So the other shoe has finally fucking dropped. Here's Mike Mearls announcing what I've known for months and had to keep a lid on; what I had tried to hint at and a few of you got, but most did not. Yes, there will be a Basic D&D.
But its more than just that. It will be on a PDF. It will be FREE. And most importantly, it will be the true Core D&D. Not the PHB, not the DMG, not that 10000-feats version. No. The basic version will be the default version of the D&D game, the one that all adventure products will use for their baseline.
This is hugely significant. This is the victory of Old-school thinking over all else, and I don't mind if I take more than a little credit for the lobbying I have done to create and hold this vision as a Consultant.
You're all welcome.
It is also an incredibly bold move for Wizards to make. It means that in theory, all you'll ever need to play D&D will be, in the first few months, the Starter Set and the Basic Rules PDF. And after that, not even the Starter Set. So whatever you get, whatever you purchase or get into from Wizards will not be because they're holding a gun to your head. It will be because they'll be making great products (well, we hope!).
This is, with any luck, the beginning of the end for the whole "endless Splatbook-production-line model" of RPG thinking which only served to create an ever-shrinking mass of aging fanatics while alienating everyone else who didn't want to have to buy every single book.
Making Basic D&D the core D&D rules means that kids will be able to get into the game first, and then become customers of those adventures, expansions, settings or materials that they find exciting. It will serve the "amateur" gamer rather than the hardcore drooling fan, and that's a good thing.
So its time now to give Wizards its due. And to give the Pundit his due, particularly all the naysayers and those who made certain claims about me in the last few days. I win again.
And this time, so does every other D&D fan.
RPGPundit
Yes, you did. Thanks!
Please please please for the love of God give me some sort of POD option.
I caught on pretty quick.:D
Seriously it's beyond awesome I hope they do something like 2e or Pathfinder maybe 2-3 books a year for players and then settings, adventure paths and whatever else aimed to DM's that way I will still have money.
Urge to financially support 5e rising...
Quote from: Brad;753004Please please please for the love of God give me some sort of POD option.
Mearls already tweeted they are considering putting up the BASIC rules into a book (kind of similar to RC).
Quote from: Brad;753004Please please please for the love of God give me some sort of POD option.
Why? As a living document its going to be edited, futzed with, re-edited, added to, etc. quite a bit. Might as well give it a few years for it to settle in in its final form before wasting ink .
Yeah in no way will we be seeing in the months ahead whole threads devoted to
"Stupid players all you need is the free Basic D&D. Get your stupid endless Splatbook-production line 10000-feats version outta here"
:rolleyes:
Actually, the starter set still doesn't include character generation, comes with an adventure and pregens, sounds like a set like the 4e starter set minus character generation to me. So I don't retract anything, really: it is dumb not to include the character generation rules in the starter set, and that doesn't change my mind about this particular issue.
BUT. The Basic game being free as a PDF is a great thing, so the Starter Set can be completely ignored by the computer literate. That's great news, it's great for the fans, it's great for WotC, everybody wins. That's cool.
It'll be even better if the Basic game ends up in print itself, so we can get it and offer it to people instead of the Starter Set.
Yeah, about that... I might wait till someone else gives you a lotta credit for it. This whole "Look, I'm a great consultant"-routine is not loaded with dignity.
But great with a D&D a lot of people will probably dig.
The news of Basic D&D means I'll give it a look, because up to this point the product was not looking very palatable to me.
Now that WotC have the old-school flank covered, the online debate will shift to the other flank and the underlying math, tactical modules, and expanded PC customization. And since much of that material won't become evident until the DMG is published, expect a lot of skeptical speculation and warnings of worst-case scenarios in the meantime.
I actually can't fault them at all for keeping the basic rules online only. This isn't like the 80s, when it didn't really matter if you had all the most recent errata, and in fact hardly anyone ever did. Even with my Dragon subscription, I certainly didn't update my rules each time a clarification came out in Dragon.
However, in this digital age, everyone has easy access to all the info instantly. No more waiting a month for the next Dragon issue, and even then finding someone who had it. In the 80s you could easily get away with playing with older rules. Today? Much harder since the info is accessible and instant. So there's a legitimate reason to keep it a living document. IMO anyway.
Quote from: Haffrung;753025Now that WotC have the old-school flank covered, the online debate will shift to the other flank and the underlying math, tactical modules, and expanded PC customization. And since much of that material won't become evident until the DMG is published, expect a lot of skeptical speculation and warnings of worst-case scenarios in the meantime.
Probably but I do notice alot of the 4e people are finally lightening up on the complaining because even they are starting to see that WotC actually seems to be carrying through with what they were promising. It should be very doable I mean if FantasyCraft can pull it off why couldn't WotC?
Now it's not exactly how I would have done it or envisioned it but it seems very workable.
The most amazing thing happened today here in Germany.
Pegasus, the German publisher of Cthulhu and Shadowrun, "suddenly" decided to make the PDFs of the Cthulhu Player Guide (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/100301/HP-Lovecrafts-Cthulhu--Spielerhandbuch) and the Keeper Handbook (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/100304/HP-Lovecrafts-Cthulhu--Spielleiterhandbuch) available for free.
Uhrwerk, the German publisher of The One Ring, Hollow Earth Expedition, Space 1889 (and more) just posted to his Facebook account: "This is MADNESS!" (https://www.facebook.com/patric.goetz1/posts/10203976266995591)
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;753048The most amazing thing happened today here in Germany.
Pegasus, the German publisher of Cthulhu and Shadowrun, "suddenly" decided to make the PDFs of the Cthulhu Player Guide (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/100301/HP-Lovecrafts-Cthulhu--Spielerhandbuch) and the Keeper Handbook (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/100304/HP-Lovecrafts-Cthulhu--Spielleiterhandbuch) available for free.
Uhrwerk, the German publisher of The One Ring, Hollow Earth Expedition, Space 1889 (and more) just posted to his Facebook account: "This is MADNESS!" (https://www.facebook.com/patric.goetz1/posts/10203976266995591)
That's awesome. Are they the new versions?
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;753048The most amazing thing happened today here in Germany.
Pegasus, the German publisher of Cthulhu and Shadowrun, "suddenly" decided to make the PDFs of the Cthulhu Player Guide (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/100301/HP-Lovecrafts-Cthulhu--Spielerhandbuch) and the Keeper Handbook (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/100304/HP-Lovecrafts-Cthulhu--Spielleiterhandbuch) available for free.
Uhrwerk, the German publisher of The One Ring, Hollow Earth Expedition, Space 1889 (and more) just posted to his Facebook account: "This is MADNESS!" (https://www.facebook.com/patric.goetz1/posts/10203976266995591)
It's brilliant is what it is.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753031I actually can't fault them at all for keeping the basic rules online only. This isn't like the 80s, when it didn't really matter if you had all the most recent errata, and in fact hardly anyone ever did. Even with my Dragon subscription, I certainly didn't update my rules each time a clarification came out in Dragon.
