Quote from: Christopher Brady;1081934There is no such thing as a 'story game', it is a derogatory term used to slander games that Pundit does not like.  That is it, that is all.

You wish Timmy.

Quote from: Omega;1082210You wish Timmy.

Indeed
http://story-games.com/forums/discussions

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And to be fair the Pundit is not the only one to had an attitude about the issue in the past.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130115234923/http://www.story-games.com/forums/

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My personal position for the past decade that the extremes at both ends needed a reality check. Unfortunately this only comes up rarely because the argument often doesn't move on from the debate that there is a difference to begin with.

To the credit of the participants, this thread is one of the exceptions where the conversation has moved on to explore the implications and other aspects of the topic.

Except for Brady of course.

Quote from: Omega;1082210You wish Timmy.

You know what?  I do.  I'm sick and tired of watching the hobby being ripped apart by people who think their game style is better than anyone else, and if others don't want to mimic the style perfectly, then they're an -ist or doing it wrong or some other bullshit.

Edition Wars, Old School, Storygames, all terms that lead to division and derision.

Guess what?  That makes us no different than the SJWs who want to take over and push everyone who isn't puritan enough out.  It's depressing.  I wish we'd stop, but too many seem invested in this idea of 'purity' to care.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1082249You know what?  I do.  I'm sick and tired of watching the hobby being ripped apart by people who think their game style is better than anyone else, and if others don't want to mimic the style perfectly, then they're an -ist or doing it wrong or some other bullshit.

Edition Wars, Old School, Storygames, all terms that lead to division and derision.

Guess what?  That makes us no different than the SJWs who want to take over and push everyone who isn't puritan enough out.  It's depressing.  I wish we'd stop, but too many seem invested in this idea of 'purity' to care.

Yet you participate in it yourself. Roleplaying Games was decisive term in the 70s for wargames. Yet it got rubbed off over the decades as the years wore on. You freely talk about fantasy despite it being annoying to the war gamer of 1970 who focused on Napoleonics, Medieval, and World War II battles.

You keep decrying purity is a problem whenever any of us talk about differences in styles or type of games irregardless of what any of say or do.

In the past you criticized me for viewing OSR as a label for the group of hobbyist for playing, promoting, and publishing for classic edition of D&D. But never once you ask how I felt about people using that content to make alternatives.

Ignored the fact that for decades I championed open content, put my own material out as open content, and successfully convinced other to put their own content under an open license. Something that had done far more to advance the freedom of hobbyist to create the content they want in the form they want it than your hand wringing over purity has ever done.

Ignored the fact that not once I used my soapbox or reputation to shut down other people efforts. That when approached by other with system outside of classic D&D to use my material I encouraged and aided them like with Blackmarsh and Heroes and Other Worlds.

I want to there to better storygames. Games where it fun to collaborate on creating a narrative. I want more games with a variety of hybrids and approaches as people think differently about this stuff.

I do happened to think Story-game would better off pursuing their own path than setting themselves up as Tabletop roleplaying 2.0. Ido  think using the rules of the wargames that lies at the heart of RPGs to collabrate on a narrative is for the most part clunky and gets in the way. But hey it greate try and if made to work great!.

So Chris fuck your handwringing over purity. Get off your high horse and contribute something useful for a change.

Hear!  Hear!

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1082249You know what?  I do.  I'm sick and tired of watching the hobby being ripped apart by people who think their game style is better than anyone else

I very much doubt that this is the case outside of internet discussions regarding RPG theory.

The purpose of classification is to ease communication. The term RPG denotes a certain type of game and it gives raise to to certain expectations regarding these types of games. That's good because otherwise you'd have to elaborately describe what type of game you mean instead of calling it RPG. Every time. But if we're now endlessly debating over the minutiae of terminology which can already be roughly understood by everyone, such definition wars serve no purpose but ego-stroking.

This forum here wants to call certain games story games and exclude them from the umbrella RPG? Fine. Story-games.com calls their games RPG 2.0? The 2.0 part seems a bit objectionable/presumptive but the RPG part is also fine with me. As long as everybody understands what we're refering to in a given context, so be it.

Quote from: estar;1082252So Chris fuck your handwringing over purity. Get off your high horse and contribute something useful for a change.

I'm still trying to find what YOU'VE done that's positive.  I wouldn't complain if there was.  All I see is perpetuation of this division of the hobby.  You even have the balls to try and make Wargames into the SAME thing as RPGs, despite clear and obvious differences, unlike the blurring of RPG styles.  Apples to Oranges.

I'm making a call to UNITE, and ENJOY, no matter what people play.  This is NOT positive?  To have more people enjoy the hobby with us, to have ideas and new games, instead of little enclaves of tribes that hiss and claw at anyone that comes too close if they don't fit a specialized criteria.

So wanting people to have fun in their own way (as long as it's not actively and physically harming others, as I'm sure someone will invariably try and use that against me) is a bad thing now?

Right then...

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1082258I'm making a call to UNITE, and ENJOY, no matter what people play.  This is NOT positive?  

It is but I would recommend a different approach: let's drop these abstract discussions and talk games. What we enjoy in the games we play and what we don't enjoy in games we play.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1082258I'm still trying to find what YOU'VE done that's positive.  

LOL

[video=youtube;Y7tvauOJMHo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo[/youtube]

"What has Rob Conley ever done for us?!"

Quote from: S'mon;1082273LOL

[video=youtube;Y7tvauOJMHo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo[/youtube]

"What has Rob Conley ever done for us?!"

Anyone who wants or is able to continue the argument after this is both dirty, bad and a superhero. S'mon, you dropped this mic.

Quote from: Omega;1082210You wish Timmy.

He said "that is it, that is all." So, it's decided.

Quote from: estar;1082072For example imagined a core book for a D&D 4e Dark Sun with a completely different set of class and powers designed to give a campaign a Dark Sun feel. But otherwise uses the same engine as Core books.

Dark Sun Campaign Setting

So that's a thing. I've played in a few adventures for 4e DS and for what it's worth the game played completely different than an ordinary 4e game. No divine magic, arcane magic defiled the area, people we're hunted by cannibal halflings, no metal weapons or armor, natural 1's on attack rolls basically meant your weapon broke. Healing was extremely difficult and simply walking outside of any major city was a harrowing journey that could lead to death.

Now I admit my experience with Dark Sun is limited and maybe 4e isn't the best system for that but I felt it did a decent job of making it apocalyptic in nature and very dangerous. It also added aspects like Psionic themes everyone had and the inherent system that basically removed the need for magical items.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1081753Where is your proof?  I've shown mine, with page numbers and text.  If you have evidence, lay it out.  Page numbers, references.  I copy mine directly from my copy of the book.  Calling someone else a liar constantly with no evidence expecting others to believe you is the exact same thing the Regressive Left does.  SHOW ME YOUR EVIDENCE.  I am quite willing to be proven wrong.  Show ME.

You piece of shit, I responded, directly, pointing out how you took the tiny section you quoted completely OUT OF CONTEXT, knowingly and wilfully, and that all the rest of the text of that section PROVES YOU ARE A FUCKING LIAR.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1081762That's pretty much what Pundit claims the difference between RPGs and this weird Storygame label, he doesn't seem to know what it is, but he knows it when he sees it.

No, you fucking liar. Are you even capable of opening your mouth without lying? I've repeatedly given clear definitions for what constitutes a storygame.