Quote from: Spinachcat;753345The PDF to Swords & Wizardry and the PDF to Mazes & Minotaurs is a complete game, written for ease of understanding for new players. They are both well written, both have been online for years, both downloaded thousands of times, but neither has set the world on fire.

All the "but I want an easier to play D&D" noise would make sense if these and a hundred other PDFs of complete games weren't floating around the web.

The OSR is a niche of a niche.

D&D, under that same brand name, was the undisputed 800 pound gorilla for 38 years and still the only RPG that's a household name among people who aren't gamers.

An interesting development and probably a sound business strategy. Nevertheless, I won't pass judgement until I've seen the game with my own eyes.

Quote from: Brad;753102Because some of us are Luddites and fucking hate reading PDFs. I print out every PDF I buy. True story.

Me too. It was a subtle jab at the ever-changing 4E ruleset.

Quote from: Piestrio;753288The biggest difference I see is that an SRD isn't really a game. It's a reference compilation for rules.

If the D&D basic rules are formatted like an actual game then it'll be heads and tales better than an SRD.

Absolutely. The SRD does not include rules for character advancement, so it really isn't a complete game. This basic D&D has a chance at being one though.

Quote from: The Butcher;753372An interesting development and probably a sound business strategy. Nevertheless, I won't pass judgement until I've seen the game with my own eyes.

Yarp.

I figured it out, but I wasn't planning on saying anything until the other shoe dropped.  There was simply no way Pundit was remaining relentlessly upbeat without true Basic D&D being the "PDF" that people were upset about needing for the chargen for the starter set.

Me, I'm looking forward to it.

Quote from: LibraryLass;753358The OSR is a niche of a niche.

D&D, under that same brand name, was the undisputed 800 pound gorilla for 38 years and still the only RPG that's a household name among people who aren't gamers.

This.

When my virulently anti-RPG parents have no comprehension of what Pathfinder is but sure as hell know what D&D, then you know what side is the dominant historical side.

If the 5E starter set will get sold at supermarkets and toy stores IN ADDITION to FLGSs, AND include enough material for many enjoyable evenings, expect a large influx of new players into the game. D&D is the "gateway drug" of RPGs, after all, and will be even better if it will be widely available for people who have never heard much about pen-and-paper RPGs.

Quote from: Spinachcat;753345The PDF to Swords & Wizardry and the PDF to Mazes & Minotaurs is a complete game, written for ease of understanding for new players. They are both well written, both have been online for years, both downloaded thousands of times, but neither has set the world on fire.

All the "but I want an easier to play D&D" noise would make sense if these and a hundred other PDFs of complete games weren't floating around the web.

Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs are irrelevant to 90 per cent of the D&D market. If you don't hang on out on OSR RPG forums, how would you even know they exist? More people will download the D&D basic rules in the first hour of their release than have downloaded S&W and M&M combined in their entire history.

Quote from: Haffrung;753466Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs are irrelevant to 90 per cent of the D&D market. If you don't hang on out on OSR RPG forums, how would you even know they exist? More people will download the D&D basic rules in the first hour of their release than have downloaded S&W and M&M combined in their entire history.

So you're telling me the general public has no idea that Dungeon World exists? Surely you jest.

Quote from: golan2072;753412If the 5E starter set will get sold at supermarkets and toy stores IN ADDITION to FLGSs, AND include enough material for many enjoyable evenings, expect a large influx of new players into the game. D&D is the "gateway drug" of RPGs, after all, and will be even better if it will be widely available for people who have never heard much about pen-and-paper RPGs.

This is really the key to this whole starter set that I'm watching for, and why I'm not greatly worried about lack of chargen in it (yeah, it would be easy and nice to have it, but..).  The boxed set isn't directed at any of us.  It seems, to me anyway, that it's directed to be stocked at toy stores again, where people will pick it up and want to jump right in and play.  For that demographic, you really don't need chargen.  And if everything goes right, many of those people will read the little blurbs and show interest to expand their sessions by either getting the full basic version of the game for free, or ideally, buying the full game.

Now that all being said, if the starter set isn't stocked in traditional toy stores, you can throw that assumption out of the window.

Quote from: Haffrung;753466Swords & Wizardry and Mazes & Minotaurs are irrelevant to 90 per cent of the D&D market. If you don't hang on out on OSR RPG forums, how would you even know they exist? More people will download the D&D basic rules in the first hour of their release than have downloaded S&W and M&M combined in their entire history.

Forget about "exist" try "are worth the effort".  This is a non-issue for D&D.  People are going to try it.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;753478Now that all being said, if the starter set isn't stocked in traditional toy stores, you can throw that assumption out of the window.

Ehhh.  I see the point, but there's still value in the Starter Set if...

A) Will Wheaton plays it on YouTube
B) It makes a good gift
C) Amazon ships it Prime
Etc

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;753317But I'm still not jumping on the " Starter Set" until I see some four star reviews of the module. I know it's not their job but they could have avoided a bunch of crap by naming it: "Starter  Module Set", "1st Adventure", or something.

Yeah.  I think if they had called it the "Quickstart Set" there'd be a lot less hand-wringing.

Quote from: Brad;753469So you're telling me the general public has no idea that Dungeon World exists? Surely you jest.

The general gaming public?  Maybe.  I know a bunch of gamers that had never heard of it.

The general public?  As in, "pick a random person walking down the street?"  I bet you'd get at least 80% recognition of D&D (at least, especially if dealing with people that have lived in the US their whole lives).  I doubt you'd get 5% recognition of Dungeon World.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;753478This is really the key to this whole starter set that I'm watching for, and why I'm not greatly worried about lack of chargen in it (yeah, it would be easy and nice to have it, but..).  The boxed set isn't directed at any of us.  It seems, to me anyway, that it's directed to be stocked at toy stores again, where people will pick it up and want to jump right in and play.  For that demographic, you really don't need chargen.  And if everything goes right, many of those people will read the little blurbs and show interest to expand their sessions by either getting the full basic version of the game for free, or ideally, buying the full game.

Now that all being said, if the starter set isn't stocked in traditional toy stores, you can throw that assumption out of the window.

I pretty much expected it to be in Toys R Us, Walmart, Target etc.  No explicit character generation means it can be marketed differently to parents then a RPG.

Quote from: Marleycat;753487I pretty much expected it to be in Toys R Us, Walmart, Target etc.  No explicit character generation means it can be marketed differently to parents then a RPG.

Yep.

Then when their kids get home and are on the internet printing out 48 pages of material on their folks inkjet printer, Mom and Dad will be wondering what the hell they just spent $20.00 on.

Quote from: mcbobbo;753483Ehhh.  I see the point, but there's still value in the Starter Set if...

A) Will Wheaton plays it on YouTube
B) It makes a good gift
C) Amazon ships it Prime
Etc

Fair point.  You're correct.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;753491Yep.

Then when their kids get home and are on the internet printing out 48 pages of material on their folks inkjet printer, Mom and Dad will be wondering what the hell they just spent $20.00 on.

True but that's a whole other kettle o fish. They likely have a Galaxy 3+or tablet so it's likely not as relevant as you make it out to be. Or they use a library/school/university computer.....

For example $14.40 gets you the full hardcopy at the public library sometimes half that. In a city with a university it's easy to get access to free printing so do it yourself. There are many ways to skin a cat and kids aren't oblivious to them.