Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;684320I did notice something else - the damage should be d8 for longsword not d6/d8, and d4 not d3/d4 for the daggers.

(The Small and Medium-size columns in 3E weapons charts are for the size of the user so whether its a halfling longsword vs. a human longsword, its not like the "larger than man-size" damage row in AD&D).

I haven't played 3e in over a year, but play AD&D a lot more frequently.  I guess that's what I get for rushing a character

Quote from: Imp;684325I wasn't going to say anything, but I think you're also missing 2 feats on both the fighter and wizard character sheets for 3.5e, because the fighter gets:

level 1: 1 feat, 1 human bonus feat, 1 fighter bonus feat
level 2: 1 fighter bonus feat
level 3: 1 feat

and the wizard gets:

level 1: 1 feat, 1 human bonus feat, scribe scroll, summon familiar
level 3: 1 feat

oh and also the fighter should have a +6 fort save thanks to his Con.

The last time I whipped up a sample 3e character for this forum, I think I used AD&D descending armor classes, though.

I didn't include any of the stat bonuses into the saves no purpose.  I just listed the base values.  And Wizards don't get another feat until level 5.  I think I did miss one of the fighter's bonus feats though.

As for just a character sheet comparison:

B/X
1e
2e
3e
4e
5e

Quote from: Sacrosanct;6844325e

That's one beautyful, classic-looking character sheet.
Seriously, that's a really classic look. I like it a lot.

Also btw, the 2e one really took me back - I loved the old green 2e character sheets! They were very cool.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;684431I didn't include any of the stat bonuses into the saves no purpose.  I just listed the base values.  And Wizards don't get another feat until level 5.  I think I did miss one of the fighter's bonus feats though.

Yeah but every character gets the one feat at level one and then feats at levels 3, 6, 9, etc. and the class bonus feats happen on top of that.

Quote from: The Ent;684429The broadsword: the red-headed stepchild of AD&D swords.
(...well actually I suppose that'd be the khopesh but, who cares about the khopesh!? )

But yeah it's weird how the broadsword's just plain worse than the longsword. Well okay that's not 100% true, I mean it does one point more minimal damage wich probably helps when fighting 1HD thrash like orcs or goblins, I mean a specialized fighter with Str 17 would do 5-11 rather than 4-11 wich makes a one hit kill somewhat more likely against such creatures but...really! He does half as much base damage against an ogre! Why!!?

...I sometimes played broadsword-wielding fighters because underdog weapon yay!

OTOH, for another example, in 2e scimitars and battleaxes are equal except scimitars are faster (and battleaxes might or might not be 2-handed). But then, battleaxes kinda get shafted in Basic too...

Yeah AD&D weapon damage was wonky.  I think OD&D was better for an abstract system. A 6' 2 hander or a 15" dagger can both end a life in one shot.

Next campaign I'm preparing to run (LL with AEC) will use class as the basis of weapon damage. Different weapons will have other properties that make them more or less suitable in certain situations.

Quote from: Godfather Punk;684373By popular demand I created with the DDI Character Builder a 4E Quick Essential 3rd  level human fighter and a mage (Evocation school). I left the choice all  the equipment, powers and other stats to the Builder software.

The Character sheet for the fighter is 5 pages long; the wizard's counts 6 pages.

And we still hear 4vengers claiming 4e is a very accessible game for new and casual players.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;684444Yeah AD&D weapon damage was wonky.  I think OD&D was better for an abstract system. A 6' 2 hander or a 15" dagger can both end a life in one shot.

Next campaign I'm preparing to run (LL with AEC) will use class as the basis of weapon damage. Different weapons will have other properties that make them more or less suitable in certain situations.

Hm. Agreed about OD&D, the LBB damage system is in many ways much more elegant than later systems.

Personally I have a soft spot for the Swords & Wizardry White Box system (like OD&D but two-handed weapons (except staves) do 1d6+1 and small weapons like daggers do 1d6-1. Critcal = +1 dmg if used. Neat two-weapon fighting rules, too.).

The class based damage idea is very neat (but I don't think I'll be using it myself, I find myself against it for some irrational reason :confused: no seriously I actually don't quite know why I wouldn't use it...)

