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When somebody mentions playing as a Drow, the first thing that comes to mind is a scimitar-wielding Ranger with a panther companion.

Has anybody ever tried playing a Drow PC or had a player request to play a Drow?  Did you accept, and if so how did you handle it?

Were they interested in playing an evil/traitorous PCs, or a social outcast from Underdark society?  Did most cases end up with a Salvatore clone?

Had someone wanting to play a Drow Paladin Drizzt knock-off once.

The answer is "No", with my only possible exceptions being either (1) a specific campaign circumstance that allows for it logically (as the PCs venture through the Underdark, for instance), OR (2) a specific Underdark-themed campaign.

I'm a big fan of letting people play just about whatever they want to; I often have really weird stuff in my parties, whether it be a cast that looks like it's from Talislanta or just a few one-off freaks.

That being said, most requests for Drow PCs have been varieties of Drizzt clone or backstabbing psychopaths, and I've had little luck with them meshing with the rest of the party. So, despite the fact that I'm generally very permissible (going so far as to make new racial classes in BD&D if someone REALLY wants to be something strange), I'm similarly of a mind to Benoist with Drow, in particular.

In the late 90s, when the Complete Drow handbook came out, I gave it a whirl playing a female drow fighter who worshipped the female good deity (can't recall her name off hand).  I don't recall anything about the adventure, so take it for what it's worth.

It is entirely possible that someone, somewhere actually once played an awesome drow PC. It did not happen at my game table, though; all I get is lame Drizzt wannabes, psychos or fanservice of the lesbian stripper ninja sort.

My first instinct is to just say no. But I'll give the player a chance to persuade me.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;578846In the late 90s, when the Complete Drow handbook came out, I gave it a whirl playing a female drow fighter who worshipped the female good deity (can't recall her name off hand).  I don't recall anything about the adventure, so take it for what it's worth.

Is it Forgotten Realms?  If so, you might be talking about Eilestraee.  I have strong suspicions that the deity was created for good Drow PC concepts.  That, and fanservice.

Just wondering about the previous examples, but were the guys who wanted to play Drizz't clones teenagers?  I ask because Drizz't had a huge teenage fanbase back in the day.

Quote from: The Butcher;578856It is entirely possible that someone, somewhere actually once played an awesome drow PC. It did not happen at my game table, though; all I get is lame Drizzt wannabes, psychos or fanservice of the lesbian stripper ninja sort.

My first instinct is to just say no. But I'll give the player a chance to persuade me.

It's possible, but the stigma of Drizz't clones and lesbian ninjas counts against it.

In my own group, I had a Drow Sorcerer.  He was evil, but he got along well with the party and didn't engage in Stupid Evil shenanigans.  No Drizz't fanboys or PCs serving as wank fantasies.  I must be one of the lucky ones.

I allowed a Drow fighter to join the party as a prisoner during an underdark jaunt that the group went through.  He started off as a normal drow opponent that they'd captured and were forcing to serve as their guide, but one of the players who was dissatisfied with his current character came to me on the side and suggested a good line to keep him in the party, so I gave him the basic stats and let him go ahead and keep him.

The basic idea was that he'd fallen in love on sight with the elven cleric npc (I think I was going through that sort of phase at the time where you agree that elves have that sort of soul attachment thing they do) and decided to drop everything he'd ever known to pursue a relationship with her.  

He wasn't a drizzt clone, just a single weapon/shield light armor mobility fighter, and he made a lot of decisions that were based on being totally in love with the cleric (who, based on the premise, felt the same way about him) and it made for a lot of fun roleplaying with the other 2 elven PC's (one was a Ranger and the other was a Winter (or Steel) Elf Cavalier) as they tried to convince the Cleric that she shouldn't throw in with this evil dark skinned guy.

Eventually he wound up getting stepped on by a frost giant later in the campaign and the player was sad.  He was fun for a bit, though.

Maybe in an underdark type game.

Personally I have nothing against "monsters" as PCs, I'm just really suspicious of the people who want to play monsters as PCs, if that makes any sense.

I played around a bit with people's expectations of Drizz't clones once, with copious help from the GM.

My PC was a Drow Prince, exiled from his homeland to the surface world with nothing but the clothes on his back.  The PCs caught him stealing food from their camp, and since he was utterly, completely harmless, they couldn't bring themselves to execute him on the spot.  He eventually became part of the party in a Dr. Smith kind of way - sarcastic, condescending, and vamping wicked for the camera yet when the chips were down, he had the party's back. He was a Fgh/Sorc with Two-Weapon Fighting and at one point I bought and trained a half-wolf as a wardog just to troll for the Drizz't comparisons.

