Quote from: robiswrong;753484The general gaming public?  Maybe.  I know a bunch of gamers that had never heard of it.

The general public?  As in, "pick a random person walking down the street?"  I bet you'd get at least 80% recognition of D&D (at least, especially if dealing with people that have lived in the US their whole lives).  I doubt you'd get 5% recognition of Dungeon World.

Obviously I'm being sarcastic. I'd say 90% of roleplayers only know D&D exists, and the general public has no clue anything other than D&D exists whatsoever.

Quote from: mcbobbo;753483Ehhh.  I see the point, but there's still value in the Starter Set if...

A) Will Wheaton plays it on YouTube

The kids I know have no concept of Will Wheaton... but if you could get some of those goofy YouTube game video guys, like Smosh, to talk it up, do a quick bit of play... explain that it's cool despite having words that need to be read, they might bite.

Quote from: Brad;753505Obviously I'm being sarcastic. I'd say 90% of roleplayers only know D&D exists, and the general public has no clue anything other than D&D exists whatsoever.

A while back, when some kids asked me to run D&D for them it was clear they had no clue of actual D&D vs. other RPGs... I ran BRP for them because it's what I know and had loads of stuff for. They went nuts for it and didn't care at all when I explained, up front, that D&D is technically a different game of the same type. It wasn't 'bait n switch'... they had no expectations beyond roleplaying/fantasy.
D&D is the 'kleenex' of RPGs.

Quote from: Brad;753505Obviously I'm being sarcastic. I'd say 90% of roleplayers only know D&D exists, and the general public has no clue anything other than D&D exists whatsoever.

Sorry.  My sacrasm-meter is broken that early in the morning.

Quote from: Spinachcat;753345The PDF to Swords & Wizardry and the PDF to Mazes & Minotaurs is a complete game, written for ease of understanding for new players. They are both well written, both have been online for years, both downloaded thousands of times, but neither has set the world on fire.

All the "but I want an easier to play D&D" noise would make sense if these and a hundred other PDFs of complete games weren't floating around the web.

Marleycat has the most honest answer I've seen. She primarily wants to be part of the WotC fold again and secondarily wants a rules-lighter D&D. I get that. I was "out of the fold" for most of 2e and all 3e.

When you are "out of the fold", you don't get to be excited about what Santa WotC is going to put out next and be part of that in the wider gaming community. 5e [so far] promises her, Pundy and others a chance to rejoin the Cool Kids who play the current edition.

They don't have encounters or the other public play/PR that WotC does. Also speaking of PR, PAX games before thousands. It isn't just that Basic is free. Least I don't think so.

Quote from: Haffrung;753466Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs are irrelevant to 90 per cent of the D&D market.

Point of order - I'd say the percentage is much higher than 90%.  Neither game even ends up as a rounding error in any survey or poll or automated scan of forums or anything like that.  I'd guess it's less than 1% of the market.

Quote from: Brad;753469So you're telling me the general public has no idea that Dungeon World exists? Surely you jest.

Dungeon World gets some interest.  To put it in perspective, it gets a 3 in discussions.  Compare that to 5e, which gets a 236, or Pathfinder at 173.  For the combined list, Dungeon World gets 0.4% interest level.

Whatever flaws you might see with that measuring system, even if you assume it's off by factors of 100s, it still speaks volumes for just how tiny Dungeon World is, and how even tinier games like Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs really are in the vast sea that is this marketplace.

None of that speaks to the quality of these games, or their popularity within niche groups.  But, I think sometimes the echo chamber caused by those groups can give the impression they are more popular games than they really are.

Quote from: Simlasa;753507The kids I know have no concept of Will Wheaton... but if you could get some of those goofy YouTube game video guys, like Smosh, to talk it up, do a quick bit of play... explain that it's cool despite having words that need to be read, they might bite.

I'm referring to TableTop and their impact on board games.  Suffice to say, if TableTop does the game, certain stores start stocking it.  It's a thing.

Speaking of influences, Pundit, I do have one question - did you perhaps try to persuade the WotC to get all that Basic/PDF D&D parts into an app in style of DCC, seeing how much you liked the latter?