Quote from: Haffrung;684445 And we still hear 4vengers claiming 4e is a very accessible game for new and casual players.

Haha yes. For some insane and stupid reason I can't quite fathom I went to the trouble of reading 20 or so pages of an anti-Mearls hatefest thread on TBP and oh yes several claimed 4e is very acessible. What are they on!? I want some of that, whatever it is!!! (allthough to be fair I don't think 4e is less accessible than 3.5e. Well actually I think it is, allthough it's a bit less trap-y/newb-bait-y.)

The accessability and ease of creating a 4E character is completely dependent on being connected to WOTC's E-nipple to suckle content.

This is fail point for an easy access tabletop game.

My observations:

The 4E character sheets are only 5-7 pages long because of the way it is laid out visually, with abilities and items looking like cards. Tons of wasted blank space on the sheets from the generator. A 1E cleric could easily have a multipage sheet if spells were included.

The 4E generator is fantastic, and makes character creation a breeze compared to a 3X character using paper.

1E/2E still kicks 4E's ass though; Everything after 2E has too many fiddly bits in my opinion.

I have an ongoing mission to get my pathfinder and 4E gamer friends to play 1E.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;684453The accessability and ease of creating a 4E character is completely dependent on being connected to WOTC's E-nipple to suckle content.

This is fail point for an easy access tabletop game.

I am one of the victims of the E-nipple.

However, I get a lot of mileage out of it.

For example, in a current 4e game I am playing in, and another one I am gming, of each has the players log into the gm's account and store the character sheets in that accounts generator.

It makes updating and printing character sheets a breeze.

Sure, I wish it were free, but its an amazingly usefull utility.

I would gladly pay for a 1E version. Take my money! please!

Quote from: Bill;684458I am one of the victims of the E-nipple.

However, I get a lot of mileage out of it.

For example, in a current 4e game I am playing in, and another one I am gming, of each has the players log into the gm's account and store the character sheets in that accounts generator.

It makes updating and printing character sheets a breeze.

Sure, I wish it were free, but its an amazingly usefull utility.

I would gladly pay for a 1E version. Take my money! please!

I was a subscriber and actually used the tools back when it was offline. Once my computer with the offline tools died I realized how much I depended on it to prep my campaign. No fuckin way was I gonna prep 4E statblocks for a sandbox campaign.

 I then had a moment of clarity and realized that any pen & paper rpg that required a subscription/software to prep was too much hassle to run. So I no longer run games that make me dread prep. No WOTC D&D no PF, etc.

If 5E passes the prep test and I like it then there is a chance I might run a campaign with it.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;684472I was a subscriber and actually used the tools back when it was offline. Once my computer with the offline tools died I realized how much I depended on it to prep my campaign. No fuckin way was I gonna prep 4E statblocks for a sandbox campaign.

 I then had a moment of clarity and realized that any pen & paper rpg that required a subscription/software to prep was too much hassle to run. So I no longer run games that make me dread prep. No WOTC D&D no PF, etc.

If 5E passes the prep test and I like it then there is a chance I might run a campaign with it.

I find 4e a breeze to prep, but I would gladly only play pre 3X if I could pry the pathfinder and 4E from players hands.

Quote from: Bill;684475I find 4e a breeze to prep,

Without DDI or a working version of the offline tools would you still consider it a breeze?

I was running a Mystara sandbox campaign and pretty much modifying every npc/monster to custom fit in the MB.

Without that, the "stats" part of prep became more than I wanted to bother with.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;684479Without DDI or a working version of the offline tools would you still consider it a breeze?

I was running a Mystara sandbox campaign and pretty much modifying every npc/monster to custom fit in the MB.

Without that, the "stats" part of prep became more than I wanted to bother with.

4E is unplayable without DDI.

But I have had it for years with no issues, so my experience is breezy

Customizing with 4e has been easy for me using every seetting from Vault of the drow, Dark sun, ravenloft, no issues.

Its effortless compared to 3X.

That being said, I do dream of 1E.


I have been reluctant to 'force' people to play 1E. I am too nice.

When the Apocalypse happens and the power grid goes down, you 4e players are SCREWED!