Quote from: Spike;1067671I think its a fairly simple call that Fabricate simply doesn't work on magically conjured materials. I'm sure if I wanted to sit down with the spell list I could work out some really fancy sounding metaphysical leagalese that would explain exactly why such combinations shouldn't work, but that might risk accidentally wrecking other, more acceptable synergies...

however, as I'm not really familiar with 5E yet, I had to look up Wall of Iron in the PHB... and couldn't find it. But Wall of Stone, which I recall as working more or less identically in previous editons (except for being, you know, Stone...) has a modest duration in 5E. Assuming I can find WoI in, I dunno, Volo's or something (seriously, 'Players Companion' may sound boring, but i never have to wonder what's in the book...so no learning curve for grabbing the right book... christ, I'm getting old...), I'm going to assume that it too is not a permanent hunk of iron cluttering the landscape.

So, Fabricate away. You've got about two hours before the Lynch Mob of angry weapon merchants and npc adventurers start forming.

1: er... 5e Fabricate doesn't quite work that way? It specifically states you can not fabricate items that need finer degree of crafting. gems, weapons, jewelry, etc unless the caster has the attendant tool profs.

2: Right. No wall of Iron spell. So far. Xanithar'd Guide did add in Wall of Water, Wall of Sand  and Wall of Light. So far all the "Wall" spells have a duration of 10 minutes except for Wall of Fire.

3: The fabricate mage still has to acquire the materials and have the appropriate skills. Otherwise their "goods" may be more likely laughed at. BUT. This could be an interesting way for a monster race to aquire basic weapons. Hooking up with a fabricate crazed mage.

X: And bemusingly fabricate actually ended up being a brilliant ploy an NPC used. He produced alot of swords and equipment for an army that was going to war with a neighboring country the mage was allied with. The army sallies fourth confident of a win as they are better armed by far. Expecting a massacre. And the mage drops essentially a wide area Dispell on them. And all the weapons and gear unraveled into their component parts. The enemy routed and the mage presented things such that it appeared he had blanketed the area with some sort of disintegrate spell so they never knew what really happened.

And one player I was in a campaign with had a habit of having his wizard cast dispell on equipment bought. Apparently because one of his characters had been wearing fabricated gear and it popped when he was hit with a dispell. Which was where I got the idea for the mage above. Thanks Haas!

Quote from: spon;1065261Basically, the spell is designed to let the PCs get a long (8hr) rest without being disturbed by wandering monsters. That's it. Don't worry about the details. It's a 5th Ed cludge to simplify things. If you don't like things to be simplified in that way, just ban the spell. It's really not worth worrying about how the details actually work in your world because it's not designed to be taken apart and studied in any depth whatsoever. It might as well just say, "When the wizard casts this spell the party gets a long rest. 8 hours pass without wandering monster checks."

100% this. Leomund's tiny hut - and rope trick - in 5e are quite broken. If you want any semblance of challenge or resouce attrition, best to remove them from your game.

Quote from: Omega;1068166And one player I was in a campaign with had a habit of having his wizard cast dispell on equipment bought. Apparently because one of his characters had been wearing fabricated gear and it popped when he was hit with a dispell. Which was where I got the idea for the mage above. Thanks Haas!

The spell is instantaneous duration, so there is no spell left on the item fabricated to dispel. Dispel magic also doesn't make you pop back to the last place you teleported from, and doesn't negate damage from an instantaneous fireball cast rounds before, either.

Quote from: rawma;1068175The spell is instantaneous duration, so there is no spell left on the item fabricated to dispel. Dispel magic also doesn't make you pop back to the last place you teleported from, and doesn't negate damage from an instantaneous fireball cast rounds before, either.

I believe in the example the Dispel works on the Conjured 'Wall of Iron' that is THEN Fabricated into weapons, which is currently making rounds as a 'free money hack' for D&D, though one that seems to be 'previous editions only' at the moment.

He's not dispelling the fabrications (which, even if it worked, would only result in holding chunks of unworked iron, not 'disintigrations'), he's dispelling the Wall of Iron that was Fabricated.


Of course, as discussed, 5E appears to lack Wall of Iron, and even if it had it, its now got a duration measured in Turns, not permanent, which solves any number of shenanigans.... to include that idiot-ball tactic the Gaming Den brought here (five years ago?) of having a Demon fill the dungeon up with Walls of Ice rather than actually fighting the party, at least in part.

Quote from: rawma;1068175The spell is instantaneous duration, so there is no spell left on the item fabricated to dispel. Dispel magic also doesn't make you pop back to the last place you teleported from, and doesn't negate damage from an instantaneous fireball cast rounds before, either.

