Granted, this is probably going to be mostly from a nostalgic point of view, but when someone says "D&D art", what do you immediately think of?
I started in 1981 with Moldvay's basic set. So for me, some of that art I have a very special soft spot for, and I think it's "D&D" to me whenever I see it, or talk about D&D. It might not be the most technically proficient, but it just oozes the D&D experience. It's kind of weird how some illustrations stand out way more than others from the same publication. Specifically:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kzljpZJ1_J8/TJPGIazZQ5I/AAAAAAAAApg/vnoRTviywoE/s1600/willingham9.png)
(http://www.dorktower.com/files/2014/03/david-trampier-01-225x300.jpg)
(http://www.chrispramas.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/trampier-lizardman.jpg)
(http://dave.monkeymartian.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/roslofthekeepontheborderlands.jpg)
(http://www.enworld.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=61573&d=1399485786&thumb=1)
(http://thedelvers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/PlayersHandbookJeffEasley.jpg)
The picture that defined the game for me has always been "Emirikol the Chaotic." You can tell just from the image that Emirikol is indeed chaotic, and also a dick.
Early D&D - bad art. Like the superhero guy on the left, I mean yeah sure it is kind of punny, but really
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F3jYLxsq_6w/UEUAbgV6LMI/AAAAAAAAFww/eVDv-GrxNJc/s1600/barbarianfury.jpg)
Although I sort of like this guy despite or even because the art is bad.
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9098/ddelffd4.jpg)
Lately - way too many belts and spikey armor...or is that Pathfinder?
To be honest, I think the fantasy art that defined me as I grew up was more Warhammer and Fighting Fantasy than D&D. There is very little D&D stuff that I remember or even recognise. The exceptions are probably the various novel covers.
For nostalgia purposes:
Clyde Caldwell's covers for the Gazateers of the Known World setting.
Jeff Dee's interior illustrations.
Quote from: Saplatt;776779For nostalgia purposes:
Clyde Caldwell's covers for the Gazateers of the Known World setting.
Jeff Dee's interior illustrations.
Caldwell's cover of DL1 definitely goes up there for me.
It honestly doesn't mean too much to me. In fact, if it features "conspicuously badass" characters, I find it a bit of a turn off. Some WotC art has resembled super hero panels, which, for some reason, I just can't dig. Most of the time, though? Neutral. Doesn't matter at all.
I liked a lot of the art in the original books and what came later in AD&D and The Arduin Grimoire... though the stuff that looked like superhero comics never did much for me.
But when someone says 'D&D art' my mind goes straight to Larry Elmore... which I really dislike... along with most of the overblown 'cinematic' stuff that's come since.
The art that has inspired my gaming has come more from Heavy Metal, underground comics and video games.
Erol Otus, 'nuf said.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xQtHIltEYJU/Tm_J3b5mZ1I/AAAAAAAAA1M/eWKdzEvEZ1U/s1600/Theleb-Kaarna.jpg)
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/3fd46170a1a7092118f6a1a29473e22f/tumblr_mp26slvWzQ1qbqvrdo1_1280.jpg)
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a9/f1/3e/a9f13eb096ff5d363d6d478b97e73c30.jpg)
Personally it's Larry Elmore because he illustrated a lot of the Basic stuff I started with, did some Dragon covers, and of course Snarf Quest in the back pages of Dragon for a while. It's Bargle and Aleena and company when I picture D&D.
Oh, and those ads in comic books where they encounter green slime and a werewolf and whatever else there was...I always wished the story went further.
The vibe of a lot of it reminds me of the cover of Dio's The Last in Line:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/50/DioTheLastInLine.jpg)
One of my passions that I bitch about here a lot is how the old Sucky D&D artwork had folks getting all nostalgic.
Sutherland basically couldn't draw. His artwork annoys me because of the noslagia fanboys who praise it.
they made him art director and he continued to use his own illustrations.
The excuse is always TSR couldn't afford to get decent artists etc etc . The fact is they had decent artists Trampier, Otus and Dee for example. If you compare the artwork of Diety and Demigods to the stuff in the 3 core books the difference in quality is simply enormous.
Marley already posted the Otus Pantangian sorcerer I used on the other thread to illustrate that TSR had artists they could have used to produce professional work but there are numerous other examples.
when I started getting into D&D I had just watched the Bakshi LotT movie, my walls were covered in Boris and Frazetta posters, I read comics filled with illustrations by Brian Bolland, Carlos Ezquerra and Dave Gibbons and yet here in the holy grail of the hobby I would spend the next 35 years engaged with was artwork that was at best risible if not downright insulting.
