QuoteI remember that being discussed after Lost came out. IIRC the consensus was that if genuinely "benevolent" keepers did exist, then their guests would never want to leave. A fairy offering an escape to a fantasy world where all your wishes come true? What kind of person, in what kind of position, would accept that offer? How many of those who accept will ever want to leave? How long do you think it would take before they forgot they were ever human in the first place?

It's Faerie. Domain of contracts and obligations. Even benevolent Faeries won't be - cannot be "all your wishes came true" not in a real way.
And as Faerie Domain is Dream Domain - humans even in nice parts can start to recognize it's in some powerful way... FAKE. (And I mean that's of course place where I shank oWoD Changeling - Dreaming is Fake, Mundane is Real, even nice places in Faerie are unreal for genuine life and being. Sure some will stay there forever entrapped by glamours and terrors as drug addicts.

QuoteRemember Disney's Peter Pan? That's a perfect example of a "benevolent" keeper. Neverland tricks children into staying by providing them with endless adventures until they eventually forget they ever lived anywhere else.

In Spielberg's Hook, the situation is reversed. Peter Banning is a changeling who escaped Neverland, Captain Hook is the keeper trying desperately to win him back so they can keeping playing forever.

That's close to my sentiment - Neverland is fake. Even when it's nice-fake and cool-fake.
Like being trapped in real D&D session.

QuoteAnd now I'm remembering why I always thought Lost was the best game WW ever produced.

Ha! But precisely I think adding nice elements to Lost - in a way I described is still enriching.
That's because I want to see Faerie as some element of overreaching metaphysics, some broken mirror of communal psyche - hey sort of like Chris' Astral Gods now that I think about it - more than simply weird Nightmare Horror.

Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 25, 2021, 02:59:59 PM

QuoteI remember that being discussed after Lost came out. IIRC the consensus was that if genuinely "benevolent" keepers did exist, then their guests would never want to leave. A fairy offering an escape to a fantasy world where all your wishes come true? What kind of person, in what kind of position, would accept that offer? How many of those who accept will ever want to leave? How long do you think it would take before they forgot they were ever human in the first place?

It's Faerie. Domain of contracts and obligations. Even benevolent Faeries won't be - cannot be "all your wishes came true" not in a real way.
And as Faerie Domain is Dream Domain - humans even in nice parts can start to recognize it's in some powerful way... FAKE. (And I mean that's of course place where I shank oWoD Changeling - Dreaming is Fake, Mundane is Real, even nice places in Faerie are unreal for genuine life and being. Sure some will stay there forever entrapped by glamours and terrors as drug addicts.

QuoteRemember Disney's Peter Pan? That's a perfect example of a "benevolent" keeper. Neverland tricks children into staying by providing them with endless adventures until they eventually forget they ever lived anywhere else.

In Spielberg's Hook, the situation is reversed. Peter Banning is a changeling who escaped Neverland, Captain Hook is the keeper trying desperately to win him back so they can keeping playing forever.

That's close to my sentiment - Neverland is fake. Even when it's nice-fake and cool-fake.
Like being trapped in real D&D session.

QuoteAnd now I'm remembering why I always thought Lost was the best game WW ever produced.

Ha! But precisely I think adding nice elements to Lost - in a way I described is still enriching.
That's because I want to see Faerie as some element of overreaching metaphysics, some broken mirror of communal psyche - hey sort of like Chris' Astral Gods now that I think about it - more than simply weird Nightmare Horror.

I think it's enriching because this, at least the way you put it, plays right into the themes of the game. There's no reason why keepers should limit their hunting behavior to purely kidnapping victims who don't want to come. Deliberately luring dissatisfied people by playing on their desires provides all sorts of new ways to design keepers and changelings backstories, and it makes the keepers that much more a psychological horror. There's always a danger that someone could be ensnared, you go on a rescue mission, and then discover that they don't want to leave.

Yes.

Generally as I wanted to have 7 main races linked to 7 deadly sins, I'd like to link Faerie beings to Envy - Faerie beings themselves suffer from unreality - therefore kidnapping human children both to sort of feast on their reality, and for lesser faerie to live as mortal fetches (tbh those fetches should be called changelings if we use whole faerie language properly - but hey if there is one thing WoD is doing really shitty - it's NAMING THINGS. Dear lord, their naming customs are... BAD. From ultra generic terms of nWoD to permanently misused terms of oWoD, always BAD. (Except of Correspondence Sphere - it's cool, suck it Space losers).