The DM was running such that something made with magic could be un-made with a high enough dispell. We were all ok with that.

eh. Guess I was wrong.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1067489Officially, it was someone making some comments against religion or being religious or something (Gronan's wife is an... Episcopalian I think?... minister). The actual statement seemed entirely too much of an random offhand statement for it to have been the whole of it. He clearly hadn't been perfectly happy here for a while. I saw him and Chirine Ba Kal over on another site (which I think they both abandoned for Chirine's personal site soon after) and they both talked about, 'actually talking about gaming again.' Read into that what you will.

He also was in denial that SJWs and political correctness were creeping into RPGs. He is not the only one I have seen with that sort of "its not real" mindset.

Quote from: Psikerlord;1068171100% this. Leomund's tiny hut - and rope trick - in 5e are quite broken. If you want any semblance of challenge or resouce attrition, best to remove them from your game.

It really is the best solution if those campaign elements are desired. Just quoting so this people don't forget that it's a kludge made to wave away an older element of play. If you want that element, don't use the kludge.

It isnt even a kludge. If you poke through 5e you see alot of utterly ham-handed attempts to "fix" things the designers think the players think is boring. Usually by just adding "invincible" to whatever. Long rest? Cant break it. Rope Trick? Cant detect it or fire into it, Tiny Hut? Tell Tiamat to go twiddle her thumbs while we get a nap. And so on.

Quote from: Omega;1068250It isnt even a kludge. If you poke through 5e you see alot of utterly ham-handed attempts to "fix" things the designers think the players think is boring. Usually by just adding "invincible" to whatever. Long rest? Cant break it. Rope Trick? Cant detect it or fire into it, Tiny Hut? Tell Tiamat to go twiddle her thumbs while we get a nap. And so on.

Um.  Hate to break it to ya, but...  It doesn't really matter how much you rest, but Tiamat is going to do a number on the characters.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1068254Um.  Hate to break it to ya, but...  It doesn't really matter how much you rest, but Tiamat is going to do a number on the characters.

When the hut ends. Sure. Before that? Unless she dispells it or undermines it. No.

Is it the most brilliant thing to do when facing a goddess? Probably not.

Quote from: Omega;1068264When the hut ends. Sure. Before that? Unless she dispells it or undermines it. No.

Is it the most brilliant thing to do when facing a goddess? Probably not.

Depends on how much nova it recharges for your party. A few paladins almost out of smite? Probably the best choice is to refresh the nova.

(Yeah, I thought the Short/Long Rest Sage Advice ruling - requiring a 1+ hour, or 8+ hours, combat to break your rest -- was profoundly stupid. I immediately ignored it. There is a lot of WotC-isms worth ignoring, both from RAW text and RAI Sage Advice.)

Quote from: Opaopajr;1068311Depends on how much nova it recharges for your party. A few paladins almost out of smite? Probably the best choice is to refresh the nova.

(Yeah, I thought the Short/Long Rest Sage Advice ruling - requiring a 1+ hour, or 8+ hours, combat to break your rest -- was profoundly stupid. I immediately ignored it. There is a lot of WotC-isms worth ignoring, both from RAW text and RAI Sage Advice.)

I ignored that too. It just made no sense. Any interruption to a Long Rest in my games cancels it, if it's combat. If it's just taking a walk or something, then sure, you can do it.

In pre-3e editions rest varied depending on the edition.
In BX you just needed rest to allow you to refresh or change your spell loadout. Casters still had to spend an hour memorising their spells. Each full day of rest healed 1d3 damage. Any interruption meant no healing for that day.
But more importantly during a dungeoncrawl the party had to take a 10 minute breather for every 50 minutes of exploration or suffer a -1 to to hit and damage rolls till they did.
In 2e had the same caster rest requirements as AD&D, get some sleep, in the morning do any refreshing. And spells took longer based on their level. 10 minutes per spell level per spell. A Caster needing to refresh their whole array could take a long long time! 340 minutes for a level 10 mage. 1620 minutes for a level 20. That is 27 hours.
Normal rest which allowed for walking and riding, healed 1 hp per day of rest, 3 if the character stayed bedridden. +CON bonus if a whole week bedridden 21+CON bonus.
Did not see at a glance anything on needing to rest regularly during dungeon crawls though.

Quote from: Omega;1068250It isnt even a kludge. If you poke through 5e you see alot of utterly ham-handed attempts to "fix" things the designers think the players think is boring. Usually by just adding "invincible" to whatever. Long rest? Cant break it

Of course you can.

Quote. Rope Trick? Cant detect it or fire into it, Tiny Hut? Tell Tiamat to go twiddle her thumbs while we get a nap. And so on.

Ten minutes to cast it.  

It's sounding like you don't know the rules you're bashing very well.