The exception was Diety and Demigods why couldn't they have put Jeff Dee in charge of art at TSR....
So that is what early D&D art means to me... missed opportunity.
(http://i.imgur.com/U4AqDcd.jpg)
Diterlizzi's work for some reason. Never even played Planescape in tabletop form (video game was awesome though).
But I started with Fighting Fantasy, not D&D, so Russ Nicholson still holds the greatest aesthetic sway over me outside of JRPGs and Magic: The Gathering.
(http://muleabides.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/griffon_gate.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m72z8c1Aae1r2s3h9o1_500.jpg)
(http://redvan.wikidot.com/local--files/start/ErolOtus-RoguesGallery-03.jpg)
Something about monochrome fires my imagination.
It's nostalgia talking, but the two images that really sunk their teeth into my impressionable young mind was the Paladin in Hell in the AD&D PHB and the original Barbarian picture. When I was too young to really play with my dad's group, I'd sit and listen and flip through the books they were using.
I didn't much care for the badly drawn 'comedy' art that was in it, I also didn't like the cover of the original Monster Manual.
As another person noted, the art quality was very mismatched, probably just due to a lack of quality control. Hard to blame them at that point, however.
Diterlizzi is awesome but these days I'm more and more drawn to the art that looks like it was made by a woodcut.
Elmore did so many covers and other iconic images it's hard for me not to default to his work as my mental image for a great many settings.
I cant really put it into words, but this is D&D to me
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae62/Yourswordismine/elmore-dragon-slayers.jpg)
I don't think I've seen any other piece of artwork that comes close to capturing that feeling I get when looking at this piece.
There are other pieces by Elmore, Parkinson, and Caldwell that really sum up certain aspects of D&D, but the above by Elmore ties it all together.
I wish I could +1 YourSwordIsMine's post. :cheerleader:
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;776940I cant really put it into words, but this is D&D to me
I don't think I've seen any other piece of artwork that comes close to capturing that feeling I get when looking at this piece.
There are other pieces by Elmore, Parkinson, and Caldwell that really sum up certain aspects of D&D, but the above by Elmore ties it all together.
Not enough diversity.
;)
(http://i.imgur.com/yk0SCt4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CrPgQjT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/205zF1m.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rw86gDv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ygglJSS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/I1zulmu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/K2ZcyVB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tG05HmO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/wiRLcTc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/P8CBCUZ.jpg)
BX had a big influence on me personally and by coincidence was just going through my old portfolio and found this practice piece.
(http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2195444_lg.png)
Bemusingly the comics by Dee in various comic books was another point of interest in D&D art to me.
Dee, Willingham, Byrne, Golden and the original artist for Captain Canuck early on instilled in my a drive for very clean lines in art.
Jacques, Trampier, Wham and Pillsbury were other influences.
TSR was blessed with alot of great artists.
I am somewhat 50/50 on Otis' art. Some I like, some are meh. But I really enjoy his very organic style and usually clean lines.
Quote from: Raven;776974(http://i.imgur.com/ygglJSS.jpg)
Wow, hadn't seen this one before. One of the better Elmores to me personally. I especially like all the sharp contrasts of color/imagery going on and how angelic and vulnerable these particular heroes look. Not every delver is a gritty brooding badass (not that there's anything wrong with those either).
I don't really care about the art, I only notice it when it's shit. Like the "dungeonpunk" aesthetic that afflicted much of 3.x's run, or anything anime-style.
I'll confess that I hadn't put a lot of thought into D&D art until recently. I appreciated it, but didn't think about how each version of the game (and many campaign worlds) is (are) somewhat identified by a particular art style.
OD&D is full of B&W line art, as is much of the early AD&D. (Except for hardback book covers.)
Dark Sun is all Brom.
Dragonlance is Elmore.
3E gets into a sort-of anime look with spiky hair and such.
In fairness that pic is white as hell even for an Elmore painting.
The first thing that pops into my mind is the red box cover Elmore did.
God I loved the Deities and Demigods book as a child. "And visions of Cthulhu & Pyaray dance in their heads." That and Jeff Dee loves exposed thighs and ankle flares. Perhaps the only thing that really grabs me about Tunnels and Trolls to this day.
Also, there is never enough big hair, lush/plush, languorous, plunging vee contrasted with loincloth, oiled down, strain/sprain, USDA prime grade. Ever. AquaNet and Baby Oil comes with each adventurer's pack sold.
I hadn't realized how much I'd missed good art in a D&D rulebook until I saw the 5e PHB. It makes a huge difference to experience of reading the rulebook, to see art that evokes the imagery of the campaign.