However, in this digital age, everyone has easy access to all the info instantly. No more waiting a month for the next Dragon issue, and even then finding someone who had it. In the 80s you could easily get away with playing with older rules. Today? Much harder since the info is accessible and instant. So there's a legitimate reason to keep it a living document. IMO anyway.
I think this is a potentially poisonous mindset for RPGs. The idea that they need a constant stream of errata is borne out of online theorywank, not play. That's not to say that an RPG can't get something so wrong it deserves errata (see 4e Skill Challenges), but the idea that it needs endless official tinkering, and is somehow incomplete for the end user without it, is harmful.
Quote from: Bobloblah;753056I think this is a potentially poisonous mindset for RPGs. The idea that they need a constant stream of errata is borne out of online theorywank, not play. That's not to say that an RPG can't get something so wrong it deserves errata (see 4e Skill Challenges), but the idea that it needs endless official tinkering, and is somehow incomplete for the end user without it, is harmful.
I can only speak for myself, but personally? I couldn't care less about 95% of errata. Just go with the flow of the game and make a ruling if something odd creeps up.
Same here, but I think that mindset changed with the proliferation of regularly updated software. People view errata very differently now.
Quote from: Bobloblah;753056It's brilliant is what it is.
I think this is a potentially poisonous mindset for RPGs. The idea that they need a constant stream of errata is borne out of online theorywank, not play. That's not to say that an RPG can't get something so wrong it deserves errata (see 4e Skill Challenges), but the idea that it needs endless official tinkering, and is somehow incomplete for the end user without it, is harmful.
The errata thing was the major reason I quit 4e I just couldn't keep up with what people were saying were even issues if anything.
Quote from: Bobloblah;753061Same here, but I think that mindset changed with the proliferation of regularly updated software. People view errata very differently now.
I don't disagree. I blame the internet age
Quote from: Marleycat;753063The errata thing was the major reason I quit 4e I just couldn't keep up with what people were saying were even issues if anything.
4e is the poster child for that mindset run wild. I have little doubt WotC inculcated this deliberately as a way to drive subscriptions to the online tools.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753065I don't disagree. I blame the internet age
"The Internet" is an easy target, but I think it has far more specifically to do with the advent of commonly used software on personal computers. Software programs are the first broadly available products most of us have had access to that can receive (and benefit from) endless updates. This isn't even practicable or possible with most physical products.
If I were cynical I might have a hard time disagreeing. It might well have been a factor though. I mostly think it was shoddy quality control.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753031I actually can't fault them at all for keeping the basic rules online only. This isn't like the 80s, when it didn't really matter if you had all the most recent errata, and in fact hardly anyone ever did.
Why does it matter more now? If I'm playing at my table it's my game... unless it's really truly 'broken', which isn't likely, I can deal with issues as they come up.
Having an actual printed copy, or two, or three to toss casually around the table is going to trump any concerns I have about how up-to-the-minute accurate my copy of the rules is... and I'd probably have that going on my tablet anyway.
Also, I've played at a table where the GM was forever and constantly making minor tweaks to the rules... it was really annoying because none of them were responding to real issues in the game... it was just his being bored and wanting to play with the numbers.
Oh, and congrats to The Pundit for how happy he seems to be with himself.
Yeah, not to mention the fact that the issues at my table might be quite different (in actual play!) than what the designers or online spherical cow theorists might suppose.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;753011Why? As a living document its going to be edited, futzed with, re-edited, added to, etc. quite a bit. Might as well give it a few years for it to settle in in its final form before wasting ink .
Is it going to be a living document? As I understand it the first iteration would come out with the Starter Set and have the character generation and levelling rules, then when the PHB comes out the basic book will be updated to include content from the DMG and MM. There's absolutely no suggestion, from what I've seen, that it'll be further updated after that.
Quote from: Marleycat;753034It should be very doable I mean if FantasyCraft can pull it off why couldn't WotC?
Now it's not exactly how I would have done it or envisioned it but it seems very workable.
I'm happy enough with what I've seen from the standard game in the 5E playtests. But if the D&D devs provide even half as many levers, options, and variants as FantasyCraft, I'll be doing cartwheels. That truly is a toolbox game you can make your own.
Quote from: Bobloblah;753056I think this is a potentially poisonous mindset for RPGs. The idea that they need a constant stream of errata is borne out of online theorywank, not play. That’s not to say that an RPG can't get something so wrong it deserves errata (see 4e Skill Challenges), but the idea that it needs endless official tinkering, and is somehow incomplete for the end user without it, is harmful.
Hopefully the concept that there is no One True Way to play 5E will disarm a lot of that RAW wankery, where the system is BROKEN if three rounds of a level 2 spell Burning Hands has a 60 per cent chance of doing 10 per cent more damage than two rounds of a level 3 spell Flames Strike.
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;753048Uhrwerk, the German publisher of The One Ring, Hollow Earth Expedition, Space 1889 (and more) just posted to his Facebook account: "This is MADNESS!" (https://www.facebook.com/patric.goetz1/posts/10203976266995591)
Looks like the post got yanked (or the link got mangled) - care to paraphrase?
Quote from: Haffrung;753080I'm happy enough with what I've seen from the standard game in the 5E playtests. But if the D&D devs provide even half as many levers, options, and variants as FantasyCraft, I'll be doing cartwheels. That truly is a toolbox game you can make your own.
Hopefully the concept that there is no One True Way to play 5E will disarm a lot of that RAW wankery, where the system is BROKEN if three rounds of a level 2 spell Burning Hands has a 60 per cent chance of doing 10 per cent more damage than two rounds of a level 3 spell Flames Strike.
Wait - can you repeat that? I just picked up my calculator...
Quote from: RPGPundit;753000So the other shoe has finally fucking dropped. Here's Mike Mearls announcing what I've known for months and had to keep a lid on; what I had tried to hint at and a few of you got, but most did not. Yes, there will be a Basic D&D.
But its more than just that. It will be on a PDF. It will be FREE. And most importantly, it will be the true Core D&D. Not the PHB, not the DMG, not that 10000-feats version. No. The basic version will be the default version of the D&D game, the one that all adventure products will use for their baseline.
This is hugely significant. This is the victory of Old-school thinking over all else, and I don't mind if I take more than a little credit for the lobbying I have done to create and hold this vision as a Consultant.
You're all welcome.
It is also an incredibly bold move for Wizards to make. It means that in theory, all you'll ever need to play D&D will be, in the first few months, the Starter Set and the Basic Rules PDF. And after that, not even the Starter Set. So whatever you get, whatever you purchase or get into from Wizards will not be because they're holding a gun to your head. It will be because they'll be making great products (well, we hope!).
