Quote from: CRKrueger;542424Wounds: 8 (note the stamina section was not raised by Curing the wounds)

I would allow the overflow to run into the Stamina section to (A) allow those spells do be useful when rest isn't available to recover Stamina and (B) so that it's not a waste to apply such spells to only slightly wounded characters.

I do, however, agree with the sentiment that this doesn't feel like traditional D&D for me.  

My solution to the desire some have for quick healing would be a section in the GM guide advising DMs how to make quick healing available, if desired, in the form of cheap and readily available healing potions (akin to the healing packs available in computer games) or perhaps a reasonably low-level Cleric spell that works, in conjunction with a night's sleep, to perform the quick one-day healing trick in a way that's easily included or removed from the game.

Quote from: John Morrow;542487My solution to the desire some have for quick healing would be a section in the GM guide advising DMs how to make quick healing available, if desired, in the form of cheap and readily available healing potions (akin to the healing packs available in computer games) or perhaps a reasonably low-level Cleric spell that works, in conjunction with a night's sleep, to perform the quick one-day healing trick in a way that's easily included or removed from the game.

I simply think that is just impossible at this point.  Trying to get the playtest more like earlier forms of D&D then it already is is a fool's errand in my opinion.  The only thing left is to try and make it as less like 4e as can be done.  If that means new mechanics, then so be it, I would rather have some form of new "non-D&D" mechanic that accomplishes the same thing then the 4e-style healing rules we got in the playtest.

Please no more HP subsystems.  Just give me HP.  Please.

Quote from: B.T.;542525Please no more HP subsystems.  Just give me HP.  Please.

Currently you're getting HPs that completely refresh every night and the ability to potentially regen most of them during the day as well, so you can do nearly double your HPs in non-magical healing by "resting".  There's your HPs, welcome to 5e.  

Quote from: CRKrueger;542486Well right there I'm with ya, I've been using HPs forever, can still use 'em.  But if the options are something like I was working on or what they currently have in 5e, then I'd rather they fix it then leave it as is.

I guess that has been my whole point in what I want with 5e.

the two things, from a meta-marketing position, that you want to do is create as little exclusion and as much inclusion as possible, and to avoid inter-game wars.  These things seem alike, but are different.

Also, from a gaming specific marketiing view, embrace the fact that gamers house-rule, and plan for it, enable it, and hell, maybe even make some money off it.

To do this, you create a nice little self contained base ruleset, and then create advanced rules in different areas to allow for the GM to customize the rulest to the type of game they want to play.

This is an example that the base ruleset would have straight HP, and CRKrueger's would show up in the first 'advanced combat' book.

And GMs can choose to use it if they want a game with less abstract HP and a game with more combat focus.  And no one is excluded, and there are more people under the bloody WotC tent.

Quote from: CRKrueger;542558Currently you're getting HPs that completely refresh every night and the ability to potentially regen most of them during the day as well, so you can do nearly double your HPs in non-magical healing by "resting".  There's your HPs, welcome to 5e.  

That is because they are a slave to sacred cows.  

You cannot increase HP without increasing healing spells ability to heal.  Keeping the cure spells at the(or nearly) same amount is moronic.

HP recuperation from natural healing should have been based upon percentages not a standard hp amount.  That way when both the Fighter and Wizard who are at half HP would be back on their feet around the same time, instead of the bullshit way it was done.

Quote from: CRKrueger;542488I simply think that is just impossible at this point.  Trying to get the playtest more like earlier forms of D&D then it already is is a fool's errand in my opinion.

The stated goal, which I think is a good one, was to allow people to select options so the game resembles the form of D&D they prefer the most.  My solution is to simply cut to the chase and acknowledge what they are trying to do using the sort of solution that's existed with D&D since the beginning, which is healing potions and healing spells.  Want to make healing cheap and easy, then the easiest solution within the context of the D&D paradigm is to simply making the existing forms of magical healing, potions and spells, cheap and easy.  Basically, admit that they are looking for the equivalent of healing packs in a game like Doom.

Quote from: CRKrueger;542488The only thing left is to try and make it as less like 4e as can be done.  If that means new mechanics, then so be it, I would rather have some form of new "non-D&D" mechanic that accomplishes the same thing then the 4e-style healing rules we got in the playtest.

One of the biggest problem that a lot of people have with 4e are the disassociated mechanics, so things like healing surges and having characters naturally heal overnight would mean embracing exactly what many hate most about D&D 4e, which is exactly what they shouldn't be doing.