A few years ago I answered that question (http://grognardia.blogspot.de/2010/09/open-friday-imagining-d.html) in a blog post, "The face of D&D" (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmondbuchstaben.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F09%2F20%2Fdas-gesicht-von-dd%2F&edit-text=).
(Beware - Google Translate gibberish...)
Jeff Dee and Erol Otus defined D&D for me in the early days of the hobby.
Quote from: Raven;776974(http://i.imgur.com/205zF1m.jpg)
"Oh, most corpulent Bill Clinton, we have brought you another bimbo intern to distract you from your wife!":D
Quote from: jeff37923;779937"Oh, most corpulent Bill Clinton, we have brought you another bimbo intern to distract you from your wife!"
Huh. Looks more like Newt Gingrich scoping out his next wife to me. Obviously art is very subjective.
A 20-year old political reference, that's the best caption you got?
Quote from: Bren;779947Huh. Looks more like Newt Gingrich scoping out his next wife to me. Obviously art is very subjective.
The great thing is that it can go either way!
Quote from: LibraryLass;779948A 20-year old political reference, that's the best caption you got?
I don't see you coming up with anything witty.
I have no nostalgia. D&D art is a set of illustrations designed to supplement the text as to describing the look and feel of the game world. It's there. It does it's job. It's over. This is a good thing. I feel the same about all game illustration, including my own. If it doesn't do this, it's a bad illustration, though it may be good art.
-clash
Quote from: jeff37923;779960I don't see you coming up with anything witty.
I don't see you coming up with anything witty, either.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;779966I don't see you coming up with anything witty, either.
Touche.
To me, D&D is Trampier (http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/2014/03/dave-trampier-rip.html) and Otus (http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/2011/09/in-praise-of-erol-otus.html).
Nothing else comes close.
But Dee, Willingham, Fabian, and a few others were quite good as well.
I was never a fan of Easley or Elmore (though there are a few pieces by them that are okay).
I've liked art from all 5 editions of D&D. I remember the Elmore art perhaps the most fondly, since that was my first exposure to D&D via the redbox.
While I didn't care for 4th edition that much, I really enjoyed the art- very colorful.
Quote from: jeff37923;779960The great thing is that it can go either way!
So can Orcus.
Quote from: RunningLaser;779978While I didn't care for 4th edition that much, I really enjoyed the art- very colorful.
Yeah, I like some of the 4E art better than anything since 1E. Not the core books, but the art in some settings books and adventures.
Quote from: Haffrung;779990Yeah, I like some of the 4E art better than anything since 1E. Not the core books, but the art in some settings books and adventures.
Which versions have the
way too many belts and leather bondage outfits and
the don't stand so close to me and my armor of many spikes? I think the spiky version was also the one with the swords the size of ironing boards.
Was one of those 4E?
Quote from: Bren;779997Which versions have the way too many belts and leather bondage outfits and the don't stand so close to me and my armor of many spikes? I think the spiky version was also the one with the swords the size of ironing boards.
Was one of those 4E?
That was 3.x
4e was the ACTION POSE!!1eleven art of Wayne Reynolds. Who is now the main artist for Pathfinder.
Quote from: Bren;779997Which versions have the way too many belts and leather bondage outfits and the don't stand so close to me and my armor of many spikes? I think the spiky version was also the one with the swords the size of ironing boards.
Was one of those 4E?
That was 3E. 4E has some cool stuff like:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4IzpXuf2ls0/TkXXpCt56WI/AAAAAAAAA-4/q0qqIp4eOdo/s1600/22+%25281%2529.jpg)
(http://castlesandcooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Fell-Court-by-Howard-Lyon.jpg)
Who is the artist on the second piece there? The Tieflings. It has a rather Parkinson feel to it.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine4e was the ACTION POSE!!1eleven art of Wayne Reynolds. Who is now the main artist for Pathfinder.
In my experience, 4e art produced more "That, I want to play that!" reactions from players than any other.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;780005That was 3.x
4e was the ACTION POSE!!1eleven art of Wayne Reynolds. Who is now the main artist for Pathfinder.
Quote from: Haffrung;780006That was 3E. 4E has some cool stuff like:
Ah, thanks. With the exception of a few pieces, I dislike the 3x/3E art. Those two 4E pieces are interesting, though they don't particularly excite my interest to play that. I'll have to surf about to look for some other 4E art.
The second piece looks like a Renaissance-style painting. Which is odd, but rather interesting. So the goat horned folk are Tieflings?
Hated 3e's MM art. ugh!
