Quote from: CRKrueger;803659Moldvay Basic

No matter how much people want it to be, 5e's Starter Box you buy, Basic pdf you download doesn't beat Moldvay for ease of use and above all, DM explanation and advice.

Yes. Ease of use and clear, concise language and easy-to-read layout.

I love 5e but the Starter was a misfire. Way too dense and cluttered.

Quote from: RPGPundit;805264Well, to each their own, but it seems to me that some people are thinking more in terms of nostalgia than anything.  The starter set lets you literally pick up the character sheets and start playing almost immediately.
There's no better way to learn how to play than to start playing.

Q: When does play start?
A: at character generation. The last time I checked, B/X handles that pretty well.
Nastolgia, lol, wtf, is this 2008?

It will be years before 5e has the level of support B/X does- if it ever gets there at all.

Quote from: RandallS;803601Microlite81 (and Microlite74) aren't designed for people new to RPGs. They assume you already know the basics of how to play and do not explain anything about how to create a dungeon or a starting area. I really don't recommend them for total newbies.  B/X (and BECMI for that matter) has lots of great advice for GMs. And unlike most other versions of D&D, it fast tracks DMing. No need to create an adventure or worry too much about "designing encounters". All a new GM has to do is draw up a dungeon, populate it randomly and start to play.

Agreed. I was thinking there was a player there to teach how to play.

But since I have you he, RS, I was wondering about the role of the mental combat bonus in M81.  Wasn't sure how to apply it for most classes. I had thought both it and PCB might be useful in an alternative save system that delineates a physical and mental save, but I like the single save number, so I never bothered with it. So, what DO I use MCB for in M81?

P.S. I really appreciate the work you put into it. That's about the time I really got into D&D.

Quote from: Phillip;805458As an aside, how does the 5e PHB stand on its own for a dm experienced with previous editions?

Fine, the heart of the various mechanics is d20 roll high versus a target. 5e shares this with 3e and 4e. However it presented, especially the basic rules, like the best OSR rulesets. Short, to the point, and with the minimum of mechanics to get the job done.

The full game is in the basic rules, what missing are the options and expanded lists (like more spells, items, monsters, etc).

It doesn't play like 4e during combat. It more like classic D&D in the tempo of combat. However if you use the RAW rules then characters bounce back quickly between combats.

Quote from: Phillip;805458As an aside, how does the 5e PHB stand on its own for a dm experienced with previous editions?

Pretty damn well good really. The PHB has about all you need to bet up and running if you grab the monster PDF or dont mind alot of people-vs-people conflict and not much for monsters. The back of the book does have stats for Skeletons and Zombies though.

On the question of the 5e Starter Set vs Moldvay Basic, I think the question largely depends on where you see "play" as beginning, and how far you want the game to hold the group's hands.

If you see play as beginning with people actually doing things with their characters, then it's the Starter Set.  A thin booklet to give you an idea of the rules, some pregens, and then a sandboxy campaign to last them until level 5.

If you see play as beginning with each player making their very own character that's all theirs, then it's Moldvay all the way.  Simple chargen rules, and one level of a sample dungeon.

Beyond that, each has weaknesses.  For the Starter Set, making the jump from pre-gens to one's own character is a substantial one.  Not too big, necessarily, but certain substantial, given the number of moving parts.  You have to choose the method of ability score generation, race, class, spells, and equipment packages.  The chargen section of the Basic Rules alone is 55 printed pages.

With Moldvay, the character generation is a snap.  But here the jump is on the DM's side.  The sample dungeon is tiny, and there's really not that much help for the DM on how to expand from there.  (When I used it to first start out, I couldn't make any sense of how I was supposed to use the cross-section map of the dungeon included under the map for Level 1.)  The other consideration is that Moldvay pretty much locks you into the exploration mode of play.  Which is fine, but it doesn't really help the DM expand into other modes of play.

Personally, I think you're rolling the dice either way if you just give a group some rules and hope they take to it on their own.  With Moldvay, it's a 2-in-6 chance on a d6 that they'll pick it up.  With the Starter Set, it's a DC 14 check.

I chose to give her copies of Moldvay Basic and Expert books, and the modules The Caves of Chaos, Palace of the Silver Princess, and The Isle of Dread. This way I can giver her the tools she needs to learn the basics of being a DM and being a Player on her own with her kids. I or her usual DM can give her advice and answer questions when needed, but this gets the ball rolling.

Once it comes in, I will give her a copy of the Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game.

Quote from: jeff37923;805538I chose to give her copies of Moldvay Basic and Expert books, and the modules The Caves of Chaos, Palace of the Silver Princess, and The Isle of Dread.

Solid.

Quote from: Iosue;805535On the question of the 5e Starter Set vs Moldvay Basic, I think the question largely depends on where you see "play" as beginning, and how far you want the game to hold the group's hands.

If you see play as beginning with people actually doing things with their characters, then it's the Starter Set.  A thin booklet to give you an idea of the rules, some pregens, and then a sandboxy campaign to last them until level 5.

If you see play as beginning with each player making their very own character that's all theirs, then it's Moldvay all the way.  Simple chargen rules, and one level of a sample dungeon.

I agree with this as well.  For some, chargen is akin to setting up the board in monopoly--more prep work than actual play.  For others, chargen is a big part of the game itself.

Last night my son had his first PC death (got eaten by sharks).  He's relatively new to RPGs, and he picked up one of the pregens and they way they were structured (with up to level 5 info on the back) was great.  It allowed him to pick up and play immediately, without needing to get familiar with the rules for that class (it was a cleric) first.

Quote from: jeff37923;804752I picked up the Starter Set to see if it could do the same job as Moldvay B/X and I have to disagree with you here. It really is not very newbie friendly

Well this Pundit character was on the payroll for 5th Ed. If this were a jury pool selection he'd be right out.

Quote from: Matt;806289Well this Pundit character was on the payroll for 5th Ed. If this were a jury pool selection he'd be right out.

I could certainly be accused of bias, it's true.  But I had little or nothing to do with the particular choices that I think make the starter set really great to run from the get go, where beginners can get right into the action and learn by playing.