Eventually the party had levelled up significantly and trusted their token black elf enough that the inevitable "Hey, let's go get Sealbhach's kingdom back for him! Then we'll have a Drow ally in the Underdark!" adventure came up.

Long story short, older sister successfully overthrown, at which point Sealbhach has the whole party clapped in chains while he begins executing loyalists of the old regime.  Once the initial purges are over, he secretly releases them near the surface with a warning never to come back.  After all, he says, it'll take me a century or more to consolidate my power; you and all your kin will be long dead before I'm a threat to your little kingdom.  Take your freedom as a reward for your service and get out.

Quote from: Piestrio;578863Maybe in an underdark type game.

Personally I have nothing against "monsters" as PCs, I'm just really suspicious of the people who want to play monsters as PCs, if that makes any sense.

Your signature's strangely appropriate to the topic! :)

Quote from: Piestrio;578863Personally I have nothing against "monsters" as PCs, I'm just really suspicious of the people who want to play monsters as PCs, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, this.

There is a certain type of Player who delights in pissing everyone else off at the table during a game and saying that they are only playing to race (like Kender). So I'm not afraid to tell someone "no" and only let certain Players play certain races because they have demonstrated that they won't be a douchebag with the character.

Drow are right there on the borderline.

Quote from: Libertad;578869Your signature's strangely appropriate to the topic! :)

Heh, it's not that I think they're bad people it's just that every time I've seen it come up its from a desire to be "KEWL" and overly character focused. Two red flags that tell me we probably won't have fun at the same table.

Had two Drow in games I've run ever and played a Drow once on request (I'm a small fan of Salvatore but Drizzt isn't the kind of character I like-see too perfect-). One guy might as well have been a human because he didn't show any of the traits that Drow are supposed to have and cared nothing about any hooks I set up related to his heritage. Second guy was a "good Drow" runaway in the same style as Drizzt except without the rangering dual scimitars. He played so ridiculously the whole game ended up turning into a comedy (which I refer to as "The Lament of Oog the Barbarian").

I was asked to play it once because the GM wanted to inject some "intrigue" into the game so he thought that I'd put an interesting spin on it. However I am not a team by myself and despite my evil little dealings the rest of the team were hopelessly clueless when it came to anything more complicated than "go there kill that".

Quote from: The Butcher;578856It is entirely possible that someone, somewhere actually once played an awesome drow PC. It did not happen at my game table, though; all I get is lame Drizzt wannabes, psychos or fanservice of the lesbian stripper ninja sort.

My first instinct is to just say no. But I'll give the player a chance to persuade me.

The experience at my table was more the lesbian stripper ninja sort.  But assuming you like the player, I suggest giving them a chance.  Worst case, after a few sessions you can explain why it isn't working and develop with the player an 'exit strategy' for their current character.  They might really enjoy it if they're encouraged to turn on the party and get killed.

I have never, in all my years, encountered a drow PC, much less a Drizzt clone. I was playing AD&D2e in the early-to-mid nineties, and it never happened in my group.

My longest lived character in 3e was a Drow Sword Dancer. It's basically a F/C with a prestige class that is female only that allows for multiple "dancing swords" fighting along side you. As for a charop choice? It's terrible but she was alot of fun in a Joan of Arc kind of way. She was creating Ellistraes (sp) religion in a setting where all other Drow were evil, fun times.

I too experienced the  scimitar weilding drow requests back in the early 90s. My answer always depended on the setting. Since I ran ravenloft mostly I made clear to the player that he could do it (since a droaw getting sucked into ravenloft makes sense) but that being a drow would create lots of problems for him and the party in terms of native reactions to the character.

I never had any player choose to play a Drow in any of my sessions or campaigns. I do use them for NPCs though, the last time being around 2007 for an Eberron Campaign. I never hitched a wagon to the Drow are evil elves thing, and don't use the Drow specific magic as listed in FF, although I have played them as neutral or hostile.

I like to think of them more as subterranean elves than anything else, and never read the books so am pretty clueless when it comes to "Canon".

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;578994I too experienced the  scimitar weilding drow requests back in the early 90s. My answer always depended on the setting. Since I ran ravenloft mostly I made clear to the player that he could do it (since a droaw getting sucked into ravenloft makes sense) but that being a drow would create lots of problems for him and the party in terms of native reactions to the character.