Aside from some anatomical or perspecta flubs. I actually like the art in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia.
Quote from: Omega;780020Hated 3e's MM art. ugh!
Most of it was pretty bad, but its beholder and chromatic dragons are iconic to me. (honestly chromatics that look different always seem... off to me. Like the dragon equivalent of the uncanny valley.)
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;780009Who is the artist on the second piece there? The Tieflings. It has a rather Parkinson feel to it.
I don't know.
Quote from: Bren;780016The second piece looks like a Renaissance-style painting. Which is odd, but rather interesting. So the goat horned folk are Tieflings?
Yes. I was reluctant to allow Tieflings in my game until I saw that picture.
Quote from: LibraryLass;780023Most of it was pretty bad, but its beholder and chromatic dragons are iconic to me. (honestly chromatics that look different always seem... off to me. Like the dragon equivalent of the uncanny valley.)
Dragons of diffrent breeds that all looked the same would feel off to me. And did feel off in the D&D movie. You couldnt tell the Reds from the Golds because they looked too simmilar, especially with the lighting.
Same for the Dragonlance dragons. They all look kinda the same.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;780009Who is the artist on the second piece there? The Tieflings. It has a rather Parkinson feel to it.
Howard Lyon I believe.
My D&D art confession: up until a couple of years ago (I guess around the time Diesel LaForce started redoing some of his classic work), I would have bet good money this (or more accurately, the original version of this) was an illustration of a web spell. Clearly, I would have lost that bet.
(http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/200H/i/2011/336/6/9/sleep_spell_by_diesellaforce-d4hzpre.jpg)
My D&D art confession: up until a couple of years ago (I guess around the time Diesel LaForce started redoing some of his classic work), I would have bet good money this (or more accurately, the original version of this) was an illustration of a web spell. Clearly, I would have lost that bet.
(http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/200H/i/2011/336/6/9/sleep_spell_by_diesellaforce-d4hzpre.jpg)
Quote from: Omega;780035Dragons of diffrent breeds that all looked the same would feel off to me. And did feel off in the D&D movie. You couldnt tell the Reds from the Golds because they looked too simmilar, especially with the lighting.
Same for the Dragonlance dragons. They all look kinda the same.
Different from the 3.x interpretations, I mean. Which were all different from each other. Crested white, forward-swept horns and short face black, tall-finned green, bulky blue with a big nose horn, finned red with spikes and horns.
You interpreted it exactly opposite from what I meant, I think.
In 4e they changed up the Green, but they're back to the way I'd expect them in 5e, at least if that Tiamat wallpaper from last month was any indication.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FYzKYF3y2GQ/U7dISgQVzqI/AAAAAAAAD9Q/OPHPYr3_1Uc/s1600/Tiamat5.jpg)
Edit: Actually, I just cracked open my 2e MM and they had more basic versions of the same designs even then, but I like the particular interpretations of them in 3e with the humans for scale.
Quote from: Omega;780035Dragons of diffrent breeds that all looked the same would feel off to me. And did feel off in the D&D movie. You couldnt tell the Reds from the Golds because they looked too simmilar, especially with the lighting.
Same for the Dragonlance dragons. They all look kinda the same.
No, I think you misunderstood me. Dragons that all look identical apart from color are definitely weird.
I mean like... the specific designs that they used from 3e onwards (which were really more like refined versions of the ones that were in 2e at least... I don't have my 1e MM on hand so I can't see if they have the same distinctive head shapes-- you know the drill, white dragons with a crest, black with short faces and forward-swept horns, etc.)
Edit: Here's the specific illustrations:
(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG78.jpg)
(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG71.jpg)
(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG75.jpg)
(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG72.jpg)
(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG76.jpg)
Quote from: LibraryLass;780092I don't have my 1e MM on hand so I can't see if they have the same distinctive head shapes . . .
They do.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;780107They do.
Thanks, Vulmea.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;780107They do.
some do. The black in 1e doesn't look anything like the one above. Neither do some of the others. I liked the variation in 1e the best. Greens were fat. The illustrations above?
They all look alike bodywise. Every single one is "look at my muscly muscles human!"
This is my favorite dragon pic of all time
(http://learningdm.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/dragons_despair.jpg)
Quote from: Sacrosanct;780127some do. The black in 1e doesn't look anything like the one above. Neither do some of the others. I liked the variation in 1e the best. Greens were fat. The illustrations above?
They all look alike bodywise. Every single one is "look at my muscly muscles human!"
I kinda have to disagree with you. I mean they've all got fairly powerful builds, yeah, but the white and blue are fairly bulky and stocky, whereas the black and red are lean and catlike, and the green is more tall and erect.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;780127some do.