Quote from: Mistwell;753534Dungeon World gets some interest.  To put it in perspective, it gets a 3 in discussions.  Compare that to 5e, which gets a 236, or Pathfinder at 173.  For the combined list, Dungeon World gets 0.4% interest level.

Whatever flaws you might see with that measuring system, even if you assume it's off by factors of 100s, it still speaks volumes for just how tiny Dungeon World is, and how even tinier games like Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs really are in the vast sea that is this marketplace.

None of that speaks to the quality of these games, or their popularity within niche groups.  But, I think sometimes the echo chamber caused by those groups can give the impression they are more popular games than they really are.

Echo chambers can also give a skewed perspective in the opposite direction.

Or, has Enworld started collecting data from the OD&D forum, Dragonsfoot, K&K, theRPGsite, Goodman Games Forums, Goblinoid Games Forums, Google+, etc., etc., etc.

You know, the actual places where most old schoolers hang.

Quote from: mcbobbo;753537I'm referring to TableTop and their impact on board games.  Suffice to say, if TableTop does the game, certain stores start stocking it.  It's a thing.

I've seen games show up on tabletop then sell out within a week.

Dude has a lot of impact in the Board Game market.

Quote from: jasmith;753586Echo chambers can also give a skewed perspective in the opposite direction.

Or, has Enworld started collecting data from the OD&D forum, Dragonsfoot, K&K, theRPGsite, Goodman Games Forums, Goblinoid Games Forums, Google+, etc., etc., etc.

You know, the actual places where most old schoolers hang.

It doesn't count Google+ as far as I know, but it does count every forum with an RSS feed.

Quote from: jadrax;753592It doesn't count Google+ as far as I know, but it does count every forum with an RSS feed.

An earlier thread on this topic revealed that old school forums weren't being tracked. That may have changed, but I see no evidence of it on the En World page.

Quote from: jasmith;753586Echo chambers can also give a skewed perspective in the opposite direction.

Or, has Enworld started collecting data from the OD&D forum, Dragonsfoot, K&K, theRPGsite, Goodman Games Forums, Goblinoid Games Forums, Google+, etc., etc., etc.

You know, the actual places where most old schoolers hang.

As a matter of fact, it does from some of those.  ANY RPG board with RSS feed accessibility. And an earlier thread didn't reveal anything about old school boards not being tracked - ANY board he can grab with RSS feeds that has to do with RPGs, he will grab it.  He'd like to include this board, but Pundit only has RSS for his blog, not the board itself.  So, at least Pundit's blog is included.  But he can only measure data that's accessible.  

That said, I think the post count tells all you need to know.  Add up all those boards together for a day, and you are getting a matter of an hour at a place like the Big Purple.  My point stands - those games are simply not as popular as you (or I) would like them to be.  It's not a comment on quality, you don't have to get defensive about it it's more a comment on distribution really, but it is what it is no matter how much you wish it was different.

Quote from: Mistwell;753599As a matter of fact, it does from some of those.  ANY RPG board with RSS feed accessibility.  I know there is some Google+ data in there for example.  Pretty sure Morrus mentioned Goodman at one point.  He'd like to include this board, but Pundit only has RSS for his blog, not the board itself.

Source? And which ones? Not being contentious, here. I'd really like the info. And why "Some" G+ data, instead of all of it?

Quote from: jasmith;753603Source? And which ones? Not being contentious, here. I'd really like the info. And why "Some" G+ data, instead of all of it?

I checked it's not G+ data it's just blog posts that also feed to G+.  I guess he would need to pay for an API to get G+ data.

I do not have a complete list, just what Morrus has said.  If you know of any particular board which has RSS feeds that you want to make sure he includes, let him know (he will answer questions about particular sources, I just don't think he has an easy way to post a list).  The thing serves no purpose unless it's as comprehensive as he can make it.  He made it to find out as much data as he can, in part for personal gain - he wants to produce the kinds of games people talk about, and it's against his best interest to exclude a board.