Hello,

I'd like to know with all the D&D derivatives available what is truly worth looking into? Which ones actually have meaning improvements and / or do things differently enough that it's worth a look.

Please share your object thoughts and personal views on the matter it's much appreciated!!!

Old school essentials is a very good cleaned up version of B/X that is very easy to learn and play.

Lamentations of the Flame Princess is another very good D&D retroclone with a nice and simple skill system

Both of those games are great

Savage Worlds Pathfinder.

It is D&D on the Savage Worlds chassis. There is none of the Pathfinder woke-shit in it. It's D&D translated to Savage Worlds.

Other recommendations -

Fantasy Craft - It's dense, it's a toolkit. It's awesome. If you're a veteran GM or a dedicated GM that wants strong customization options for their D&D-fantasy game, this is an excellent choice. It's a reimagined 3.x rebuilt from the ground up. It does *everything* differently. And it's scalable and better balanced (if that is a thing for you).

If by "D&D" you mean 5e - I'd also recommend 1e and 2e D&D. Both excellent editions.

Dungeon Crawl Classics - Old School almost BESM-ish. It's very clean and solid if you wanna do some dungeoncrawling (or campaigning). Definitely worth a look.

And if you wanna get pseudo-weird - I always recommend Talislanta. It's FREE (go to the Talislanta website and download the edition of your choice: I recommend ANY of them, but 4e is the most popular.) If you like it - go buy the prequel edition (disclaimer: I helped write) and go hog wild. It comes in a D&D 5e version too. I say pseudo-weird because Talislanta is not very traditional D&D in its races etc. But it's played very traditionally. The setting is exotic and more sword-and-sorcery, but you do all the things you do in a normal D&D game. Go adventure, kill shit, plumb the depths of ancients ruins and tombs, get gold and magic items.

Do you wish to hew close to old school D&D, or play something that spins off the path a little?

Check out Castles & Crusades.  Feels a lot like 1E, but smoother.

Quote from: Jam The MF on July 05, 2021, 05:43:11 PM
Do you wish to hew close to old school D&D, or play something that spins off the path a little?

Games that take the core of D&D and do different stuff with it ( add to/ remove, total reworks ect....)

Adventurer, Conqueror, King
Star Adventurer
Lion & Dragon
Arrows of Indra

The second is D&D in spaaaaaace! with enough differences as to not be the same (based of Lion & Dragon)

The rest are different takes on the mechanics, with their own settings and rules not found on vanilla D&D.

I have always been a fan of Labyrinth Lord.  It is a bit dated.  The system is Moldvay/Cook B/X D&D, so you'll have to deal with Descending Armor Class (or just convert).  My personal favorite is the Advanced Edition Companion, which gives you all the races and classes from the 1e Player's Handbook. 

Labyrinth Lord doesn't add much to the game, but it tightens up a lot of confusing rules.

I also really like Lion & Dragon. Though honestly I have not played it yet.  I like the slow power increases over the levels, yet each level brings a unique ability, that you roll for randomly. 

Oh, and it is modeled on historical medieval professions and magic. 

One game that I have played is Five Torches Deep.  I recently ran a mini campaign of four sessions.  The rules are a 5e framework.  For stats you roll 3d6 straight down the line and swap 2 if you are human.  If you want to be an elf, dwarf, or halfling you get certain stats set at 13c and roll 2d6+ 4 for the others.  I made everyone play a human.

There are four classes. Warrior, mage, thief, and zealot.  At third level you get to choose an archetype which gets you a special ability. 

Warriors can be: Barbarians, Fighters, rangers.
Thieves: Assassin, Bard (no spells, you're just a charming musician), and rogue (a standard thief type)
Mages: Wizard, Warlock, sorcerer
Zealot: Druid, cleric, paladin

The special abilities aren't overwhelming.  Paladins for example can choose Martial Weapon Proficiency.  Or they get an "oath" that helps them against evil creatures like undead and demons.

Sorcerers can do extra damage with fire (if they choose that ability), or get armored skin, etc. think Dragon hericage sorcerer from 5e, but weaker.

Everything is weaker.  Hit points are lower, and weapons do slightly more damage.  And there's a chart you roll when you get to 0hp. No "three death saves" like in 5e.  You might lose a limb, or some stat points. It is gritty.