The 1e black dragon has the short face and forward-projecting horns. The green dragon has the sail. The blue dragon has the horn on its snout. The white has the skull crest. The red is skull ridges.
I believe all these features carried forward.
Todd Lockwood of 3e fame (and the painter of the above dragons IIRC) drew the lounging Orcus of earlier pages.
So he and by extension his 3e art is Old School.
Quote from: Teazia;780187Todd Lockwood of 3e fame (and the painter of the above dragons IIRC) drew the lounging Orcus of earlier pages.
So he and by extension his 3e art is Old School.
Amusing. And by the same logic, this picture proves that Picasso's Cubism is actually reaistic protraiture.
(http://www.christies.com/%5Cimages%5Cpages_content_archive_NEW%5C%5C%5C2011%5C%5Cpicasso-fig-4.jpg);)
Quote from: Black Vulmea;780149The 1e black dragon has the short face and forward-projecting horns. The green dragon has the sail. The blue dragon has the horn on its snout. The white has the skull crest. The red is skull ridges.
I believe all these features carried forward.
Yeah pretty much the same description, although the exact way the forward facing black dragon horns are expressed is frequently different for example.
Man, one thing looking in MM brings back - remember when all the different dragon species had different chances to speak and cast spells?
Quote from: Bren;780016Ah, thanks. With the exception of a few pieces, I dislike the 3x/3E art. Those two 4E pieces are interesting, though they don't particularly excite my interest to play that. I'll have to surf about to look for some other 4E art.
The second piece looks like a Renaissance-style painting. Which is odd, but rather interesting. So the goat horned folk are Tieflings?
Yeah despite the fact of there being no single Demon or Devil bloodline that has specific goat horns like that, for some reason, all beings descended from the countless expressions of beings spread across two infinite planes have roughly the same horns. :D
Anybody remember the picture from either 2nd ed. PHB or maybe DMG with the priestess or sorceress in a sorta Arabian Nights outfit with outstretched arms performing some kind of magic ritual? I think she was blonde. That one always struck me and was evocative to me as I like that Arabian Nights/Harryhausen Sinbad/Arnold Schwarzenegger Conan sort of setting.
Anybody know what I'm referring to and which book it was from? I gave away all my 1st and 2nd ed. stuff circa 1998, I think, when I foolishly thought I was done with RPGs in general. (Oh, what it has cost me to reacquire some of the classics. My biggest regret is giving away my original Traveller boxed set. Still haven't been able to replace it.)
Quote from: Teazia;780187Todd Lockwood of 3e fame (and the painter of the above dragons IIRC) drew the lounging Orcus of earlier pages.
So he and by extension his 3e art is Old School.
Huh, didn't know that. Cool.
Quote from: CRKrueger;780232Yeah despite the fact of there being no single Demon or Devil bloodline that has specific goat horns like that, for some reason, all beings descended from the countless expressions of beings spread across two infinite planes have roughly the same horns. :D
Well, they do look a bit like Asmodeus.
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140109012238/villains/images/c/c7/Asmodeus_-_Eric_Deschamps.jpg)
Elmore, Easley, Brom and DiTerlizzi. That would be "my" D&D art.
Quote from: Matt;780235Anybody remember the picture from either 2nd ed. PHB or maybe DMG with the priestess or sorceress in a sorta Arabian Nights outfit with outstretched arms performing some kind of magic ritual? I think she was blonde. That one always struck me and was evocative to me as I like that Arabian Nights/Harryhausen Sinbad/Arnold Schwarzenegger Conan sort of setting.
Anybody know what I'm referring to and which book it was from? I gave away all my 1st and 2nd ed. stuff circa 1998, I think, when I foolishly thought I was done with RPGs in general. (Oh, what it has cost me to reacquire some of the classics. My biggest regret is giving away my original Traveller boxed set. Still haven't been able to replace it.)
2nd Ed. DMG, 1989 version, Chapter 7, p. 40
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;7802592nd Ed. DMG, 1989 version, Chapter 7, p. 40
You like that pic too, I see :D
(So do I, it's very D&D)
Quote from: Sacrosanct;780127This is my favorite dragon pic of all time
(http://learningdm.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/dragons_despair.jpg)
hhhmmm Goldmoons thighs...
wait... There is a dragon in that picture?!
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;7802592nd Ed. DMG, 1989 version, Chapter 7, p. 40
Was it not used in the other printing with the black-framed cover?
Quote from: Matt;780293Was it not used in the other printing with the black-framed cover?
