O popcorn smiley, where art thou?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1007979So what your saying is that there IS a 'Bad Wrong Fun' way to play?  Right, moving on.

What does that have to do with what I said? There is literally no connection. I wasn't even commenting on ways of playing. I'm genuinely perplexed on how you got to that from what I said.

Oh, and did you miss where I said you were right (that is, if the Grognards came to 'tell me I'm doing it wrong')?

Well, I am of the opinion that hoarding power widgets are mostly a disincentive, ending up with a focus on the character sheet over the setting, so...   I feel the longer in the danger zone builds a sense of cautious respect for the world's coherency. It's also the reason I *never* use 0th lvl townies. (When anyone you deal with could be at your level or higher, suddenly setting respect is everywhere! )

I like my campaigns like Phantasy Star Online's tagline, "You're not the only hero." And I add, "You're merely the hero of immediate convenience." Inherent power is nothing, *choosing* to do daring deeds is everything. You have the GM's full attention, go forth and make interesting choices.

Given that the stated design intent was that level 1-3 progress rapidly and level 1 being the new level 0 I'm fine with it.  It's also nice for those of us who can't play every week anymore -- you can still progress at a decent pace at 1 game per month.

Quote from: KingCheops;1007997Given that the stated design intent was that level 1-3 progress rapidly and level 1 being the new level 0 I'm fine with it.  It's also nice for those of us who can't play every week anymore -- you can still progress at a decent pace at 1 game per month.

Do you think 5e is too slow 5-10 then? 8-10 especially can be quite slow I think.

Quote from: S'mon;1008002Do you think 5e is too slow 5-10 then? 8-10 especially can be quite slow I think.

I am feeling that way yes.  Honestly the last time I got through those levels I was playing more frequently.  Now that I'm starting to hit those levels with less frequent play times we're looking at like a year just to get through 3 levels.

Edit:  I know AngryDM isn't always popular around here but back at the start of his (seemingly aborted megadungeon) he crunched the numbers on levels.  You can find it further down in this post:

http://theangrygm.com/welcome-to-the-megadungeon-how-to-award-xp/

Quote from: S'mon;1008002Do you think 5e is too slow 5-10 then? 8-10 especially can be quite slow I think.

I'm finding it distinctly erratic, though maybe that's the players?  Cautious players in a mostly sandbox that occasionally go run amuck.  The result in levels 5 to 10 (well, 5 to 9 so far) being plod 1/10th of a level, another 1/10th of a level, and then suddenly, bang, half or 3/4 in a session.  Admittedly, I still don't know how we avoided a TPK when they hit that fast groove going from 8 to 9.  It's been consistently inconsistent since they reached 4th.

Edit:  Note that "session" for this group is 7-9 hours play.

I've had my players at level 5 for like a year now, just by experience gain.

Quote from: KingCheops;1008006Edit:  I know AngryDM isn't always popular around here but back at the start of his (seemingly aborted megadungeon) he crunched the numbers on levels.  You can find it further down in this post:

http://theangrygm.com/welcome-to-the-megadungeon-how-to-award-xp/

Angry is a good examplar of why it's important not to pre-plot stuff like XP awards - unless you're designing a linear Adventure Path. His applying AP thinking to a sandbox campaign is truly weird.

The great thing about sandbox campaigns is they are not pre-plotted and the players have a lot of choice what threats they face. Sometimes player mistakes make better stories than when they get it right, like when a group of mine decided they were level 4 now, they were hot stuff and could take on the local BBEG (a Princess of the Black Sun) - this turned out to be a horrible mistake, but that kind of thing makes for a much stronger campaign than carefully tailored encounters.

In my new campaign I decided to go Full Gygax with xp for gp, allotted at the end of the session once the PCs have returned to home base. I'm even allowing the trick whereby the players can allocate XP themselves via treasure division. I'm reducing monster xp to 0.2 and encouraging avoidance of pointless fights.

It's pretty clear 1st level characters in 5e is supposed to be a quick level--the published adventures seemed to all say "they should be second level after this", with "this" being perhaps 2 fights.

Thing is, monsters hit much harder and more often relative to earlier versions of D&D. Even a pair of kobolds has a decent chance of taking down a 1st level fighter in one round, without even scoring a critical. Rather than fix the "high dex monsters now deal lots of damage" issue, WotC put a band-aid on it, for good or ill, by just moving characters past the "really low hit points" stage quickly

I remember when Dark Sun came out and started PCs at 3rd level. THAT was revelation for our group. I'd already been starting campaigns at higher levels, but everyone considered it heresy and surely a sign of my Chaotic, perhaps Infernal nature. But when DS came out, it was TSR's permission to ignore the lower levels and jump into the game.

I'm cool with PCs getting to level 2 in one session, but I certainly don't think it has to be a requirement. It's OK with me if it takes two sessions or even three. It should entirely depend on the way the sessions play out.

For 5e specifically, I prefer the lower level play. I'd say the sweet spot is around levels 3-7. Level 1 has a special place though in 5e, it's really the most dangerous part of the whole game, as 5e quickly becomes very survivable/hard to die. It's a shame to skip over that danger too quickly imo. I reckon getting to 2nd should take an adventure.

Quote from: Psikerlord;1008502For 5e specifically, I prefer the lower level play. I'd say the sweet spot is around levels 3-7. Level 1 has a special place though in 5e, it's really the most dangerous part of the whole game, as 5e quickly becomes very survivable/hard to die. It's a shame to skip over that danger too quickly imo. I reckon getting to 2nd should take an adventure.

If you let level 1 go on that long, do you let the players die at level 1 or fudge it so they survive unless they do something real stupid?

It REALLY depends on the players. A group that avoids combat and doesnt do alot will level glacially untill they do something significant.

Rinning Hoard of the Dragon Queen I believe it took the group about a session and a half to hit level 2, and another session and a half to hit level 3. It took them a little over a year to hit level 10. Just about 50 sessions.