Basically, the spell is designed to let the PCs get a long (8hr) rest without being disturbed by wandering monsters. That's it. Don't worry about the details. It's a 5th Ed cludge to simplify things. If you don't like things to be simplified in that way, just ban the spell. It's really not worth worrying about how the details actually work in your world because it's not designed to be taken apart and studied in any depth whatsoever. It might as well just say, "When the wizard casts this spell the party gets a long rest. 8 hours pass without wandering monster checks."

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1065247Crawford said that, but he reversed himself later and said it did have a floor.

That is what I meant earlier. You can not trust what he says as he can and will contradict himself.

Quote from: Omega;1065262That is what I meant earlier. You can not trust what he says as he can and will contradict himself.

So you've never gone back on a ruling because it sounded better than it played out?  Methinks you're ascribing more importance to what the man says than it should be.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1065263So you've never gone back on a ruling because it sounded better than it played out?  Methinks you're ascribing more importance to what the man says than it should be.

He claims to be describing the intent of the written rules when they were written. Obviously this is false.

Quote from: S'mon;1065265He claims to be describing the intent of the written rules when they were written. Obviously this is false.

He also says your mileage may vary.  It sounds like people want to hate on him by actively looking for an excuse to do so.

Yes, he makes bad calls.  EVERYONE does.

For me, Tiny Hut is the Platonic ideal of a tent. It provides survivable, often comfortable shelter from the environment. Being magic, it is more sturdy than a canvas, rope, and wood spar tent.

It is a great example of a spell that solves a common, but not extraordinary problem for the party.

Holy crap! I have missed threads like these!

Talking about the nuance of spell use from 1e! ahh the memories. This is BBS-era gold!

Unfortunately, it's Leonmunds Hut... c'mon, this isn't hard. It doesn't defy gravity. It's a semi-neutral safe environmental zone. Pretty easy.

We should do a good ol' fashioned 1e Wish thread!!!

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1065267He also says your mileage may vary.  It sounds like people want to hate on him by actively looking for an excuse to do so.

Yes, he makes bad calls.  EVERYONE does.

He's paid to do it, is terribly sloppy and inconsistent, and display worse basic coherency than a 14 year-old novice GM making rulings.  His "contribution" is a net negative, by a rather large amount.  As in, the whole world of 5E would be a better place if WotC had simply not done the column at all.  That's not replacing him with someone better (as easy as that would be) but simply not doing the activity.

Quote from: tenbones;1065277Holy crap! I have missed threads like these!

Talking about the nuance of spell use from 1e! ahh the memories. This is BBS-era gold!

Unfortunately, it's Leonmunds Hut... c'mon, this isn't hard. It doesn't defy gravity. It's a semi-neutral safe environmental zone. Pretty easy.

We should do a good ol' fashioned 1e Wish thread!!!

Well, from the way the spell is worded in the book, and without any historical context to draw on, to me it sounds like some sort of Star Wars force field bubble.

Here's the actual text of the spell:

QuoteA 10-foot-radius dome appears around you and up to nine Medium or smaller creatures in the area. The spell fails if there is a creature larger than Medium or more than nine creatures. The spell ends if you leave its area.

The dome is immobile. Until the spell ends, you can make the inside be dimly lit or dark. The outside is opaque of any color you choose, but is transparent on the inside.

Creatures and objects in the dome's area when you cast the spell can move through it freely. Everything else is unable to enter. Spells and other magical effects can't pass the barrier of the dome on either end. The dome's atmosphere is always comfortable and dry, no matter the outside weather.

Note though that the range for the spell says "hemisphere."

I do admit though that thinking of it as just a magical tent makes a lot of sense... it just seems like the actual text is vague enough to support a lot of other interpretations. Which I guess was the point? But my first blush reading of it, and a lot of other people's, is basically that it's an iron bunker.

I mean, it even sounds like you can fire out of it (objects can move out of it), but Crawford says you can't.

If you just take it as it's written, then all the questions about how it has breathable air, IF it does, whether it has a bottom or whether it supports weight on it, come up.

Thing is. It is kinda vague. You can read it a few different ways. Has a floor? Doesn't have a floor?

Honestly. If it is intended to work like the original then it should have a floor if it is jyst a hemisphere now. The original kept out tunneling pests. If there is no floor field to the hut then anything can just dig under. Which brings up its own problems. They should have left it as a sphere needing a surface to cast it on. As is it is too dodgy.

