I run D&D 5e games, and one of the spells where the vagueness of the rules actually haunts it is with the spell Leomund's Tiny Hut. There are so many circumstances that it can take place in that it inevitably leaves the DM scratching his head about how to deal with it.

For example, for a long time I wondered if it had a -bottom-, and apparently it does, per a clarification by Crawford. Okay, accepted. But is the Hut "fixed" to a point, or is it just laying on the ground? Do the PC's who are inside the Hut when it is cast get supported by the Hut's force, or is it only because it's flat against the ground that they don't fall out from under it?

Let's pose a scenario: the party wizard casts Leomund's Tiny Hut at the edge of a cliff. The party goes to sleep. The cliff then collapses.

What happens?

Does the Tiny Hut fall like any other object? Does it just float, fixed in place forever? Does it float and support the party members inside, like a small ship? Or does it float and let the party members fall through it to their doom, since it lets objects and creatures pass out of it?

What if you cast it in outer space? The Hut says that the atmosphere is comfortable and dry, but does it CREATE atmosphere? If there's poison gas outside, does it go inside too? If you light a fire inside the hut, does the fire create smoke or is the air still magically "clean"? Aaaaaaaah.

I've recently taken to looking at how things were done in prior editions to at lease see what spirit is animating various spells and abilities, since it can help cast light on how to handle it in 5e.

So for you guys that remember the older editions, what can you tell me about this?

In 1st edition, the spell was much less powerful. It was just the equivalent of a good shelter. It didn't protect against attacks and wasn't implied to have a floor. It basically just regulated the temperature some and provided shelter against wind and sun. (Although interestingly, rope trick which was 2nd level was roughly just as powerful as the current version.)

QuoteLeomund's Tiny Hut (Alteration)
Level: 3          Components: V, S, M
Range: 0         Casting Time: 3 segments
Duration: 6 turns/level            Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: 10' diameter sphere

Explanation/Description: When this spell is cast, the magic-user causes an opaque sphere of force to come into being around his or her person, half of the sphere projecting above the ground or floor surface, the lower hemisphere passing through the surface. This field causes the interior of the sphere to maintain at 70' F. temperature in cold to 0" F., and heat up to 105" F. Cold below 0" lowers inside temperature on a 1 for 1 basis, heat above 105' raises the inside temperature likewise. The tiny hut will with- stand winds up to 50 m.p.h. without being harmed, but wind force greater than that will destroy it. The interior of the tiny hut is a hemisphere, and the spell caster can illuminate it dimly upon command, or extinguish the light as desired. Note that although the force field is opaque from positions outside, it is transparent from within. In no way will Leomund's Tiny Hut provide protection from missiles, weapons, spells, and the like. Up to 6 other man-sized creatures can fit into the field with its creator, and these others can freely pass in and out of the tiny hut without harming it, but if the spell caster removes himself from it, the spell will dissipate. The material component for this spell is a small crystal bead which will shatter when spell duration expires or the hut is otherwise dispelled.

Quote from: jhkim;1065039In 1st edition, the spell was much less powerful. It was just the equivalent of a good shelter. It didn't protect against attacks and wasn't implied to have a floor. It basically just regulated the temperature some and provided shelter against wind and sun. (Although interestingly, rope trick which was 2nd level was roughly just as powerful as the current version.)

Interestingly enough, using the 1e version of a tiny hut can be a great way to melt huge amounts of ice in a short time. If the hut moves with the caster (it is centered on him, right?), you could slowly use it to bore through glaciers.

No, it mentions the caster can leave the area (and it dissipates if he does).

And Rope Trick only lasted 20 minutes per level of the caster in 1e, so not really meant for resting.

Why are you worried about it?  Not being snarky: just decide what it does in your campaign and do that.  Unless you're running tournament games or your players are off playing tournament games, say "Guys, Leomund's Tiny Hut works this way..." and have done with.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1065031For example, for a long time I wondered if it had a -bottom-, and apparently it does, per a clarification by Crawford. Okay, accepted. But is the Hut "fixed" to a point, or is it just laying on the ground? Do the PC's who are inside the Hut when it is cast get supported by the Hut's force, or is it only because it's flat against the ground that they don't fall out from under it?

Let's pose a scenario: the party wizard casts Leomund's Tiny Hut at the edge of a cliff. The party goes to sleep. The cliff then collapses.
What happens?

Does the Tiny Hut fall like any other object? Does it just float, fixed in place forever? Does it float and support the party members inside, like a small ship? Or does it float and let the party members fall through it to their doom, since it lets objects and creatures pass out of it?

What if you cast it in outer space? The Hut says that the atmosphere is comfortable and dry, but does it CREATE atmosphere? If there's poison gas outside, does it go inside too? If you light a fire inside the hut, does the fire create smoke or is the air still magically "clean"? Aaaaaaaah.

1: It creates a hemisphere of force. A dome. No floor. Ignore half of what Crawford or Mearls says on rules questions. Because half the time they apparently dont even know what the hell they themselves wrote. It is immobile and you would fall out of it if the ground gives out or is cast on an unstable surface.

2-3:In older editions it was a sphere of force, also no floor. If you cast it while falling you'd fall right out of it since it is immobile. Same for the new version. You'd fall out of it.

4: It does not say it creates an atmosphere. Only that it is comfortable and dry. So I would say that it would protect you from the heat or cold of space. But not provide air. Same if you cast it underwater. It does not say it creates a bubble of air or displaces water so youd have a comfy water-filled dome and the water in it would be fresh. Or it does create a air. 50/50.

5: Treat it like a normal or closed container. Making a fire in it will fill it with smoke if the smoke doesnt just drift out. And if air cannot get in then guess what? Everyone suffocates no matter. Or it creates air and everyone is fine and any smoke is scrubbed, no gasses can get in, or are eliminated on entry.