Your solution isn't bad, but it adds more complexity, which a lot of people don't want.  The other potentially concern with your solutions is that it quantifies something that's long been problematic, which is exactly what hit points represent.  Once you separate Stamina damage and Wound damage in a clear way for healing, that leads to the idea that one should also divide damage the same way.  While the Hero System does this effectively, it also creates a lot of overhead.

Quote from: Sommerjon;542616You cannot increase HP without increasing healing spells ability to heal.

Make healing spells a d4 and multiply the die by the level of the recipient of the healing, perhaps maxing that at the level of the caster.  Do the same with healing over time.  Of course that still means that wizards will "heal" faster than fighters, which is counter-intuitive, but that's because hit points, themselves, are problematic because they are a non-representational abstraction that easily becomes disassociated outside of damage in combat.  But I wouldn't expect D&D to change that.

I've been doing (base spell healing, d8 or whatever) + (target's level) for some time, now.  Healing doesn't quite scale with level, your high-level fighters still suck up most of the healing, but it splits the difference a bit.  Works at my table, in any case.

If they do leave HPs exactly the way they are now in the playtest, it's pretty simple, but I think the overnight insta-heal is too far from D&D to be really "core".

It's saying something about how the game is played, (ie built around the 24 time slot).  It's a weird combo of the "15-min adventuring day" from 3e and the "always at full resources for the next encounter" from 4e. It's like they took 4e healing and just shoehorned it into a 24 window, thinking that would please Old Schoolers, without even having the concept of association in their minds.  It's like Ben was saying, they still don't "get it".

You guys have a point in that since the current HP rules are so simple, it is easy to houserule, and so off the chart easy that only the most rabid 4venger can complain.  I just think something this fundamental being so far from original D&D (like MM at-will) doesn't bode well for the final game since it is advancing from incorrect First Principles.

Talking about proportionate healing: the DCC RPG also heals using the idea of Dice.  When a Cleric magically heals, his spell roll generates a number of Healing Dice.  Certain critical effects take up dice (broken bone - 1 die, organ damage 2 -dice, etc) and dice applied to HPs use the Character's HD to heal, so the healing will be proportionate to HPs by class.

Quote from: CRKrueger;542653Talking about proportionate healing: the DCC RPG also heals using the idea of Dice.  When a Cleric magically heals, his spell roll generates a number of Healing Dice.  Certain critical effects take up dice (broken bone - 1 die, organ damage 2 -dice, etc) and dice applied to HPs use the Character's HD to heal, so the healing will be proportionate to HPs by class.

Dude that's awesome. I like this!

I'm excited. The game's been shipped to me today.

That is pretty clever.  I've been using HackMaster crits in most of my games - this may end up being my new method of removing the effects.

Quote from: Planet Algol;542445D&D Next Healing Fix

Quote from: thedungeondelver;542461Planet Algol wins.

Yeah, Planet Algol had the right idea on the first page.

Why? Just look at how healing as presented will affect the monsters that you run away from in D&D Next. Take the Kobold Lair from the bastardized B2 in the playtest. Let's say that the PCs only get halfway and then retreat to regroup and come back later - every monster not killed will be back at full HP in the morning, and have extra traps set to nail the PCs.

In each adventure, unless the opponents are killed outright on the first pass this same pattern will happen again and again. Makes the sorry meme of "Always fighting orcs" come to life as "Always fighting the boss monsters".

Quote from: jeff37923;542806Yeah, Planet Algol had the right idea on the first page.

Why? Just look at how healing as presented will affect the monsters that you run away from in D&D Next. Take the Kobold Lair from the bastardized B2 in the playtest. Let's say that the PCs only get halfway and then retreat to regroup and come back later - every monster not killed will be back at full HP in the morning, and have extra traps set to nail the PCs.

In each adventure, unless the opponents are killed outright on the first pass this same pattern will happen again and again. Makes the sorry meme of "Always fighting orcs" come to life as "Always fighting the boss monsters".

so we should take one adventure written with a certain rule set in mind, and wonder why it would not do as well with a different ruleset?

99% of my games the PCs do not finish an adventure in the first pass.  But my adventures are written for my rules.  
Derp, de derp, what a surprise, they work fine.

might as well complain that a salt water fish is impossible and an abomination becasue it does not survice well in a fresh water ecosystem.