Quote from: tenbones;1065277Unfortunately, it's Leonmunds Hut... c'mon, this isn't hard. It doesn't defy gravity. It's a semi-neutral safe environmental zone. Pretty easy.

The 1e version is fairly straightforward. The 5e version...eeeee not so much so due to the wording. Hence here we are.

So, using the Cliff Test - if the cliff fell out from under the person in the tent... one could say "You drop into freefall with the rocky debris... your Leomunds Tiny Hut dissipates the moment you leave it."

Easy peasy.

Quote from: jhkim;1065039In 1st edition, the spell was much less powerful. It was just the equivalent of a good shelter. It didn't protect against attacks and wasn't implied to have a floor. It basically just regulated the temperature some and provided shelter against wind and sun. (Although interestingly, rope trick which was 2nd level was roughly just as powerful as the current version.)

In 2nd edition, it basically just created a hut. It protected against attacks to the same extent a regular wooden hut would protect against attacks.

I see nothing in the 5E spell text to indicate that the 5E version is any different. Unlike Wall of Force, there is no "immune to all damage" clause. It appears to just create a construct out of magical force, like Bigby's Hand, but one which you can go inside of and rest in and be comfortable--but there's no reason to think it cannot be destroyed as easily as a regular hut. Against determined attackers, at most it should buy you some time to wake up and get ready (or flee) before monsters tear the walls down.

It's not Leomund's Tiny Invulnerable Fortress.

Does it have a floor? It doesn't matter much, but as a DM I'm inclined to say, "I like the idea of PCs being protected from the cold and wet, but the spell appears to be rigid, and I don't think a rigid invisible floor provides a good mental image (and it raises too many questions about the structure's balance). Therefore: it's a roof and walls, not a floor. Bring tarps to sleep on if you want to get dry. But I won't hassle you about sleeping on convex surfaces or the walls not quite reaching the floor--I'll treat it as an occluded sphere in practice. The walls go down until they hit the floor, and if you cast it while floating in wildspace it's a complete sphere." If players felt strongly that it should be the other way I would shrug and say, "Okay, fine. If you think it's cooler that way, I'm down with that."

Quote from: Hemlock;1065319In 2nd edition, it basically just created a hut. It protected against attacks to the same extent a regular wooden hut would protect against attacks.

I see nothing in the 5E spell text to indicate that the 5E version is any different. Unlike Wall of Force, there is no "immune to all damage" clause. It appears to just create a construct out of magical force, like Bigby's Hand, but one which you can go inside of and rest in and be comfortable--but there's no reason to think it cannot be destroyed as easily as a regular hut. Against determined attackers, at most it should buy you some time to wake up and get ready (or flee) before monsters tear the walls down.

It's not Leomund's Tiny Invulnerable Fortress.

Does it have a floor? It doesn't matter much, but as a DM I'm inclined to say, "I like the idea of PCs being protected from the cold and wet, but the spell appears to be rigid, and I don't think a rigid invisible floor provides a good mental image (and it raises too many questions about the structure's balance). Therefore: it's a roof and walls, not a floor. Bring tarps to sleep on if you want to get dry. But I won't hassle you about sleeping on convex surfaces or the walls not quite reaching the floor--I'll treat it as an occluded sphere in practice. The walls go down until they hit the floor, and if you cast it while floating in wildspace it's a complete sphere." If players felt strongly that it should be the other way I would shrug and say, "Okay, fine. If you think it's cooler that way, I'm down with that."

It was used a lot in my last campaign, and I ran it as you describe. Certainly no floor - there is zero indication of a floor in the spell description - and unlike Wall of Force it was not invulnerable. I used Athletics check opposed to caster Arcana for enemies trying to force their way in. This did get some grumbling from players used to 3e caster supremacy.

Quote from: tenbones;1065315So, using the Cliff Test - if the cliff fell out from under the person in the tent... one could say "You drop into freefall with the rocky debris... your Leomunds Tiny Hut dissipates the moment you leave it."

Easy peasy.

Yeah.  It's static.  It doesn't move.  It says so in the description.  Someone drops the cliff (somehow, Stone to Mud comes to mind...) and you die.  Cuz you fell out of the 'tent'.  What's the big problem here?