbear to make an attack roll, they have a pretty darn good idea where the handling is at.  If all the bugbear know is that he is somewhere in the general vicinity, no attack roll.

And wizards should totally be worried when cornered by a barbarian.

jibbajibba

#242
September 26, 2013, 08:48:11 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking;694253If you are attacked while invisible, you don't become visible.  It's only if you attack back.  So this wouldn't involve ignoring any rules.

No if you are hit when invisible through melee combat you become visible as you are deemed to be engaged in combat.
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jibbajibba

#243
September 26, 2013, 08:56:57 PM
Quote from: Imp;694286Yeah the real question here is less "is this particular rule stupid" and more "how easy is it to houserule" because really there's a ton of alternate bonuses you can choose from for a two-handed weapon style.

Agreed.

I like a lot of what I have seen in Next but I will always be against disassociative rules whether they come from 4e, Next, AD&D or where ever.

I mean people are actually seriously trying to say that if A guy with the right skill swings a weapon with two hands they are bound to connect and do some damage even if they messed up. They aren't saying if you hit a touch attach so that its the armour that absorbed the blow, or if the blow is parried or anything they are saying they would be unable to imagine a situation where that swing would simply miss.
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crkrueger

#244
September 26, 2013, 09:02:39 PM
Bleah, this "hit on a miss" thing is real?  Of all the 4tarded rules they could have kept, they chose one of the stupidest ones.
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Old One Eye

#245
September 26, 2013, 09:04:25 PM
Quote from: jibbajibba;694484No if you are hit when invisible through melee combat you become visible as you are deemed to be engaged in combat.

I genuinely like you jibbajibba, and I am not trying to be tart.  But have you actually played D&D or do you just discuss it on message boards?  Invisibility has always ended when you attack, not when someone attacks you.

languagegeek

#246
September 27, 2013, 12:36:43 AM
I really don't like the damage on a miss, and would not allow it at my table. If a big, heavy weapon does auto damage, why not a smaller, speedier weapon that can get more blows in? A miss is a miss is a miss.

JonWake

#247
September 27, 2013, 12:39:52 AM
Because there are no nonsensical rules in D&D.  Hey, why can't immortal perfectionist advance past 9th level again?

Old One Eye

#248
September 27, 2013, 12:58:20 AM
Quote from: languagegeek;694529I really don't like the damage on a miss, and would not allow it at my table. If a big, heavy weapon does auto damage, why not a smaller, speedier weapon that can get more blows in? A miss is a miss is a miss.

I do not think it is the best of rules, just find it bizarre that one rule is being singled out so much.  The wanderer always remember an area's layout.  The noted performer always finds an audience.  The researcher always knows where to find lore.  Etc, etc.

jibbajibba

#249
September 27, 2013, 06:53:51 AM
Quote from: Old One Eye;694490I genuinely like you jibbajibba, and I am not trying to be tart.  But have you actually played D&D or do you just discuss it on message boards?  Invisibility has always ended when you attack, not when someone attacks you.

Um D&D is that the one with the space ships and the Klingons?

No me bad we changed the invisibility 20 years ago after a very long debate following a long combat where an invisible guy was defending a party wizard by parrying all the opponent's blows. The rules said they wouldn't turn visible as they were not attacking so we changed it to engaged in melee combat.
Sorry.
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Exploderwizard

#250
September 27, 2013, 07:17:08 AM
Quote from: jibbajibba;694574Um D&D is that the one with the space ships and the Klingons?

No me bad we changed the invisibility 20 years ago after a very long debate following a long combat where an invisible guy was defending a party wizard by parrying all the opponent's blows. The rules said they wouldn't turn visible as they were not attacking so we changed it to engaged in melee combat.
Sorry.

If you are parrying, that is an action that you do in place of your attack and would count as such. An invisible guy just running around, not using an attack option or casting spells would remain invisible.

The guy in your group chose to engage in melee by parrying. That is different than just being in melee range when combat is taking place.
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Old One Eye

#251
September 27, 2013, 07:58:33 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;694580If you are parrying, that is an action that you do in place of your attack and would count as such. An invisible guy just running around, not using an attack option or casting spells would remain invisible.

The guy in your group chose to engage in melee by parrying. That is different than just being in melee range when combat is taking place.

To be fair, D&D has never done a good job of modeling the situation.  I could see a DM going either way with it.
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