I don't know; I've never owned a copy of that printing. But I remember the picture and happen to have a 2E DMG close at hand.
Quote from: Matt;780235Anybody remember the picture from either 2nd ed. PHB or maybe DMG with the priestess or sorceress in a sorta Arabian Nights outfit with outstretched arms performing some kind of magic ritual? I think she was blonde. That one always struck me and was evocative to me as I like that Arabian Nights/Harryhausen Sinbad/Arnold Schwarzenegger Conan sort of setting.
Anybody know what I'm referring to and which book it was from? I gave away all my 1st and 2nd ed. stuff circa 1998, I think, when I foolishly thought I was done with RPGs in general. (Oh, what it has cost me to reacquire some of the classics. My biggest regret is giving away my original Traveller boxed set. Still haven't been able to replace it.)
Clyde Caldwell
(http://i.imgur.com/gVZf5Ye.jpg?1)
That's actually pretty awesome. Aside from the 80s perm.
Quote from: Raven;780315Clyde Caldwell
(http://i.imgur.com/gVZf5Ye.jpg?1)
Yeah, that's the one that leaped out at me and fired imagination back in '89 (I would have though it was later when 2nd ed. came out!). I still dig it. Makes me want to play AD&D again. I can just see her teaming up with a scimitar-wielding Sinbad type to save the caliphate.
And the "'80s perm" is what makes it! Love the boots, too. Such a practical concession given the rest of her attire--aside from the heels, I guess.
Quote from: Raven;780315Clyde Caldwell
(http://i.imgur.com/gVZf5Ye.jpg?1)
She'd be a "bikini witch" nowadays, right?
Quote from: Nexus;780399She'd be a "bikini witch" nowadays, right?
If you think her pose is sexualized she's a bikini witch I guess. Who the fuck knows or cares? It depends on your sexual politics stance more than anything. I just hope she's on my side, because she's about to put those heels up someone's ass.
I'm not familiar with the term "bikini witch." But I don't follow much RPG stuff so a lot of the jargon escapes me. I just play the games when I get the time/opportunity to do so. I also managed to miss all D&D editions post-1989, apparently. (And really have zero interest in them so the hoopla over a 5th edition boggles my mind.)
Quote from: CRKrueger;780401If you think her pose is sexualized she's a bikini witch I guess. Who the fuck knows or cares? It depends on your sexual politics stance more than anything. I just hope she's on my side, because she's about to put those heels up someone's ass.
In my imagination she uses her looks and sexuality as additional weapons in her arsenal. I just found it to be a striking image that stirred my imagination.
Quote from: CRKrueger;780401If you think her pose is sexualized she's a bikini witch I guess. Who the fuck knows or cares? It depends on your sexual politics stance more than anything. I just hope she's on my side, because she's about to put those heels up someone's ass.
The boots are stupid though.
Arabian nights style bikini costume Hmm I think I need to pair that with a pair of 1980s knee high patent black leather boots with stilleto heels ... becuase um ....
Quote from: Matt;780235Anybody remember the picture from either 2nd ed. PHB or maybe DMG with the priestess or sorceress in a sorta Arabian Nights outfit with outstretched arms performing some kind of magic ritual? I think she was blonde. That one always struck me and was evocative to me as I like that Arabian Nights/Harryhausen Sinbad/Arnold Schwarzenegger Conan sort of setting.
This one?
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0149/6074/files/DMG_2nd_Edition_Sorceress_large.jpg?515)
Quote from: jibbajibba;780418The boots are stupid though.
Arabian nights style bikini costume Hmm I think I need to pair that with a pair of 1980s knee high patent black leather boots with stilleto heels ... becuase um ....
Since when did you need a reason for knee-high, patent black leather boots w/ stiletto heels?
Quote from: Opaopajr;780449Since when did you need a reason for knee-high, patent black leather boots w/ stiletto heels?
with a bikini... i would look ridiculous
Quote from: jibbajibba;780418The boots are stupid though.
Arabian nights style bikini costume Hmm I think I need to pair that with a pair of 1980s knee high patent black leather boots with stilleto heels ... becuase um ....
Yeah, I dislike D&D illustrations where you can tell by subject's hair and clothes exactly when it was drawn.
Quote from: CRKrueger;780401If you think her pose is sexualized she's a bikini witch I guess. Who the fuck knows or cares?
I was curious because I'm not sure what exactly the term means. It's not as self explanatory as "Chainmail bikini" but I assume its essentially the equivalent for the depiction of a non "warrior" character in in scant revealing clothing.