And of course for changelings themselves those who escaped there is envy towards real people, they lost their life, and maybe part of their... selves by being tainted by Dream.
This is their struggle now.

Big WOTC announcement today:

Hasbro is reorganizing and giving tabletop gaming -- Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: the Gathering -- a higher priority.

According to the Wall Street Journal, WotC's revenue last year was $816 million (a 24% increase on 2019). Brian Goldner, Hasbro's Chief Executive, says WotC is predicted to double revenue from 2019 to 2023.

Hasbro is dividing into three 'units' -- Consumer Products (toys, classic board games); Entertainment (film, TV, licensing); and Wizards & Digital (WotC plus digital licensing).

Hasbro bought WotC in 1999 for about $325M.

Link:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/dungeons-dragons-gets-a-bigger-role-at-hasbro-11614254403?f

Big 'Doctor Who' Announcement November 25, 2013

'Doctor Who': Record-setting ratings:
https://ew.com/article/2013/11/25/doctor-who-ratings-day/

How many U.S. viewers tuned in for "Day of the Doctor"?

Enough to break BBC America's all-time ratings record. ... On Twitter, Doctor Who overall generated a total of 1.8 million tweets, beating every show on cable for the week.

The company claims Doctor Who earned a Guinness World Record for the "largest ever simulcast of a TV drama" following the global release which saw the episode broadcast in 94 countries at the same time. The BBC released over the weekend that the episode was seen by 10.2 million viewers in the UK.

Quote from: The BBC on February 25, 2021, 03:50:54 PM
BBC executive 1: "This is amazing. Dr. Who is going from strength to strength!"

BBC executive 2: "What can we do to ensure this dynamic growth?"

BBC executive 1: "I know, lets go Full-Woke! We will add all those marginalized yet vibrant potential fans that are just waiting to watch the show once we have some representation in our cast, and our plotlines have relevant messaging!"

BBC executive 2: "Yes, Brilliant! Diversity will become our strength!"" 

Fast Forward to 2017: Moffat + Full-Woke =

Big 'Doctor Who' Announcement July 10, 2017

Doctor Who ratings for last series lowest since it returned to TV in 2005
https://www.irishnews.com/magazine/entertainment/2017/07/10/news/doctor-who-ratings-for-last-series-lowest-since-it-returned-to-tv-in-2005-1080816/

Ratings for the latest series of Doctor Who were the lowest since the programme returned to screens in 2005, new figures show.

...almost two million below the average ratings for 2014.

The next Doctor is due to be revealed in the 2017 Christmas episode, which will also be the last to be produced by Steven Moffat, who has been in charge of the show since 2010.

The 2017 series – the last to feature Peter Capaldi in the title role – also saw the lowest audience to date for a single episode...

Quote from: The BBC on February 25, 2021, 03:50:54 PM
BBC executive 1: "Damn those toxic cis-gendered Dr. Who fans!. "

BBC executive 2: "Damn them? Are we not Woke! Where are all those new vibrant and diverse fans that were supposed to take us to ratings high after ratings high!?"

BBC executive 1: "You fail to understand my good man. You see we are obviously not Woke enough! There is still a white male in the lead role as the Doctor! We have not yet purged ourselves of the toxic gatekeeping elements in the Dr. Who fanbase! We have to engage all the new vibrant fans with Full representation! The Next Doctor must be a Woman! We must have MOAR Diversity!"

BBC executive 2: "Indeed! How could we have been so blind! We clearly do not have enough Diversity to claim it as a strength!  A female Doctor, and Companions of color forever! I see it now my good fellow; a female Doctor combined with our socially relevant messaging that we push in every episode will ensure a meteoric rise in ratings and popularity!"

BBC executive 1: "By Jove! I think that we have finally got it!" 

Fast Forward to 2020: Chinballs + Female Doctor + MOAR-Woke =

Big 'Doctor Who' Announcement March 9, 2020

Doctor Who suffers lowest ratings since 2005 revival:
https://www.standard.co.uk/culture/tvfilm/doctor-who-series-12-ratings-low-a4382666.html

Doctor Who has slumped to its lowest ratings since the programme was revived in 2005, according to new viewing figures.

