Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1065922What if you don't want a long rest to be trivial AND they're in a place that has no hospitable places to rest for an extended period of time?

Like a megadungeon, but not the kind where you go back up and out every time. If you just say "you need to be back in town" then it's the same as saying they can't rest at all.

The Hut would provide a chance to rest in relative shelter but not being bulletproof if it's interpreted the right way.

The original AD&D version was fairly limited. A really strong wind could blow it away and it provided no protection at all from attacks. It was literally just a magic tent with central heating/cooling. And even that had its limitations. It also lasted 6 turns per level of the caster.

2e changed a few particulars, takes hurricane winds to blow it away, duration 4 hours per level, and specifically stating spells and missiles can pass through it without dispelling it. But it does obscure vision seeing inside it, and is dispellable.

The 3e version was huge with a 20ft radius sphere. Duration was now 2 hours per level. Its element and temperature protections were overall the same as the 2e version. And same for attacks and spells passing through it. But it does provide total cover. No mention of it being dispellable in the desc.

Apparently does not exist in the 4e core book.

The 5e version is radically different and I agree its too potent in this form even with it being only a dome.

Is there a reason I can't see new posts here? The forum is telling me new replies are appearing, but I only see rawma's last reply to me.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1066306Is there a reason I can't see new posts here? The forum is telling me new replies are appearing, but I only see rawma's last reply to me.

Maybe my advice is so wise and important that fate has conspired to keep it before you.

Or you could try clearing your browser's cache.

But if you see this then you've presumably resolved the issue, so I guess just carry on.

You know, I think in decades of playing D&D in almost every edition, I've never once had a game where anyone had this spell.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1066545You know, I think in decades of playing D&D in almost every edition, I've never once had a game where anyone had this spell.

Me too, until I started playing 5E. Almost immediately in medium level play (7the level+) people were using it. BTB, it's just too good not to. When you're out in the wilderness it effectively lets you get a long rest, even if you're surrounded by enemies who are literally banging on the surface of the "hut" to get in! You only have to cast it (10 mins casting time, I think) and you're invulnerable to almost anything for 8 hours!
Very silly spell as written, but does exactly what it was intended to.

It (previous to 5e) was one of those spells that made un-fun the focusing on those things that might necessitate it.

There's a certain type of gameplay one might have gravitated towards if you got into gaming right when the 1e AD&D Wilderness Survival Guide was published (or maybe being a camper/scout/etc. in real life). If you found the part of Hexcrawling that was fun was rolling  the random weather rolls and seeing whether the party was going to be able to make any progress during the day in monsoon season, or they were going to have hunker down and try desperately to keep a fire going. Much like the counting torches and managing encumbrance mini-game or the dungeon-crawl part of old school play, it can be a lot of fun, if you treat it as a challenge to overcome/puzzle to solve.

That's the kind of play where you might want LTH. The problem is, LTH instantly resolves that type of play. Are you going to survive the night without temperature/weather related issues? Let me see... yes! Yes you are, because you have this spell. Well now that kind of gaming isn't fun, so why do it? And if no one is doing that kind of gaming, then why learn the spell?

5e's ranger gets similar criticism. It makes the wilderness/exploration part of the game a non-issue (and thus unfun, so why play a ranger?), and/or negates penalties and problems the DM wouldn't have remembered to impose if there wasn't a ranger in the party.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1066545You know, I think in decades of playing D&D in almost every edition, I've never once had a game where anyone had this spell.

I have seen it in use and used it myself. It is a useful utility spell that in its original format was reasonable and could come in handy in various situations. Have not yet seen anyone take it in 5e. But wizards have been rare in my groups so far.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1066552It (previous to 5e) was one of those spells that made un-fun the focusing on those things that might necessitate it.

There's a certain type of gameplay one might have gravitated towards if you got into gaming right when the 1e AD&D Wilderness Survival Guide was published (or maybe being a camper/scout/etc. in real life). If you found the part of Hexcrawling that was fun was rolling  the random weather rolls and seeing whether the party was going to be able to make any progress during the day in monsoon season, or they were going to have hunker down and try desperately to keep a fire going. Much like the counting torches and managing encumbrance mini-game or the dungeon-crawl part of old school play, it can be a lot of fun, if you treat it as a challenge to overcome/puzzle to solve.

That's the kind of play where you might want LTH. The problem is, LTH instantly resolves that type of play. Are you going to survive the night without temperature/weather related issues? Let me see... yes! Yes you are, because you have this spell. Well now that kind of gaming isn't fun, so why do it? And if no one is doing that kind of gaming, then why learn the spell?

5e's ranger gets similar criticism. It makes the wilderness/exploration part of the game a non-issue (and thus unfun, so why play a ranger?), and/or negates penalties and problems the DM wouldn't have remembered to impose if there wasn't a ranger in the party.

I would not say the older iterations of the hut totally solved the issues of weather. Note that up to 3e the spell started to falter under extreme conditions, especially heat and cold. Also the AD&D version could be blown away by 50mph winds. and oddly enough by the description may actually NOT keep out rain or snow as it does not stop arrows or attacks.

2e clarified that yes it does stop rain, dust etc, but not projectiles or attacks. And bumped up the wind resistance to 75mph winds. (which you had to look up somewhere.)

3e is pretty much the same as 2e for what it stops and clarifies its wind resistance limit as 75mph.

5e is effectively a new spell with a similar name. Much like Goodberry.

It is also a ritual which means you can cast it for free forever.

Hmm, yeah. I guess the "long rest" feature is what suddenly makes it TOO useful.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1067094Hmm, yeah. I guess the "long rest" feature is what suddenly makes it TOO useful.

YMMV perhaps. The AD&D version lasted 1 hour per level, And a MU needed to be level 5 to cast it so 5 hours right out the gate. But. It was just a tent and not a defensive fort. 2e bumped it up to 4x that so one casting at level 6 and it lasts a whole day. But is still really limited. 10 hours for the 3e version when you pick it up. But otherwise the same spell.

But the 5e version as it exists is a mess even with its minor weakness of being able to be dug into or dispelled. Personally though Rope Trick is probably a better option as in 5e it is undetectable by many scrying methods and stops attacks. But is rather short lived at a mere hour. Good for a short rest at least.

I have ask, are we really out to kill all the players for wanting to rest and recover in the middle of a dungeon, so that they can play some more?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1067237I have ask, are we really out to kill all the players for wanting to rest and recover in the middle of a dungeon, so that they can play some more?

Do you really not see a problem with an invincible way to spam rests?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1067238Do you really not see a problem with an invincible way to spam rests?

Yup. It's the portable recharge to the 15-minute workday nova. It's broken, or a setting impact crater, if read as invulnerable.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1067238Do you really not see a problem with an invincible way to spam rests?

No, because the average gamer is not going to abuse it that way.  Not in my experience, anyway.