This is, with any luck, the beginning of the end for the whole "endless Splatbook-production-line model" of RPG thinking which only served to create an ever-shrinking mass of aging fanatics while alienating everyone else who didn't want to have to buy every single book.
Making Basic D&D the core D&D rules means that kids will be able to get into the game first, and then become customers of those adventures, expansions, settings or materials that they find exciting. It will serve the "amateur" gamer rather than the hardcore drooling fan, and that's a good thing.
So its time now to give Wizards its due. And to give the Pundit his due, particularly all the naysayers and those who made certain claims about me in the last few days. I win again.
And this time, so does every other D&D fan.
RPGPundit
A - fuckin - men to that.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;753011Why? As a living document its going to be edited, futzed with, re-edited, added to, etc. quite a bit. Might as well give it a few years for it to settle in in its final form before wasting ink .
Because some of us are Luddites and fucking hate reading PDFs. I print out every PDF I buy. True story.
Quote from: Brad;753102Because some of us are Luddites and fucking hate reading PDFs. I print out every PDF I buy. True story.
I have no issue with PDFs... but it's nice to also have a hardcopy, for a variety of reasons.
Also, I don't care much for having the internet at the table... because it just seems to invite the 'hey, lookit what this funny cat does!'... or the guy that plays Candycrush when it's not his turn.
Quote from: Simlasa;753108I have no issue with PDFs... but it's nice to also have a hardcopy, for a variety of reasons.
Also, I don't care much for having the internet at the table... because it just seems to invite the 'hey, lookit what this funny cat does!'... or the guy that plays Candycrush when it's not his turn.
I'm just waiting for this thread to devolve into "print vs. PDF" and being told I'm a narrow-minded bigot for preferring a wretched, environmentally unfriendly option.
I much prefer print over pdf. I can jot down notes, and flip though pages a whole lot faster than a pdf.
Quote from: Bobloblah;753056I think this is a potentially poisonous mindset for RPGs. The idea that they need a constant stream of errata is borne out of online theorywank, not play. That's not to say that an RPG can't get something so wrong it deserves errata (see 4e Skill Challenges), but the idea that it needs endless official tinkering, and is somehow incomplete for the end user without it, is harmful.
Yeah, I agree. I've seen 4e errataphilia lead to pointless table arguments where a player insists that eg the healing rules have changed, and I can't just rely on my memory of what they said, because who knows if they might not just have been errata'd?
Quote from: S'mon;753127Yeah, I agree. I've seen 4e errataphilia lead to pointless table arguments where a player insists that eg the healing rules have changed, and I can't just rely on my memory of what they said, because who knows if they might not just have been errata'd?
gives me nightmare flashbacks of Star Fleet Battles in the 90s...
Quote from: RPGPundit;753000The basic version will be the default version of the D&D game, the one that all adventure products will use for their baseline.
sweet:)
Quote from: Haffrung;753080Hopefully the concept that there is no One True Way to play 5E will disarm a lot of that RAW wankery, where the system is BROKEN if three rounds of a level 2 spell Burning Hands has a 60 per cent chance of doing 10 per cent more damage than two rounds of a level 3 spell Flames Strike.
I agree and hope you're right, but in your example one of those spells is pretty broken. Spell levels are an order of magnitude off from character levels.
Quote from: Brad;753117I'm just waiting for this thread to devolve into "print vs. PDF" and being told I'm a narrow-minded bigot for preferring a wretched, environmentally unfriendly option.
I drive a gas-guzzling SUV and keep books in the car at the same time. It's a double whammy!
Hopefully they hyperlink the crap out of the PDF or also build an SRD equivalent. One real strength of PF is the organisation of the online rules ref that supports the hard copy.
One thing I find a bit odd is that the people absolutely lambasting WOTC for not including chargen in the starter are suddenly thrilled to have a non print core rules PDF made available. Odd.
Hopefully the PDF is supported by some sort of POD offering with the disclaimer that this is a living document. WOTC can make a couple of bucks off each copy printed and so much the better if fanatics do it yearly to get all the latest errata included :-)
I don't understand the living document thing. Once the PHB goes to the press, why would they keep changing the basic game PDF. Won't that cause issues?
Quote from: Endless Flight;753153I don't understand the living document thing. Once the PHB goes to the press, why would they keep changing the basic game PDF. Won't that cause issues?
Honestly? My opinion is the reasons for a pdf instead of a hard copy has less to do with a living doc and more to do with costs of printing. After all, it's just the most basic core stuff in the pdf, right? That tells me that there won't be a whole lot of errata. Most errata is on the more complex rules, classes, races, spell workings, etc. Things you'll find in the big 3 books.
Quote from: Warthur;753081Looks like the post got yanked (or the link got mangled) - care to paraphrase?
That was the whole of it - the English words "This is MADNESS!", followed by a link to a German Cthulhu blog, with the two links to Drivethrough I posted.
Quote from: Bobloblah;753061Same here, but I think that mindset changed with the proliferation of regularly updated software. People view errata very differently now.
There was a major downside though to downloadable updates - it made it less expensive to ship less stable, buggy products to begin with.
Quote from: Endless Flight;753153I don't understand the living document thing. Once the PHB goes to the press, why would they keep changing the basic game PDF. Won't that cause issues?
They may not modify rules, but clarify the existing rules and also rewrite some uneven stuff. It is a very good direct marketing strategy to do that, if they tie it to a registration or mailing list.
Quote from: Lynn;753158There was a major downside though to downloadable updates - it made it less expensive to ship less stable, buggy products to begin with.
I've spent time working in the software industry, and I
completely agree. It's even worse when the same happens with a physical product (again, see 4e Skill Challenges).
Quote from: RPGPundit;753000SYes, there will be a Basic D&D.
But its more than just that. It will be on a PDF. It will be FREE. And most importantly, it will be the true Core D&D. ...omitted detail...
This is hugely significant. This is the victory of Old-school thinking over all else, and I don't mind if I take more than a little credit for the lobbying I have done to create and hold this vision as a Consultant.
You're all welcome.
It is also an incredibly bold move for Wizards to make.
Good call. ...and Thank You. It is the first good strategic move I've seen
WOTC make since
Hasbro bought them out. Not so bold, ...very much common sense though... getting the rules into the hands of your GMs.
I'm a dead tree guy. I'll take the free PDF, of course, however would not mind a printed hardback edition of the new D&D Basic rules as well, ...and quite willing to pay cash for that.
Maybe this is why they didn't print the Rules Cyclopedia.
A tip of the cap to the Pundit. I hope tonight's final smoke is particularly satisfying.