As far as the picture is concerned, I think its well done and yes, the woman depicted is attractive and sexy but "sexualized" as far as I understand the term. It doesn't seem to be intended solely for titillation. But there's nothing wrong with it in any case (disagreement over the boots notwithstanding).
Quote from: jibbajibba;780457with a bikini... i would look ridiculous
Well, perhaps you don't cut a flattering figure in patent leather. It's not for everyone. Some people prefer matte to the gloss.
Quote from: jibbajibba;776899One of my passions that I bitch about here a lot is how the old Sucky D&D artwork had folks getting all nostalgic.
So that is what early D&D art means to me... missed opportunity.
I'm very much in agreement with this. Early D&D lost many potential influential fans by their insistence on using juvenile art when there were many better fantasy artists around that could have provided truly inspirational art.
One of the first reasons I was positively inclined towards Rolemaster and Iron Crown Enterprises was the splendid artwork for the Middle Earth Roleplaying. Same deal with Runequest. The art was much better.
I did like Clyde Caldwell though. The creature illustrations for the original Fiend Folio was pretty awesome.
Quote from: jibbajibba;780418The boots are stupid though.
Arabian nights style bikini costume Hmm I think I need to pair that with a pair of 1980s knee high patent black leather boots with stilleto heels ... becuase um ....
Have you ever walked through the wilderness in a bikini? Youd buy some long boots too ASAP! Though I'd get thicker heels for stomping on the rat swarms...
Quote from: Omega;780478Have you ever walked through the wilderness in a bikini? Youd buy some long boots too ASAP! Though I'd get thicker heels for stomping on the rat swarms...
Technically, we don't know that's what the character wears when "adventuring". She performing some kind of magical rite. For all we know we know she's going on a date afterward not a fighting monsters. Context matters :D
Quote from: GameDaddy;780468One of the first reasons I was positively inclined towards Rolemaster and Iron Crown Enterprises was the splendid artwork for the Middle Earth Roleplaying. Same deal with Runequest. The art was much better.
ICE had Angus McBride in their arsenal and wasn't afraid to use him. That guy's artwork was genius.
Quote from: Nexus;780490Technically, we don't know that's what the character wears when "adventuring". She performing some kind of magical rite. For all we know we know she's going on a date afterward not a fighting monsters. Context matters :D
How do we know she wasn't conjuring up her date?
Quote from: jeff37923;780524How do we know she wasn't conjuring up her date?
True. It's not a man so that's okay.
Quote from: Nexus;780490Technically, we don't know that's what the character wears when "adventuring". She performing some kind of magical rite. For all we know we know she's going on a date afterward not a fighting monsters. Context matters :D
You are correct. It could lead into that Orcus pic.
"er... wait. This isn't the sort of hot date I expected..."
Quote from: Omega;780526You are correct. It could lead into that Orcus pic.
"er... wait. This isn't the sort of hot date I expected..."
"But our dating profiles match so perfectly, right down to our love of Tom Otterness sculpture parks and mangosteen juice!"
Quote from: jeff37923;780523ICE had Angus McBride in their arsenal and wasn't afraid to use him. That guy's artwork was genius.
He was a genius. Was TSR just cheap?
Quote from: CRKrueger;780401I just hope she's on my side, because she's about to put those heels up someone's ass.
Actually, she's not. At least, only in your private fantasy.
Quote from: Haffrung;780555He was a genius. Was TSR just cheap?
I don't know what the story was behind that. Interesting to find out, though.
Quote from: Haffrung;780555He was a genius. Was TSR just cheap?
TSR had alot of top line artists working for them.
But several companies tried to maintain an in house stable of artists who worked for them and only them. A few like Games Workshop had, and I believe still have some pretty draconian lockdowns on artists. Apparently White Wolf was too in some odd way?
The 90s seemed to be the breakaway era when artists freelanced between companies alot more.
Quote from: Haffrung;780555He was a genius. Was TSR just cheap?
I don't know if I would call TSR cheap. Most of the art that people point to as being bad was all pre 1980 stuff, before the money really started rolling in (before the revenue from AD&D started really making an impact.) So I imagine they were on quite the budget for that early stuff.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;780603I don't know if I would call TSR cheap. Most of the art that people point to as being bad was all pre 1980 stuff, before the money really started rolling in (before the revenue from AD&D started really making an impact.) So I imagine they were on quite the budget for that early stuff.
As far as the original game, good art was not a feature of wargame rules in the 1970s.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;780603I don't know if I would call TSR cheap. Most of the art that people point to as being bad was all pre 1980 stuff, before the money really started rolling in (before the revenue from AD&D started really making an impact.) So I imagine they were on quite the budget for that early stuff.