X: Make a ruling that makes sense to you based on what makes sense from the description. And then stick to that.

If you say "Yes it has a floor AND creates/scrubs air" then stick to it and accept that the spell is more potent like that. Or say "No it does not create a floor. But does create/scrub the air." And then accept the spell has some functions but isnt as functional.

Or you could say it creates a sphere like the original and needs a surface as otherwise you fall out of it.

Same with Goodberry. The description says it creates "up to 10" berries. You can read that as "creates 1d10" berries, or that it can not create more than 10. Or you could revert it to the playtest in that you actually had to have berries, any sort, to cast the spell on and each berry provided only enough for one meal. Not a whole day. This is where WOTC ignored our feedback and made a spell overpowered. Tiny Hut was not in the playtest so cant say how it may have changed. If any.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1065045Why are you worried about it?  Not being snarky: just decide what it does in your campaign and do that.  Unless you're running tournament games or your players are off playing tournament games, say "Guys, Leomund's Tiny Hut works this way..." and have done with.

I'm fine with making changes, but I want to know how it's "supposed" to be before I start tinkering with something. Maybe there was a good reason it was set up how it was and I didn't know? Etc.

This is also one area where it affects the game a lot and can put the PCs in danger, so I don't want to just make changes that affect them for the worse all willy nilly.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1065065I'm fine with making changes, but I want to know how it's "supposed" to be before I start tinkering with something. Maybe there was a good reason it was set up how it was and I didn't know? Etc.

This is also one area where it affects the game a lot and can put the PCs in danger, so I don't want to just make changes that affect them for the worse all willy nilly.

Stop.  This sounds like such a good idea in your head, very plausible way to approach the game, etc.  Instead, pretend that you don't have the internet, and that the only way to get an answer from someone else is to write a letter with a self-addressed stamped envelope for the reply.  If something bugs you enough that you'd write that letter and pay for the return answer any probably wait six weeks for it, then go ahead and worry it to the bone.  Otherwise, take your best stab at how you think it is supposed to be and what the consequences for changing might be, and then rule on that.

You'll get a few wrong.  You'll get a few right.  The more you do it, the better your rate will be.  And you'll also learn that getting one wrong isn't the end of the world.

Agree with Steven.

Also if you want to run a viable game DO NOT LISTEN TO CRAWFORD. Seriously. He seems to fart out the worst possible answer to any query. Often he seems not to have read the stuff he comments on.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1065094Stop.  This sounds like such a good idea in your head, very plausible way to approach the game, etc.  Instead, pretend that you don't have the internet, and that the only way to get an answer from someone else is to write a letter with a self-addressed stamped envelope for the reply.  If something bugs you enough that you'd write that letter and pay for the return answer any probably wait six weeks for it, then go ahead and worry it to the bone.  Otherwise, take your best stab at how you think it is supposed to be and what the consequences for changing might be, and then rule on that.

You'll get a few wrong.  You'll get a few right.  The more you do it, the better your rate will be.  And you'll also learn that getting one wrong isn't the end of the world.

It's amazing you have to even say this, but it's true. When I first started playing D&D in junior high, I didn't even know Dragon magazine existed, or that you could ask anyone other than some high school kids how to adjudicate rules. And fuck those guys, they were mean to us anyway, so we literally made up everything. I threw out literally 20 spiral notebooks a few years ago when I moved, filled with hundreds if not close to a thousand pages of rules variants, monster stats, character classes, dungeon maps and write ups, adventures, NPCs, all sorts of crap. That was all written in a period of 2-3 years when I first started, 95% of it purely out of my own head. Now I see threads on various messageboards, much like this, asking for simple rules advice that my junior high self would decide in half a second, but is now deliberated upon ad infinitum by a bunch of educated professionals who rarely seem to play anymore. I'm not even calling anyone out, I do it myself, too...

I'm going to start taking my own advice and just channeling that inner 12 year old: do whatever makes your game the most fun.

Paradoxically such discussions are more useful--both as reader and participant--once you've developed the attitude that you don't need them.  I think this is because it means that your own style has then developed enough to filter through such content for ideas, without being unduly swayed by things that do not fit.

The spell says a dome; nothing about a floor or another hemisphere under the surface you're on. It's immobile, so if the ground disappears under it, it stays where it was cast and everything else falls from within it. (For a creature that cannot pass through it, they could stay perched on top of it, but at risk of sliding off if they move too far off center for whatever reason.) I don't think a liquid or a gas count as objects, so smoke would emerge from it and fresh air would enter as needed; but it would negate strong winds, precipitation or uncomfortable temperatures (anything categorized as weather).

Quote from: rawma;1065236The spell says a dome; nothing about a floor or another hemisphere under the surface you're on. It's immobile, so if the ground disappears under it, it stays where it was cast and everything else falls from within it. (For a creature that cannot pass through it, they could stay perched on top of it, but at risk of sliding off if they move too far off center for whatever reason.) I don't think a liquid or a gas count as objects, so smoke would emerge from it and fresh air would enter as needed; but it would negate strong winds, precipitation or uncomfortable temperatures (anything categorized as weather).

That's the thing. It says "hemisphere" in the range for some reason...

Good advice guys.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1065240That's the thing. It says "hemisphere" in the range for some reason...

Good advice guys.

exactly. A hemisphere. A dome. Essentially a dome-style tent. No floor.



And bemusingly in one of Crawford's Q&As he has also said that "No. It does not create a floor."

But...

That means that anything that can DIG can get into the thing. Hence why the original extended into the ground you were standing on.

Personally I reverted it back to being a sphere centered on the caster. So they need to be standing on some solid surface or they will fall right out of it.

Crawford said that, but he reversed himself later and said it did have a floor.