Quote from: Bobloblah;753061Same here, but I think that mindset changed with the proliferation of regularly updated software. People view errata very differently now.
And regularly updating software has done tremendous damage to video games (although admittedly for slightly different reasons).
It goes to the other point raised about software: the ability to update has somehow made it okay to release buggy or even non-functional software.
Quote from: Brad;753117I'm just waiting for this thread to devolve into "print vs. PDF" and being told I'm a narrow-minded bigot for preferring a wretched, environmentally unfriendly option.
If you like, I can call you names. But I really don't care how you use your own money and other resources because I'm not a weedy little patchouli-tainted Hitler.
Back on topic, I took a leap of faith and decided just to believe the Pundit when he said it was good. And now I am rewarded and will do so again in the future.
Quote from: Bobloblah;753230It goes to the other point raised about software: the ability to update has somehow made it okay to release buggy or even non-functional software.
No dude. That's not bugs. It's in
beta. Don't worry. They'll be releasing the Deluxe Gold version later in the year for only 20% more than what you paid for the beta version.
Quote from: Bobloblah;753230It goes to the other point raised about software: the ability to update has somehow made it okay to release buggy or even non-functional software.
Yep, anyone who has ever excused something shitty in a game because "it'll be patched" ought to be horsewhipped.
Quote from: Piestrio;753245Yep, anyone who has ever excused something shitty in a game because "it'll be patched" ought to be horsewhipped.
This.
Quote from: Werekoala;753247This.
What really gets me is how absolutly normal everyone thinks this is. Reviewers regularly give glowing reviews to games with pretty serious flaws because "everyone knows" patches will fix everything.
And dare critique a game honestly based on the product paid for and you'll feel the full weight of online nerdrage.
Quote from: Piestrio;753248What really gets me is how absolutly normal everyone thinks this is. Reviewers regularly give glowing reviews to games with pretty serious flaws because "everyone knows" patches will fix everything.
And dare critique a game honestly based on the product paid for and you'll feel the full weight of online nerdrage.
Poor quality is not normal here. So the reviews are no good then? I don't buy too many electronic games because of this, unless of course, I get the chance to put the game through it's paces first.
ALL HAIL THE NEW PANTHEON OF D&D...
...Gygax, Arneson and Pundit!!!
Okay kids, let's all make sure what we are bowing down to.
The gonna-save-the-hobby 5e PDF offers the bare bones of 5e...BUT that pittance is somehow BETTER compared to massive 3e D20 SRD or the more massive Pathfinder SRD which encompasses a stack of books, or the RQ SRD, or the Traveller SRD or the PDFs for a dozen OSR games which contain their complete game???
Don't get me wrong. Free shit is good marketing. All those actions did create some customers, but nothing earth shaking. However, we are now we supposed to believe the 5e sampler pack PDF is really going to ignite a revolution when whole entire games in PDF did not.
If putting up free PDFs on the web = creates tons of new players, I'd have a lot easier time recruiting for a Mazes & Minotaurs campaign.
Quote from: JamesV;753216A tip of the cap to the Pundit. I hope tonight's final smoke is particularly satisfying.
Tastes like... victory.
Quote from: Spinachcat;753285The gonna-save-the-hobby 5e PDF offers the bare bones of 5e...BUT that pittance is somehow BETTER compared to massive 3e D20 SRD or the more massive Pathfinder SRD which encompasses a stack of books, or the RQ SRD, or the Traveller SRD or the PDFs for a dozen OSR games which contain their complete game???
The biggest difference I see is that an SRD isn't really a game. It's a reference compilation for rules.
If the D&D basic rules are formatted like an actual game then it'll be heads and tales better than an SRD.
Quote from: Spinachcat;753285ALL HAIL THE NEW PANTHEON OF D&D...
...Gygax, Arneson and Pundit!!!
Okay kids, let's all make sure what we are bowing down to.
The gonna-save-the-hobby 5e PDF offers the bare bones of 5e...BUT that pittance is somehow BETTER compared to massive 3e D20 SRD or the more massive Pathfinder SRD which encompasses a stack of books, or the RQ SRD, or the Traveller SRD or the PDFs for a dozen OSR games which contain their complete game???
Don't get me wrong. Free shit is good marketing. All those actions did create some customers, but nothing earth shaking. However, we are now we supposed to believe the 5e sampler pack PDF is really going to ignite a revolution when whole entire games in PDF did not.
If putting up free PDFs on the web = creates tons of new players, I'd have a lot easier time recruiting for a Mazes & Minotaurs campaign.
Sure given none of the above actually interest me or aren't cared about, known about or supported to a level my friends care about.
Hi, my name is Johanna, lasped and casual Dnd player. 5e"s target demographic. I know lots of people just like myself. I even play a RPG with them when time allows or whatnot. We have the desire but not the time, we have the kids, most better on the computer then us. Give us a simpler game then 3/4e. We are ALL in.
More game =/= better game. Give me 64 pages, with art and proper formatting, I can write you a really nice little game with lots of replay value.
In other words, just because other games are available and they have a higher page count doesn't make them better games.
On the other hand, I would love a M&M campaign. Or better, a V&V expansion campaign...
Its the mentality behind it that is different.
Quote from: Piestrio;753245Yep, anyone who has ever excused something shitty in a game because "it'll be patched" ought to be horsewhipped.
Err, what if my method is to never buy a game at release and wait a few months to see if it turned out ok enough to play? :D
Quote from: Warthur;753077Is it going to be a living document? As I understand it the first iteration would come out with the Starter Set and have the character generation and levelling rules, then when the PHB comes out the basic book will be updated to include content from the DMG and MM. There's absolutely no suggestion, from what I've seen, that it'll be further updated after that.
Can we have a citation on this living document crap. I have seen it pop up a few times. Just because it is going online does not mean it will have errata or tweaks applied to it every six months or whatever.
I would prefer it to be static, solid, not a moving target with endless "waaah my character can does x4 damage WITH strength bonus, not without, you are badwrongfun!*"
*A discussion around the thief backstab multiplier for AD&D 2E from 1st printing to subsequent revisions
Quote from: RPGPundit;753293Its the mentality behind it that is different.
Correct. And I WANT Dnd not some OSR thing. We're the excluded middle and they finally are listening to US.:)
Do you even understand how easy it is to pull a game together by the mere phrase, "Want to play Dnd?" Compared to...."Want to play DCC or Mage?" Among my demographic?
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;753298Err, what if my method is to never buy a game at release and wait a few months to see if it turned out ok enough to play? :D
Then you are literally hitler ;)
Quote from: Piestrio;753301Then you are literally hitler ;)
Says Skeletor. :D
Quote from: RPGPundit;753293Its the mentality behind it that is different.