It's Ravenloft, man.  Even being a High Elf or Gnome is enough to start up a peasant mob in lots of realms.

Quote from: Piestrio;578863Maybe in an underdark type game.

Personally I have nothing against "monsters" as PCs, I'm just really suspicious of the people who want to play monsters as PCs, if that makes any sense.

I got an email response to a local enquiry for players not too long ago.  The first question they had was "Do you allow Drow?"  And my first thought was "Not any more!"  :)

If a player wants to discuss their non-Drizzt, non-psycho Drow concept before the game, I would probably allow it.  I might go a bit farther and strip out all or almost all of the inherent magical stuff, though.  This applies to any species, not just Drow.  Character classes have enough whiz-bang stuff, and not having the standard 'monster' stuff is a good reason to abandon one's society and set off on adventures.  On a meta-game level, those things are to make monsters challenging for the players, not add additional p0wERz for player character races.

I think that the last time I saw anyone play a drow in any game I had anything to do with, I was 14.

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Quote from: Libertad;578838When somebody mentions playing as a Drow, the first thing that comes to mind is a scimitar-wielding Ranger with a panther companion.

Has anybody ever tried playing a Drow PC or had a player request to play a Drow?  Did you accept, and if so how did you handle it?

Were they interested in playing an evil/traitorous PCs, or a social outcast from Underdark society?  Did most cases end up with a Salvatore clone?

We've had Drow PCs in games...both in a backstabby Underdark campaign and out and about in a world.

No attempt was ever made at a Drizzt clone.

Until I came to this site I had never even heard of Drizzt.... have to admit to not being a fan of shit novels and I stopped reading fantasy altogehter from about 1993 til a few years back when I was given the SoFaI books and discovered Scott Lynch and Joe Abercrombie.

I am sure we had Drow PC in a game though at some point, surely... I ran a all elf game where each PC was from a different elven group. They were created by the PCs then reetrofitted back into the world but I am trying to think if any of them were drow like...

For the folks that have been round here for a while AM used to post quite a lot about his 4e Drow based game where all the PCs were Drow. It sounded like a well constructed game despite its 4e credentials.
If someone wants real detail about how to incorporate Drow, and is stuck for their own ideas, then I reckon contacting AM woudl be a good move.

While there may be jerks that like drow, it's not for power-gamers.

In 3.x, a drow has the following racial adjustments:

- +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Chr, -2 Con
- Darkvision 120'
- Light Blindness (blinded for 1 round in sunlight, then dazzled = -1 to attack, spot, search)
- +2 on Listen, Search and Spot checks.
- An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
- Weapon Proficiency: A drow is automatically proficient with the hand crossbow, the rapier, and the short sword.
- SR 11 + Class Level
- Immune to sleep
- +2 on Saving Throws versus Enchantments
- +2 on Will Saves against spells or spell-like abilities
- Spell Like Abilities 1/day: dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire
- Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, Undercommon.
+2 Level Adjustment

That means that a 1st level drow anything is treated as a 3rd level character.

Most of what they get is available to any other elf variant (including high elf) with an extra 2 class levels to play with.  But while people think drow are cool, they really aren't particularly POWERFUL.  

The weapon proficiencies they get are all 'free' with one level of rogue.  The bonus to Intelligence and Charisma might be good if you're a Wizard or Sorcerer, but there's already a gray elf (+2 Int) and that's just core - there is basically an elf in every flavor, most of which lack the Level Adjustment.  And while a +2 in your primary casting stat is nice, even combined with the Spell Resistance, it doesn't justify being two levels behind on spell acquisition.  

Take a 5th level anything and compare it against a 3rd level drow of the same class, all else being equal, and you're going to see the higher level character come out on top time and time again.  

So recognize that munchkins don't like drow (not unless they get the LA for free and/or can get rid of the Light Blindness) and that while there are some psychos that like them, most of the people that actually want to play one are doing it for flavor reasons.

They actually like the idea of being from an evil, narcissistic, depraved culture - either in opposition to it or with plans to eventually take power within that society.  

Drow are usually wanted because they make being a 'conflicted' hero or 'anti-hero' pretty easy to do - the kinds of DMs that come down hard on a cleric for using a longbow often give 'evil races' a pass for doing things that they wouldn't allow or expect a dwarf or gnome to do.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;579451While there may be jerks that like drow, it's not for power-gamers.