Magic is limited.  There are only 5 spells for each level, and two types of spells: divine, and arcane.  A spell caster can cast a spell as much as they want, but they have to roll each time and beat a certain number.  If you fail the roll, you can't use that spell any more that day.  Also there is a spell fumble table and you could nuke your whole party if you are really unlucky. 

Monsters are very easy.  They have a system they call "monster math" with suggested hp, ac, attack bonuses and damge.  They give you a list of special powers monsters can have, and you can choose from it like a buffet.  Just plug in what you want. 

You can also convert mosters from other editions. 5e critters will need to be nerfed or they'll wipe out a party. I used B/X monsters and it worked out just fine. 

Thereis a random dungeon generator in the book thatbuses a rubick's cube.  I did not use it.

I also nerfed weapon damage since most of the opposition were humans who carried weapons. 

My players liked the game but said casters were too weak.  A level 1 caster gets 1 first-level spell.  Just like the old days.  Except you could cast it until you fizzled, and then you could fry your friends.  I house ruled that the spell fumble chart would only be used if you rolled a nat "1". 

I thought the game needed more spells and they should be able to be swapped out. 

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on July 05, 2021, 10:21:04 PM
I have always been a fan of Labyrinth Lord.  It is a bit dated.  The system is Moldvay/Cook B/X D&D, so you'll have to deal with Descending Armor Class (or just convert).  My personal favorite is the Advanced Edition Companion, which gives you all the races and classes from the 1e Player's Handbook. 

Labyrinth Lord doesn't add much to the game, but it tightens up a lot of confusing rules.

I have the exact opposite opinion of Labyrinth Lord. It's based on Moldvay/Cook/Marsh's B/X, which is extraordinarily tightly written. LL muddled all that up, with vague wordiness replacing concise precision.

That's why I stuck to B/X. Though I like Basic Fantasy. The fan community is great.

D&D 5th edition is kind of like real D&D if you don't think about it too much.   

Obligatory response from me:

Earthdawn!

Quote from: Blackthorne26 on July 05, 2021, 07:12:23 PMGames that take the core of D&D and do different stuff with it ( add to/ remove, total reworks ect....)

Here's two free RPGs that do exactly that.

MAZES & MINOTAURS
M&M is D&D via Hollywoodized Greek mythos (If you liked Clash of the Titans, 300, Jason & the Argonauts, etc and want to combine that with old school D&D, you will like M&M)
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/

VALKYRIES & VIKINGS
M&M, but for the Norse mythos
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/VIK.pdf


The "D&D derivative" that's caught my attention recently is MORK BORG - it's extreme grimdark fantasy with an evocative artpunk style.
https://morkborg.com/

The free content in support of the paid game is high quality:
https://morkborg.com/content/

The Hyperboria 3e is up on KS now.  I missed out getting their 2nd edition so not missing out on this one.
The first and second time it was released it was great and likely still is.
Might scratch that itch for you.

Quote from: Blackthorne26 on July 05, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Hello,

I'd like to know with all the D&D derivatives available what is truly worth looking into? Which ones actually have meaning improvements and / or do things differently enough that it's worth a look.

Please share your object thoughts and personal views on the matter it's much appreciated!!!

Between BECMI D&D, D&D 3ed (or, to be honest, Pathfinder), and D&D 5ed, I feel pretty well set for D&D fantasy options.   

If I want something that isn't D&D but inspired by it, I'd go with either Mutants & Masterminds 2ed (3ed is a bit better, but strays even more from D&D) or Godbound (because I want a version of Exalted that's still borked a dozen different ways and whose mechanics don't mesh with its themes, but at least it blows up quickly and can actually be played with just reference sheets instead of reference books).

I will say I skipped Lamentation of the Flame Princess as a system, but I tend to at least look at its scenarios and supplements for some good ideas.  Whichever system you end up going with, there's some pretty good stuff you can use in the catalog of LotFP.

Quote from: KingCheops on July 05, 2021, 11:38:52 PM
Obligatory response from me:

Earthdawn!

Earthdawn's magic system was great.   From the items that had elemental earth/fire/water/air woven into them to the blood magic to magic items that grow as you invest in them.   To this day any system I run will have some of those aspects "woven" into them