Correct. And I WANT Dnd not some OSR thing. We're the excluded middle and they finally are listening to US.:)
Quote from: Marleycat;753305Says Skeletor. :D
I'd watch that episode
Quote from: RPGPundit;753293Its the mentality behind it that is different.
Woot! That's a quote baby! Somebody's got their PR on tight tonight!
I'd so love to have seen your face when typed that sentence. Fortunately, I also bullshit, I mean consult, for a living.
Keep playing to the cheap seats Pundy! They'll rarely let you down.
BTW, I hope you turn your WotC consulting gig into a bigger role. Perhaps their South American liaison. I can't imagine any reason why the Basic PDF shouldn't be translated into Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese.
Of course, considering their online PR, you should probably make a move on taking over that.
Pundit was right.
It appears WoTC is going to produce a tight stream lined D&D product that will good for introducing younger folk to the game and give me a more laid back version of the game.
I look forward to downloading it once they put in the MM materials this August. And I will definitely being printing the thing.
But I'm still not jumping on the " Starter Set" until I see some four star reviews of the module. I know it's not their job but they could have avoided a bunch of crap by naming it: "Starter Module Set", "1st Adventure", or something.
The first 4e starter adventure Keep on Shadowfell(?) didn't leave a good lasting impression.
But here's to hoping for good products to come...
Quote from: Scott Anderson;753242. . . a weedy little patchouli-tainted Hitler.
It's gems like this that make this forum worthwhile.
Quote from: Spinachcat;753285The gonna-save-the-hobby 5e PDF offers the bare bones of 5e...BUT that pittance is somehow BETTER compared to massive 3e D20 SRD or the more massive Pathfinder SRD which encompasses a stack of books, or the RQ SRD, or the Traveller SRD or the PDFs for a dozen OSR games which contain their complete game???
It could be better than the SRDs if it's presented as a game to learn, rather than as a reference document. ie it looks like OSRIC, not like the d20 SRD. Whether it's better than other games will depend on the quality of the rules. If I can get a print version (like OSRIC) I may well give it a try, so I'll wait to see if they do that.
The PDF to Swords & Wizardry and the PDF to Mazes & Minotaurs is a complete game, written for ease of understanding for new players. They are both well written, both have been online for years, both downloaded thousands of times, but neither has set the world on fire.
All the "but I want an easier to play D&D" noise would make sense if these and a hundred other PDFs of complete games weren't floating around the web.
Marleycat has the most honest answer I've seen. She primarily wants to be part of the WotC fold again and secondarily wants a rules-lighter D&D. I get that. I was "out of the fold" for most of 2e and all 3e.
When you are "out of the fold", you don't get to be excited about what Santa WotC is going to put out next and be part of that in the wider gaming community. 5e [so far] promises her, Pundy and others a chance to rejoin the Cool Kids who play the current edition.
Quote from: BarefootGaijin;753299Can we have a citation on this living document crap. I have seen it pop up a few times. Just because it is going online does not mean it will have errata or tweaks applied to it every six months or whatever.
I think people may be referring to this line in the Legends & Lore (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20140527) post.
'As we introduce new storylines like Tyranny of Dragons, we'll also make available free PDFs that provide all the rules and stats missing from Basic D&D needed to run the adventures tied into the story.'
However, that seems to imply that the rules additions will be in *separate* pdfs, rather than making the Core a living document.
Quote from: Spinachcat;753345The PDF to Swords & Wizardry and the PDF to Mazes & Minotaurs is a complete game, written for ease of understanding for new players. They are both well written, both have been online for years, both downloaded thousands of times, but neither has set the world on fire.
All the "but I want an easier to play D&D" noise would make sense if these and a hundred other PDFs of complete games weren't floating around the web.
The OSR is a niche of a niche.
D&D, under that same brand name, was the undisputed 800 pound gorilla for 38 years and still the only RPG that's a household name among people who aren't gamers.
An interesting development and probably a sound business strategy. Nevertheless, I won't pass judgement until I've seen the game with my own eyes.
Quote from: Brad;753102Because some of us are Luddites and fucking hate reading PDFs. I print out every PDF I buy. True story.
Me too. It was a subtle jab at the ever-changing 4E ruleset.
Quote from: Piestrio;753288The biggest difference I see is that an SRD isn't really a game. It's a reference compilation for rules.
If the D&D basic rules are formatted like an actual game then it'll be heads and tales better than an SRD.
Absolutely. The SRD does not include rules for character advancement, so it really isn't a complete game. This basic D&D has a chance at being one though.
Quote from: The Butcher;753372An interesting development and probably a sound business strategy. Nevertheless, I won't pass judgement until I've seen the game with my own eyes.
Yarp.
I figured it out, but I wasn't planning on saying anything until the other shoe dropped. There was simply no way Pundit was remaining relentlessly upbeat without true Basic D&D being the "PDF" that people were upset about needing for the chargen for the starter set.
Me, I'm looking forward to it.
Quote from: LibraryLass;753358The OSR is a niche of a niche.
D&D, under that same brand name, was the undisputed 800 pound gorilla for 38 years and still the only RPG that's a household name among people who aren't gamers.
This.
When my virulently anti-RPG parents have no comprehension of what Pathfinder is but sure as hell know what D&D, then you know what side is the dominant historical side.
If the 5E starter set will get sold at supermarkets and toy stores IN ADDITION to FLGSs, AND include enough material for many enjoyable evenings, expect a large influx of new players into the game. D&D is the "gateway drug" of RPGs, after all, and will be even better if it will be widely available for people who have never heard much about pen-and-paper RPGs.
Quote from: Spinachcat;753345The PDF to Swords & Wizardry and the PDF to Mazes & Minotaurs is a complete game, written for ease of understanding for new players. They are both well written, both have been online for years, both downloaded thousands of times, but neither has set the world on fire.
All the "but I want an easier to play D&D" noise would make sense if these and a hundred other PDFs of complete games weren't floating around the web.
Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs are irrelevant to 90 per cent of the D&D market. If you don't hang on out on OSR RPG forums, how would you even know they exist? More people will download the D&D basic rules in the first hour of their release than have downloaded S&W and M&M combined in their entire history.
Quote from: Haffrung;753466Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs are irrelevant to 90 per cent of the D&D market. If you don't hang on out on OSR RPG forums, how would you even know they exist? More people will download the D&D basic rules in the first hour of their release than have downloaded S&W and M&M combined in their entire history.
So you're telling me the general public has no idea that Dungeon World exists? Surely you jest.
Quote from: golan2072;753412If the 5E starter set will get sold at supermarkets and toy stores IN ADDITION to FLGSs, AND include enough material for many enjoyable evenings, expect a large influx of new players into the game. D&D is the "gateway drug" of RPGs, after all, and will be even better if it will be widely available for people who have never heard much about pen-and-paper RPGs.