This is also the lowest since Doctor Who was relaunched 15 years ago.

...below the previous all-time low..., which was set by an episode in 2017.

This year's series appears no fewer than six times in a top 10 of the least-watched Doctor Who episodes since 2005.

WotC was more profitable than the entire of Hasbros toy and game division, by 112 Million.

Quote from: Mistwell on February 27, 2021, 11:39:21 AM
WotC was more profitable than the entire of Hasbros toy and game division, by 112 Million.

I know! Amazing right!?

Have you caught on yet that no one is disputing that 5e is selling amazingly well?

But how much of that WOTC profit is D&D, and how much is MAGIC?

Did you know that WOTC did not beat the toy and game division by the number of products sold?

They beat the Hasbro toy and game division due to their higher profit margins on certain products.

I'm not sure what the margins are on Hardcover D&D books vs. little Magic cards... Anyone??

WOTC = D&D + MAGIC.

The problem with recent Doctor Who isn't that it's woke.  It's that it's shit.

Quote from: TJS on February 27, 2021, 10:29:57 PM
The problem with recent Doctor Who isn't that it's woke.  It's that it's shit.

I have noticed a correlation between those two attributes though.

Quote from: Jaeger on February 27, 2021, 09:37:04 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on February 27, 2021, 11:39:21 AM
WotC was more profitable than the entire of Hasbros toy and game division, by 112 Million.

I know! Amazing right!?

Have you caught on yet that no one is disputing that 5e is selling amazingly well?

But how much of that WOTC profit is D&D, and how much is MAGIC?

Did you know that WOTC did not beat the toy and game division by the number of products sold?

They beat the Hasbro toy and game division due to their higher profit margins on certain products.

I'm not sure what the margins are on Hardcover D&D books vs. little Magic cards... Anyone??

WOTC = D&D + MAGIC.

Magic cards have an insane profit margin. D&D books would have probably the standard for books.

QuoteI have noticed a correlation between those two attributes though.

nuWho was woke from the beginning, it became broken mostly due to screenwriters being additionaly dumbass.
I'd say Moffat was not more woke than Davis, but aside of one-shot mystery episode he is bad storyteller so any woke stuff, and TBH any sci-fi stuff in his era is just like this thorn in your side.

Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 28, 2021, 05:21:47 AM

QuoteI have noticed a correlation between those two attributes though.

nuWho was woke from the beginning, it became broken mostly due to screenwriters being additionaly dumbass.
I'd say Moffat was not more woke than Davis, but aside of one-shot mystery episode he is bad storyteller so any woke stuff, and TBH any sci-fi stuff in his era is just like this thorn in your side.

There are degree's of woke...

Fans liked the new Dr. Who. Until they didn't.

Most fans of a given IP are willing to tolerate a degree of wokeness, if that show/game/etc., otherwise delivers elements they like.

If they find that they enjoy themselves more than the bits of wokeness irritates them, the wokeness tends to get a pass.

Unfortunately, the proponents of wokeness all too often mistake tolerance for acceptance. (Notice how the woke always seems to get dialed up – not dialed down...)

Generally speaking, I find that those of the woke persuasion seem to have an all or nothing mentality. You are either in, or you are out. You are a good person, or you are evil and deplorable. I have see this all or nothing mentality at work in arguments on other RPG forums where they are talking about restricting playable races: "You already have make believe Dragons, why would Tieflings upset the verisimilitude of your setting? What's the difference?"

And the same goes for the woke. It is worth noting that they do seem to inherently understand that going full-Woke right away with well established IP is counter to their goals...
But if even a little bit gets a pass, they gradually start to turn up the dial thinking that if everyone was Ok with a little woke, then they obviously would have no problem with a lot of Woke.

Thus went the fate of the new Dr. Who...


The following naturally has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the future of D&D which is owned by WOTC, which is owned by HASBRO.

