Quote from: jhkimIt depends what you mean by that.  Saying that many women like Cosmo is not sexist, in my opinion.  Assuming that because a set of people are women, that they will like Cosmo, is sexist.  

Her claim is that she thinks they are doing the latter.  I don't offhand agree with that (I haven't read the book yet), but that's her basis.  A parallel would be trying to sell tech gadgets to more women by offering them in pink colors or with girly designs on them, assuming that women like pink, girly things.  However, here's an article from Wired -- "What Do Women Want?  Less Pink, More Tech -- reporting on a survey that only 9% of women (specifically 750 randomly-selected British women age 24 to 45) would want such products.

Uhm. I like pink. I have pink dice, a pink Nintendo Gameboy,... who doesn't like pink?

Quote from: Elliot WilenShe's not only the person who took Storygames to task for TonyLB's ¡Muy Macho! thread, she's also the person who criticized Spirit of the Century for its treatment of women and minorities, and earlier, IIRC, she attacked Ron Edwards saying that "Role-playing with women at the table is a sensual experience [...] with sexual undertones."

Now, I have my thoughts (often blithely uninformed) about each of these "incidents", but I do not think it's fair to see the SG crowd as having a monolithic opinion in lockstep with peaseblossom's views.

I would agree that it isn't by any means monolithic.

Quote from: Abyssal MawUhm. I like pink. I have pink dice, a pink Nintendo Gameboy,... who doesn't like pink?

Commies.  

Y'know, no one book, or ad campaign, or fat-free yogurt or hunky dude or cataclysm or anything is going to get women playing.  

It'll be a combination of things, more than I can think of.

So if this book is part of that combo, and some of the ladies who would pick up the book do pick up the book and they start playing (in other words, if the book reaches its target audience) -- victory.  

It isn't gonna work for, appeal to or get read by everyone with fallopian tubes.  I say, let it try its mojo where it can.

My wife and I were just talking about this.  She'd wanted to write a book on the same subject herself, because as a gamer herself, she often gets treated (by some people) as an oddity.

Not long ago, she saw this dude at the mall wearing this "AC/HP" shirt (you know, looks like an "AC/DC" logo).  She said to him, "Hey, cool shirt!"

And the guy, she says, looked at her funny and said, "Oh, your husband must game."

And she stared back at him and said, "I do."

Me, I don't get this.  What the fuck?  Am I just lucky that I've known a goodly amount of female gamers, and was always actually GLAD to share my hobby with them, regardless of sexual attraction?  Look, I'm just glad to have other nerds to play with, really.


I don't...I don't get it.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Y'know, no one book, or ad campaign, or fat-free yogurt or hunky dude or cataclysm or anything is going to get women playing.

Does that mean that they won't be swooning over the magic deer?

Doc R.,

 What you say is not strange at all.

 Southwest Ohio here has LOTS of women gamers.  I haven't been in an "all male gaming group" in over 14 years.

 Every group that I've either GMed or been a player in has had at 1 or 2 women as players.

 My campaign in 1991/92 was 5 women and 1 man as the playing group.

- Ed C.

Quote from: jrientsBTW, I've google several permutations "john" "nephew" "arduin" and/or "grimoire" and come up with nothing.  I hit my own blog before finding the article we're looking for, which suggests to me that the piece in question is not available online anymore.

My bad. It was Jonathon Tweet. I got my Atlas guys mixed upfor a second.
http://www.jonathantweet.com/jotgamemisogyny.html

The Arduin piece is on there.
http://www.jonathantweet.com/jotgamearduin.html

Great review.

Quote from: jhkimThere may be some personal issues there, but it seems pretty clear that she doesn't hate it, say, because it's D&D.

Perhaps you weren't interpreting the subtex purposefully enough.  Get your agenda straight, man!

By the way, I picked up the book tonight.  I've only had enough time to get about one chapter in, and I can see that the book is not for everyone.  But then, it clearly wasn't meant for everyone, so that's a fine thing.  It relies on that sort of snappy dialogue-with-the-audience prose common to one-person plays and segements of "This American Life".  It's fun.  I can see that the author was given the task of writing a book about RPGs and women, and decided to start with women, then work her way toward the gaming aspect.  Cue the arguments over parsing the difference between the phrases "I'm a woman who plays RPGs" and "I'm a roleplayer who's a woman".

The book is also very explicitly about D&D (they're the one's writing her advance and royalty checks, after all), but it's also clear that she's talking about "D&D" in the generic sense of RPGs in general.

I'll try to finish it this weekend and write up a proper review.

!i!

Quote from: John MorrowDoes that mean that they won't be swooning over the magic deer?

Yeah, now there's a hypocrisy! The Magic Deer is a wonderful step in the right direction that was supposed to bring women rushing to play RPGs, whereas this book is some kind of crypto-sexist evil that must be stopped.  :rolleyes:

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditYeah, now there's a hypocrisy! The Magic Deer is a wonderful step in the right direction that was supposed to bring women rushing to play RPGs, whereas this book is some kind of crypto-sexist evil that must be stopped.  :rolleyes:

Yeah, hypocrits, the lot of them.  

Hell, one of those swine will say one thing -- and then another of them will say the complete opposite!  Almost like they're disagreeing!  They obviously are lying through their teeth and trying to disguise the fact that they all are exactly alike, to cover up their giant conspiracy.

It's all been downhill since they got the vote!

Story Gamers can vote?

Shit.Fuck. We're all dead!

Quote from: Caesar SlaadGoogle "women of the camarilla" calendar.

http://www.blackbookart.com/camwomen/index.html

Quote from: John MorrowDoes that mean that they won't be swooning over the magic deer?

Had Blue Rose got into the same distro networks as its Romantic Fantasy inspirations, that would have been another piece of the puzzle.  Idyll could maybe achieve a smaller piece of that goal if they had the budget to advertise at online centers for that genre.

Quote from: Zachary The Firsthttp://www.blackbookart.com/camwomen/index.html

:suicide:


Alright, I'm kidding. Only a little.