This is really the key to this whole starter set that I'm watching for, and why I'm not greatly worried about lack of chargen in it (yeah, it would be easy and nice to have it, but..). The boxed set isn't directed at any of us. It seems, to me anyway, that it's directed to be stocked at toy stores again, where people will pick it up and want to jump right in and play. For that demographic, you really don't need chargen. And if everything goes right, many of those people will read the little blurbs and show interest to expand their sessions by either getting the full basic version of the game for free, or ideally, buying the full game.
Now that all being said, if the starter set isn't stocked in traditional toy stores, you can throw that assumption out of the window.
Quote from: Haffrung;753466Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs are irrelevant to 90 per cent of the D&D market. If you don't hang on out on OSR RPG forums, how would you even know they exist? More people will download the D&D basic rules in the first hour of their release than have downloaded S&W and M&M combined in their entire history.
Forget about "exist" try "are worth the effort". This is a
non-issue for D&D. People are going to try it.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753478Now that all being said, if the starter set isn't stocked in traditional toy stores, you can throw that assumption out of the window.
Ehhh. I see the point, but there's still value in the Starter Set if...
A) Will Wheaton plays it on YouTube
B) It makes a good gift
C) Amazon ships it Prime
Etc
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;753317But I'm still not jumping on the " Starter Set" until I see some four star reviews of the module. I know it's not their job but they could have avoided a bunch of crap by naming it: "Starter Module Set", "1st Adventure", or something.
Yeah. I think if they had called it the "Quickstart Set" there'd be a lot less hand-wringing.
Quote from: Brad;753469So you're telling me the general public has no idea that Dungeon World exists? Surely you jest.
The general gaming public? Maybe. I know a bunch of gamers that had never heard of it.
The general public? As in, "pick a random person walking down the street?" I bet you'd get at least 80% recognition of D&D (at least, especially if dealing with people that have lived in the US their whole lives). I doubt you'd get 5% recognition of Dungeon World.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753478This is really the key to this whole starter set that I'm watching for, and why I'm not greatly worried about lack of chargen in it (yeah, it would be easy and nice to have it, but..). The boxed set isn't directed at any of us. It seems, to me anyway, that it's directed to be stocked at toy stores again, where people will pick it up and want to jump right in and play. For that demographic, you really don't need chargen. And if everything goes right, many of those people will read the little blurbs and show interest to expand their sessions by either getting the full basic version of the game for free, or ideally, buying the full game.
Now that all being said, if the starter set isn't stocked in traditional toy stores, you can throw that assumption out of the window.
I pretty much expected it to be in Toys R Us, Walmart, Target etc. No explicit character generation means it can be marketed differently to parents then a RPG.
Quote from: Marleycat;753487I pretty much expected it to be in Toys R Us, Walmart, Target etc. No explicit character generation means it can be marketed differently to parents then a RPG.
Yep.
Then when their kids get home and are on the internet printing out 48 pages of material on their folks inkjet printer, Mom and Dad will be wondering what the hell they just spent $20.00 on.
Quote from: mcbobbo;753483Ehhh. I see the point, but there's still value in the Starter Set if...
A) Will Wheaton plays it on YouTube
B) It makes a good gift
C) Amazon ships it Prime
Etc
Fair point. You're correct.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;753491Yep.
Then when their kids get home and are on the internet printing out 48 pages of material on their folks inkjet printer, Mom and Dad will be wondering what the hell they just spent $20.00 on.
True but that's a whole other kettle o fish. They likely have a Galaxy 3+or tablet so it's likely not as relevant as you make it out to be. Or they use a library/school/university computer.....
For example $14.40 gets you the full hardcopy at the public library sometimes half that. In a city with a university it's easy to get access to free printing so do it yourself. There are many ways to skin a cat and kids aren't oblivious to them.
Quote from: robiswrong;753484The general gaming public? Maybe. I know a bunch of gamers that had never heard of it.
The general public? As in, "pick a random person walking down the street?" I bet you'd get at least 80% recognition of D&D (at least, especially if dealing with people that have lived in the US their whole lives). I doubt you'd get 5% recognition of Dungeon World.
Obviously I'm being sarcastic. I'd say 90% of roleplayers only know D&D exists, and the general public has no clue anything other than D&D exists whatsoever.
Quote from: mcbobbo;753483Ehhh. I see the point, but there's still value in the Starter Set if...
A) Will Wheaton plays it on YouTube
The kids I know have no concept of Will Wheaton... but if you could get some of those goofy YouTube game video guys, like Smosh, to talk it up, do a quick bit of play... explain that it's cool despite having words that need to be read, they might bite.
Quote from: Brad;753505Obviously I'm being sarcastic. I'd say 90% of roleplayers only know D&D exists, and the general public has no clue anything other than D&D exists whatsoever.
A while back, when some kids asked me to run D&D for them it was clear they had no clue of actual D&D vs. other RPGs... I ran BRP for them because it's what I know and had loads of stuff for. They went nuts for it and didn't care at all when I explained, up front, that D&D is technically a different game of the same type. It wasn't 'bait n switch'... they had no expectations beyond roleplaying/fantasy.
D&D is the 'kleenex' of RPGs.
Quote from: Brad;753505Obviously I'm being sarcastic. I'd say 90% of roleplayers only know D&D exists, and the general public has no clue anything other than D&D exists whatsoever.
Sorry. My sacrasm-meter is broken that early in the morning.
Quote from: Spinachcat;753345The PDF to Swords & Wizardry and the PDF to Mazes & Minotaurs is a complete game, written for ease of understanding for new players. They are both well written, both have been online for years, both downloaded thousands of times, but neither has set the world on fire.
All the "but I want an easier to play D&D" noise would make sense if these and a hundred other PDFs of complete games weren't floating around the web.
Marleycat has the most honest answer I've seen. She primarily wants to be part of the WotC fold again and secondarily wants a rules-lighter D&D. I get that. I was "out of the fold" for most of 2e and all 3e.
When you are "out of the fold", you don't get to be excited about what Santa WotC is going to put out next and be part of that in the wider gaming community. 5e [so far] promises her, Pundy and others a chance to rejoin the Cool Kids who play the current edition.
They don't have encounters or the other public play/PR that WotC does. Also speaking of PR, PAX games before thousands. It isn't just that Basic is free. Least I don't think so.
Quote from: Haffrung;753466Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs are irrelevant to 90 per cent of the D&D market.
Point of order - I'd say the percentage is much higher than 90%. Neither game even ends up as a rounding error in any survey or poll or automated scan of forums or anything like that. I'd guess it's less than 1% of the market.
Quote from: Brad;753469So you're telling me the general public has no idea that Dungeon World exists? Surely you jest.