I think there was no LA in AD&D 2e, and they still got the spell-like abilities in addition to the usual elf perks (immune to sleep, resist charm etc.) which I recall made them a munchkin favorite at some tables I played back in the day.

Of course, there was some overlap between powergaming and attention-whoring at those tables, so that could be it.

Quote from: The Butcher;579472I think there was no LA in AD&D 2e, and they still got the spell-like abilities in addition to the usual elf perks (immune to sleep, resist charm etc.) which I recall made them a munchkin favorite at some tables I played back in the day.

Of course, there was some overlap between powergaming and attention-whoring at those tables, so that could be it.

I remember hearing how 1st Edition's Unearthed Arcana book allowed for the creation of Drow PCs, along with Derro and Half-Ogres.  Several options in the book, including the aforementioned races and the Barbarian and Cavalier classes, and Weapon Specialization, were very powerful choices.

Unearthed Arcana introduced a lot of new rules and clarification, but it was also derided for operating on a higher level of power out of balance with the standard Player's Handbook.

Probably one of several reasons that the idea of Drow PCs get a bad rap.

Quote from: Libertad;579551Probably one of several reasons that the idea of Drow PCs get a bad rap.

I'm pretty sure its 99.8% Drzzt.

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Man, if I was going to swipe a character to ape from Salvatore's shitty books, Drizzt would not be the dark elf of choice. Not when the kooky Jarlaxle is available.

I still remember reading those in high school and rooting for Entreri to finally murder that perfect-beautiful-genius-asshole Drizzt.

The book Servant of the Shard wasn't gawd-awful, mainly because it ignored Captain Super-elf and focused on Jarlaxle and Entreri.

Playing both of them wouldn't likely make you a ton of friends at the table either, but still, less obnoxious by a considerable amount.

Quote from: Libertad;578838Has anybody ever tried playing a Drow PC or had a player request to play a Drow?

thankfully, no.

I've had people who wanted to play Drow, and I have played one (high level Fighter/MU, had a bastard sword and hand crossbows, no Dizzy clone was he.) In general, If they play the character as their own--I allow it (and the setting has Drow.) If its just like X? No. I turn them down. I do know how to say no to players.

Yeah, in my experience, those people who wanted to play a drow made a concentrated effort to avoid a Drizzt clone.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;580102Yeah, in my experience, those people who wanted to play a drow made a concentrated effort to avoid a Drizzt clone.

I'd wager I've seen more Legolas clones over the years than Drizzt clones, personally.

Quote from: Libertad;578838When somebody mentions playing as a Drow, the first thing that comes to mind is a scimitar-wielding Ranger with a panther companion.

No, it's the first thing that comes to your mind.

QuoteHas anybody ever tried playing a Drow PC or had a player request to play a Drow?  Did you accept, and if so how did you handle it?

In the groups that I've DMed or played in, NPCs and monsters were often recruited into the group (with mixed degrees of success). If a regular PC was killed or otherwise out of action, a player usually had the option of playing one of these characters, subject to the DM's approval.

When we played D3: Vault of the Drow, the party managed to recruit several disaffected Drow and Half-Drow, including a Neutral Good dark elf the party had saved from being sacrificed to Lolth. These are all described in the module, so anyone who thinks Salvatore did anything new is speaking from ignorance.

QuoteWere they interested in playing an evil/traitorous PCs, or a social outcast from Underdark society?  Did most cases end up with a Salvatore clone?

Nilonim (the dissident Drow) and several of his followers joined the group and became valued members not only in the underworld, but in later adventures too. We ended up rolling stats and giving names to these characters, but none was a Drizzit clone. The closest was a ranger who used a crossbow and a pair of short swords. The one I rolled up was a female fighter who was a specialist with hand crossbows, which she wielded two at a time like Hopalong Cassidy. IIRC, there were six Drow total including one cleric, one fighter/magic-user (Nilonim), one fighter (Isla, the one I rolled up), one cavalier (rode a giant lizard), the ranger and another fighter (double-specialist with daggers); and the same number of half-Drow (thieves, fighter/thieves and assassins). Most didn't live long enough to really make an impression, aside from Isla and the Lizard Knight, whose name escapes me. Angst wasn't part of the makeup of any of our characters, so no there wasn't a Drizzit-type among them.

Nearly wiped out the party with a Drow Vampiress.

Honestly, I always liked Mystara's Shadow Elves better.

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