And before the James Dallas Egbert case made the game a media sensation and fad, too.
Meanwhile, Angus McBride's Characters of Middle Earth remains a treasured possession from my MERP/RM2 days. :D
Quote from: Sacrosanct;780603I don't know if I would call TSR cheap. Most of the art that people point to as being bad was all pre 1980 stuff, before the money really started rolling in (before the revenue from AD&D started really making an impact.) So I imagine they were on quite the budget for that early stuff.
...but they did have good artists, Jeff Dee was working for them when he was 18 in the 70s and they had Otus et al. I am sure that they could have tapped up a few other art school kids that Dee knew as well who would work for very little.
As I said up post Deity and Demigods has really solid artwork all the way through it and that was put together in what '80?
Quote from: jibbajibba;780632...but they did have good artists, Jeff Dee was working for them when he was 18 in the 70s and they had Otus et al. I am sure that they could have tapped up a few other art school kids that Dee knew as well who would work for very little.
As I said up post Deity and Demigods has really solid artwork all the way through it and that was put together in what '80?
"D .80" seems to be the turning point. Man that dude put out a lot of art that year. But TSR was putting out a ton of stuff around that time. I imagine the artists were tapped to the max so they had others do some work. When people point out bad art, they're usually pointing to something Sutherland did, and I don't recall much of his work after the first 3 core books in the 70s.
And then they went crappy art again with Rules Cyclopedia. Ugh, that stuff looks really amateurish.
The more I think about it, the more I believe that I would have trouble envisioning the Dark Sun setting without Brom's artwork. Just look at the pic of the Belgoi below and see how evocative it is of life on Athas.
(http://leelaughead.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/brom_dark_sun_belgoi.jpg)
Quote from: jeff37923;780639The more I think about it, the more I believe that I would have trouble envisioning the Dark Sun setting without Brom's artwork. Just look at the pic of the Belgoi below and see how evocative it is of life on Athas.
Your image wouldnt load. This the one?
(http://dungeonsmaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/brom-01.jpg)
The interior art by Baxa on the other hand... ugh. One of the few artists Im not a fan of.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;780633"D .80" seems to be the turning point. Man that dude put out a lot of art that year. But TSR was putting out a ton of stuff around that time. I imagine the artists were tapped to the max so they had others do some work. When people point out bad art, they're usually pointing to something Sutherland did, and I don't recall much of his work after the first 3 core books in the 70s.
And then they went crappy art again with Rules Cyclopedia. Ugh, that stuff looks really amateurish.
Actually I like a couple of the pieces in the RC.
But a lot of it does suck.
Quote from: Omega;780650Your image wouldnt load. This the one?
That's the one. Thank you.
Quote from: Omega;780650The interior art by Baxa on the other hand... ugh. One of the few artists Im not a fan of.
Yeah, that stuff just left me cold.
Quote from: jeff37923;780523ICE had Angus McBride in their arsenal and wasn't afraid to use him. That guy's artwork was genius.
He was also a frequent illustrator for Osprey's militaria books. Great artist.
Quote from: jibbajibba;780632...but they did have good artists, Jeff Dee was working for them when he was 18 in the 70s and they had Otus et al. I am sure that they could have tapped up a few other art school kids that Dee knew as well who would work for very little.
Otus as an example of good art? If you say so.
Quote from: Matt;780719Otus as an example of good art? If you say so.
I like some of his art. And some I dont. His paintings tend to be very good. Its his BW art thats all over the place.
This though is pretty common. I know a few professional artists whos art only shines when they actually paint or colour it.
Quote from: Matt;780719Otus as an example of good art? If you say so.
I thought it was excellent. His unique style brought a creepiness to D&D that was really, really good.
One artist I'd have liked to have seen do a D&D book illustration is Richard Corben. His cover for Beyond the supernatural and a few of the Fighting Fantasy books is about all I can think of him doing in the RPG/game realm?
Quote from: Omega;780753One artist I'd have liked to have seen do a D&D book illustration is Richard Corben. His cover for Beyond the supernatural and a few of the Fighting Fantasy books is about all I can think of him doing in the RPG/game realm?
Weird. On Saturday night one of my buddies was flipping through the new PHB, commenting favourably on the art, when he said:
"It's too back they didn't have Richard Corben do some of the art. I always loved the Den comic in Heavy Metal."
The early 80s were a great time for sword and sorcery artwork. Heavy Metal and Epic were full of the stuff. For my tastes, it's too bad TSR went with a different (more tame) look for D&D.