Dungeon World gets some interest. To put it in perspective, it gets a 3 in discussions (http://www.enworld.org/forum/hotgames.php). Compare that to 5e, which gets a 236, or Pathfinder at 173. For the combined list, Dungeon World gets 0.4% interest level.
Whatever flaws you might see with that measuring system, even if you assume it's off by factors of 100s, it still speaks volumes for just how tiny Dungeon World is, and how even tinier games like Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs really are in the vast sea that is this marketplace.
None of that speaks to the quality of these games, or their popularity within niche groups. But, I think sometimes the echo chamber caused by those groups can give the impression they are more popular games than they really are.
Quote from: Simlasa;753507The kids I know have no concept of Will Wheaton... but if you could get some of those goofy YouTube game video guys, like Smosh, to talk it up, do a quick bit of play... explain that it's cool despite having words that need to be read, they might bite.
I'm referring to TableTop and their impact on board games. Suffice to say, if TableTop does the game, certain stores start stocking it. It's a thing.
Speaking of influences, Pundit, I do have one question - did you perhaps try to persuade the WotC to get all that Basic/PDF D&D parts into an app in style of DCC, seeing how much you liked the latter?
Quote from: Mistwell;753534Dungeon World gets some interest. To put it in perspective, it gets a 3 in discussions (http://www.enworld.org/forum/hotgames.php). Compare that to 5e, which gets a 236, or Pathfinder at 173. For the combined list, Dungeon World gets 0.4% interest level.
Whatever flaws you might see with that measuring system, even if you assume it's off by factors of 100s, it still speaks volumes for just how tiny Dungeon World is, and how even tinier games like Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs really are in the vast sea that is this marketplace.
None of that speaks to the quality of these games, or their popularity within niche groups. But, I think sometimes the echo chamber caused by those groups can give the impression they are more popular games than they really are.
Echo chambers can also give a skewed perspective in the opposite direction.
Or, has Enworld started collecting data from the OD&D forum, Dragonsfoot, K&K, theRPGsite, Goodman Games Forums, Goblinoid Games Forums, Google+, etc., etc., etc.
You know, the actual places where most old schoolers hang.
Quote from: mcbobbo;753537I'm referring to TableTop and their impact on board games. Suffice to say, if TableTop does the game, certain stores start stocking it. It's a thing.
I've seen games show up on tabletop then sell out within a week.
Dude has a lot of impact in the Board Game market.
Quote from: jasmith;753586Echo chambers can also give a skewed perspective in the opposite direction.
Or, has Enworld started collecting data from the OD&D forum, Dragonsfoot, K&K, theRPGsite, Goodman Games Forums, Goblinoid Games Forums, Google+, etc., etc., etc.
You know, the actual places where most old schoolers hang.
It doesn't count Google+ as far as I know, but it does count every forum with an RSS feed.
Quote from: jadrax;753592It doesn't count Google+ as far as I know, but it does count every forum with an RSS feed.
An earlier thread on this topic revealed that old school forums
weren't being tracked. That may have changed, but I see no evidence of it on the En World page.
Quote from: jasmith;753586Echo chambers can also give a skewed perspective in the opposite direction.
Or, has Enworld started collecting data from the OD&D forum, Dragonsfoot, K&K, theRPGsite, Goodman Games Forums, Goblinoid Games Forums, Google+, etc., etc., etc.
You know, the actual places where most old schoolers hang.
As a matter of fact, it does from some of those. ANY RPG board with RSS feed accessibility. And an earlier thread didn't reveal anything about old school boards not being tracked - ANY board he can grab with RSS feeds that has to do with RPGs, he will grab it. He'd like to include this board, but Pundit only has RSS for his blog, not the board itself. So, at least Pundit's blog is included. But he can only measure data that's accessible.
That said, I think the post count tells all you need to know. Add up all those boards together for a day, and you are getting a matter of an hour at a place like the Big Purple. My point stands - those games are simply not as popular as you (or I) would like them to be. It's not a comment on quality, you don't have to get defensive about it it's more a comment on distribution really, but it is what it is no matter how much you wish it was different.
Quote from: Mistwell;753599As a matter of fact, it does from some of those. ANY RPG board with RSS feed accessibility. I know there is some Google+ data in there for example. Pretty sure Morrus mentioned Goodman at one point. He'd like to include this board, but Pundit only has RSS for his blog, not the board itself.
Source? And which ones? Not being contentious, here. I'd really like the info. And why "Some" G+ data, instead of all of it?
Quote from: jasmith;753603Source? And which ones? Not being contentious, here. I'd really like the info. And why "Some" G+ data, instead of all of it?
I checked it's not G+ data it's just blog posts that also feed to G+. I guess he would need to pay for an API to get G+ data.
I do not have a complete list, just what Morrus has said. If you know of any particular board which has RSS feeds that you want to make sure he includes, let him know (he will answer questions about particular sources, I just don't think he has an easy way to post a list). The thing serves no purpose unless it's as comprehensive as he can make it. He made it to find out as much data as he can, in part for personal gain - he wants to produce the kinds of games people talk about, and it's against his best interest to exclude a board.
Quote from: Mistwell;753606I checked it's not G+ data it's just blog posts that also feed to G+. I guess he would need to pay for an API to get G+ data.
I do not have a complete list, just what Morrus has said. If you know of any particular board which has RSS feeds that you want to make sure he includes, let him know (he will answer questions about particular sources, I just don't think he has an easy way to post a list). The thing serves no purpose unless it's as comprehensive as he can make it. He made it to find out as much data as he can, in part for personal gain - he wants to produce the kinds of games people talk about, and it's against his best interest to exclude a board.
He's gotta be including Dragonsfoot, now. No way 2e makes 1.21%, otherwise. Unless it's just tracking all the 2e/5e comparison comments, I've seen.
Quote from: Brad;753505Obviously I'm being sarcastic. I'd say 90% of roleplayers only know D&D exists, and the general public has no clue anything other than D&D exists whatsoever.
I'd say slightly more than only D&D. I always see Pathfinder, Shadowrun, 40k, and World of Darkness stuff at my local Barnes and Noble. But still only tier 1 stuff and maybe the very upper echelon of tier 2.
And this is what should have been printed in a box set... not some piece of shit crippleware ad copy... fucking morons...
I've got mixed feelings. I hate crippleware rpgs and yes that means I think weapon, vehicle, and spaceship design should always be right in the core of an sfrpg.
So, here's the thing, the starter's no more than an ad you pay for and that's dumb. A 32 page D&D lite like GURPS lite as a free handout would be better. But a full on complete in one book Basic D&D hardback? It's about time. That's what it is. So, as long as they follow through on that I'll let the starter slide.
.pdf? Yeah so that's like a full printer cartridge right there man. Or you need a tablet which while common is hardly ubiquitous and pretty pricey as well.