MR. POTATO HEAD GOING GENDER NEUTRAL
Toy maker Hasbro put out some major damage control after it was revealed earlier today that they would be removing the Mister from Mr. Potato Head.
"The Associated Press reported: "Hasbro, the company that makes the potato-shaped plastic toy, is giving the spud a gender neutral new name: Potato Head. The change will appear on boxes this year."
https://boundingintocomics.com/2021/02/25/hasbro-puts-out-damage-control-after-mr-potato-head-disaster/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=hasbro-puts-out-damage-control-after-mr-potato-head-disaster

Following significant backlash on social media, Hasbro put out a damage control tweet in order to spin the narrative in their favor.

They tweeted, "Hold that Tot – your main spud, MR. POTATO HEAD isn't going anywhere!"

Hasbro then claimed that they had only changed the brand name and logo for Mr. Potato Head not the actual toy."

The original press release, https://archive.is/Tefqi it begins by stating, "Hasbro today announced the iconic brand will be reimagined for the modern consumer."

the original press release, it begins by stating, "Hasbro today announced the iconic brand will be reimagined for the modern consumer."

It went on to state, "Hasbro is making sure all feel welcome in the Potato Head world by officially dropping the Mr. from the Mr. Potato Head brand name and logo to promote gender equality and inclusion."
The original press release also states, "The name change will come with a fresh branding look with a whimsical color palette and more inclusive messaging along with new product to appeal to the modern consumer."

The current press release on their corporate website does not include any of this language. "

#NothingisSacred

Quote from: Jaeger on March 02, 2021, 07:43:50 PM
Generally speaking, I find that those of the woke persuasion seem to have an all or nothing mentality. You are either in, or you are out. You are a good person, or you are evil and deplorable. I have see this all or nothing mentality at work in arguments on other RPG forums where they are talking about restricting playable races: "You already have make believe Dragons, why would Tieflings upset the verisimilitude of your setting? What's the difference?"

And the same goes for the woke. It is worth noting that they do seem to inherently understand that going full-Woke right away with well established IP is counter to their goals...
But if even a little bit gets a pass, they gradually start to turn up the dial thinking that if everyone was Ok with a little woke, then they obviously would have no problem with a lot of Woke.

...and the fact that they are 'all or nothing' yet realize their messaging only works in increments tells you how dishonest they are.  If the little brownshirts thought their message was true and not simply a way to project power, they would know that it could stand on its own...

Quote from: Jaeger on March 02, 2021, 07:43:50 PM
The original press release, https://archive.is/Tefqi it begins by stating, "Hasbro today announced the iconic brand will be reimagined for the modern consumer."

the original press release, it begins by stating, "Hasbro today announced the iconic brand will be reimagined for the modern consumer."

It went on to state, "Hasbro is making sure all feel welcome in the Potato Head world by officially dropping the Mr. from the Mr. Potato Head brand name and logo to promote gender equality and inclusion."
The original press release also states, "The name change will come with a fresh branding look with a whimsical color palette and more inclusive messaging along with new product to appeal to the modern consumer."

The current press release on their corporate website does not include any of this language. "

#NothingisSacred

My first thought when I saw the press release earlier was...

'I wonder what kind of interchangeable parts are going in that one...' 

Quote from: Mistwell on February 25, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/dungeons-dragons-gets-a-bigger-role-at-hasbro-11614254403?f

This article has a strange quote ... "Hasbro hopes the reorganization will allow it to replicate Wizard of the Coast's success in digital games."

So, it appears that WotC big increase in revenue has little to do with face-to-face RPGs like D&D and everything to do with MTG Arena.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 02, 2021, 10:36:42 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on February 25, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/dungeons-dragons-gets-a-bigger-role-at-hasbro-11614254403?f

This article has a strange quote ... "Hasbro hopes the reorganization will allow it to replicate Wizard of the Coast's success in digital games."

So, it appears that WotC big increase in revenue has little to do with face-to-face RPGs like D&D and everything to do with MTG Arena.

Yes.

MAGIC was always the bigger earner over D&D by orders of magnitude.

Even Magic grew 23% this year...

Quote from: moonsweeper on March 02, 2021, 09:43:03 PM
...

...and the fact that they are 'all or nothing' yet realize their messaging only works in increments tells you how dishonest they are.  If the little brownshirts thought their message was true and not simply a way to project power, they would know that it could stand on its own...
...

Exactly.