Quote from: David Johansen;753646A 32 page D&D lite like GURPS lite as a free handout would be better. But a full on complete in one book Basic D&D hardback? It's about time.
Considering that they didn't plan to put it to print at all, and that they are only now "considering it" (after the obligatory WotC marketing induced forum reactions) I have the gut feeling that this product will not get the hardback treatment (if only to avoid confusion regarding the trinity of PHB, DMG, MM).
A regular softcover? Or an Essential-style digest softcover?
Quote from: David Johansen;753646I've got mixed feelings. I hate crippleware rpgs and yes that means I think weapon, vehicle, and spaceship design should always be right in the core of an sfrpg.
So, here's the thing, the starter's no more than an ad you pay for and that's dumb. A 32 page D&D lite like GURPS lite as a free handout would be better. But a full on complete in one book Basic D&D hardback? It's about time. That's what it is. So, as long as they follow through on that I'll let the starter slide.
.pdf? Yeah so that's like a full printer cartridge right there man. Or you need a tablet which while common is hardly ubiquitous and pretty pricey as well.
You don't need a tablet a phone can do it and a phone is as close to ubiquitous as you can get.
If your complaint is "I want a paper copy cos I like books" then find but you have to grasp this is personal preference not very common with anyone under 30....
I find it all odd as I never reference a rule book in play.
If I get 5e I will read the rules and then I won't refer to them again in play. Players may need to look up spells or check special abilites but I usually advise them to print them on their character sheets. The rest of the rules will be in my head I mean they are hardly complicated.
FYI - if you set your inkjet to "draft' rather than fine print its absolutley fine for text and you will get 4 -5 times as many copies out of it.
Quote from: Mistwell;753599As a matter of fact, it does from some of those. ANY RPG board with RSS feed accessibility. And an earlier thread didn't reveal anything about old school boards not being tracked - ANY board he can grab with RSS feeds that has to do with RPGs, he will grab it. He'd like to include this board, but Pundit only has RSS for his blog, not the board itself. So, at least Pundit's blog is included. But he can only measure data that's accessible.
That is false.
http://www.therpgsite.com/external.php/type=RSS2
In addition, there are RSS feeds for the individual forums, and special feeds for the News and Reviews forums as well, linked right from the forum index.
This is all standard features for vBulletin forums.
Quote from: David Johansen;753646So, here's the thing, the starter's no more than an ad you pay for and that's dumb.
Even if this was a fair statement - and it isn't remotely fair to claim that there is nothing useful in a starter as if no one could run a game with it - even if, it's still an 'ad' that someone else can pay for, e.g. a gift.
That alone justifies having it.
And I would argue it makes a much better gift for an RPG noob that the PHB would. If you drop a 300 page text on someone who doesn't understand the value it's just going to gather dust.
Any industry benefits from 'on ramps'.
Quote from: Rincewind1;753585Speaking of influences, Pundit, I do have one question - did you perhaps try to persuade the WotC to get all that Basic/PDF D&D parts into an app in style of DCC, seeing how much you liked the latter?
I'll admit that it didn't really occur to me.
Quote from: David Johansen;753646So, here's the thing, the starter's no more than an ad you pay for and that's dumb.
No, the starter is an adventure (or collection of adventures?) that can be run out of the box, targeted at new DMs.
Quote from: RPGPundit;753000So the other shoe has finally fucking dropped. Here's Mike Mearls announcing what I've known for months and had to keep a lid on; what I had tried to hint at and a few of you got, but most did not. Yes, there will be a Basic D&D.
But its more than just that. It will be on a PDF. It will be FREE. And most importantly, it will be the true Core D&D. Not the PHB, not the DMG, not that 10000-feats version. No. The basic version will be the default version of the D&D game, the one that all adventure products will use for their baseline.
This is hugely significant. This is the victory of Old-school thinking over all else, and I don't mind if I take more than a little credit for the lobbying I have done to create and hold this vision as a Consultant.
You're all welcome.
It is also an incredibly bold move for Wizards to make. It means that in theory, all you'll ever need to play D&D will be, in the first few months, the Starter Set and the Basic Rules PDF. And after that, not even the Starter Set. So whatever you get, whatever you purchase or get into from Wizards will not be because they're holding a gun to your head. It will be because they'll be making great products (well, we hope!).
This is, with any luck, the beginning of the end for the whole "endless Splatbook-production-line model" of RPG thinking which only served to create an ever-shrinking mass of aging fanatics while alienating everyone else who didn't want to have to buy every single book.
Making Basic D&D the core D&D rules means that kids will be able to get into the game first, and then become customers of those adventures, expansions, settings or materials that they find exciting. It will serve the "amateur" gamer rather than the hardcore drooling fan, and that's a good thing.
So its time now to give Wizards its due. And to give the Pundit his due, particularly all the naysayers and those who made certain claims about me in the last few days. I win again.
And this time, so does every other D&D fan.
RPGPundit
Well done, and thank you.
Quote from: Marleycat;753063The errata thing was the major reason I quit 4e I just couldn't keep up with what people were saying were even issues if anything.
I have seen a few 4E players debate (Not argue, it was a calm debate) many, many points of errata, usually in regards to perfecting a build.
Yuck.
So I can relate to not wanting to deal with errata.
All-though, I think the errata itself is not my problem; it's the build debates.
Quote from: Bill;753839I have seen a few 4E players debate (Not argue, it was a calm debate) many, many points of errata, usually in regards to perfecting a build.
Yuck.
So I can relate to not wanting to deal with errata.
All-though, I think the errata itself is not my problem; it's the build debates.
Ugn, DPR I mean doesn't anybody know there is more to the game then blowshitupis? I like blowing shit up mind you but there are other ways sometimes.
Quote from: J Arcane;753715That is false.
http://www.therpgsite.com/external.php/type=RSS2
In addition, there are RSS feeds for the individual forums, and special feeds for the News and Reviews forums as well, linked right from the forum index.
This is all standard features for vBulletin forums.
Let's be clear - I ASKED Pundit and the admins here if there was an RSS feed and was told no, there is only one for the blog. If there is one, then I was misinformed, and I am happy to have Morrus add it to his list. Are you SURE it's what you think it is?
Quote from: Mistwell;753856Let's be clear - I ASKED Pundit and the admins here if there was an RSS feed and was told no, there is only one for the blog. If there is one, then I was misinformed, and I am happy to have Morrus add it to his list. Are you SURE it's what you think it is?
Dude, click the fucking link.
Quote from: J Arcane;753871Dude, click the fucking link.
I did. No idea what I am looking at.
If you say it's for the whole board, then cool I believe you. Just messaged Morrus asking him to add it.
I have no clue what you guys are talking about. Tech mods??