Quote from: Shipyard Locked;767462Oh of course, I'm well aware of that nitpicking nonsense, it's the stuff that fandom crybaby drama is built on unfortunately (and the reason I try to stay away from other fans of anything other than tabletop now). I'm looking for serious issues that would kill it, stuff on par with 7th Sea's subtle but lethal core flaws.

   Or the way that you could reportedly break 3.5 in two easy steps?
   1. Write down Class: Druid
   2. Pick Natural Spell as a feat

  It can take a while for this stuff to get sorted out and discovered, and it usually requires a mix of careful analysis and actual play reports to shake out the real problems; remember, the initial fears at the 3E and 3.5 launches were that the monk and the mystic theurge were overpowered.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;767666I was going to do a comparison between a level 20 3.x fighter and a level 20 5e fighter, but when I looked at all the crap involved in creating a level 20 3.e fighter, I said "fuck this".  Way too much work.

Heh. I have said that quite a few times when I was running 3x campaigns.
Too much freakin' work.
On some level I do appreciate all the widgets, but ultimately, I just want to play the game, not play the mechanics.

Quote from: Bill;767805Heh. I have said that quite a few times when I was running 3x campaigns.
Too much freakin' work.
On some level I do appreciate all the widgets, but ultimately, I just want to play the game, not play the mechanics.

Yep.  At first I was like, "OK, +20/+15/+10/+5, then add +5 for ability bonus, that's not too bad.  +5 for another magic weapon?  THat's not too hard either.  Wait, what?  I've got to add and total all the bonuses as well for these half dozen feat chains?  Fuck it.  I ain't gonna look that up."

And really, I don't need to, because even without all those feats (3 different levels of weapon spec, dual wielding, and power attack/cleave/great cleave), you're still looking at +30 attack modifiers.  blech.

But without looking up each one, I suppose this gives a comparison:

3e factors that are added to attack roll:
BAB
Ability MOD
magic weapon
feat 1
feat 2
feat 2
feat 3
feat 4
feat 5
feat 6
feat 7
feat 8
feat 9
feat 10

5e factors
Prof bonus
Ability Mod
Weapon Mod

and that's it.  There are no feats in 5e that add a bonus to hit.  Nor do I think there will be, by design.  They all give other benefits.

Yes, I am a fan of bounded accuracy

Quote from: Sacrosanct;767817Yep.  At first I was like, "OK, +20/+15/+10/+5, then add +5 for ability bonus, that's not too bad.  +5 for another magic weapon?  THat's not too hard either.  Wait, what?  I've got to add and total all the bonuses as well for these half dozen feat chains?  Fuck it.  I ain't gonna look that up."

And really, I don't need to, because even without all those feats (3 different levels of weapon spec, dual wielding, and power attack/cleave/great cleave), you're still looking at +30 attack modifiers.  blech.

But without looking up each one, I suppose this gives a comparison:

3e factors that are added to attack roll:
BAB
Ability MOD
magic weapon
feat 1
feat 2
feat 2
feat 3
feat 4
feat 5
feat 6
feat 7
feat 8
feat 9
feat 10

5e factors
Prof bonus
Ability Mod
Weapon Mod

and that's it.  There are no feats in 5e that add a bonus to hit.  Nor do I think there will be, by design.  They all give other benefits.

Yes, I am a fan of bounded accuracy

I am a fan of bounded accuracy as well. I would call it 'Bounded numbers so your game system does not form Voltron'

I'm curious what systems the DMG will bring to the table we can snap on. I really like the idea of optional combat mechanics I can allow/not allow at my table.

Like I'm cool with movement rules, but not so happy about advanced facing/AoO crap.

Shorter down time/level ups are great (I go pulpy games), but item creation is nerfed to hell.

The idea of D&D as a tool kit (if not out right generic) sounds...deliciously useful. It's very much the OSR idea with pick what you like and don't like as a GM.

Wonder if I can have a GM variant sheet in my pitches to players.

The numbers on the character sheet are lower and come from fewer sources, but what I noticed running it was that we had never to RECALCULATE THE NUMBERS.  The classic RPG past-time of adding and subtracting various situational modifiers each turn and each attack is gone, and it is sooo nice especially with new gamers who are just trying to find the weapon entry on their sheet.
This is due to the Advantage/Disadvantage rule (roll 2d20, take higher or lower respectively).  Also spells like Bless add a 1d4 to each roll rather than recalculate the to hit roll.  It's really nice at the table.

Quote from: Durn;768936The numbers on the character sheet are lower and come from fewer sources, but what I noticed running it was that we had never to RECALCULATE THE NUMBERS.  The classic RPG past-time of adding and subtracting various situational modifiers each turn and each attack is gone, and it is sooo nice especially with new gamers who are just trying to find the weapon entry on their sheet.
This is due to the Advantage/Disadvantage rule (roll 2d20, take higher or lower respectively).  Also spells like Bless add a 1d4 to each roll rather than recalculate the to hit roll.  It's really nice at the table.

It was obvious from the playtest that Advantage /disadvantage was an awesome rule . I stole it immediately and have bene using in in my homebrew for nearly a year. As I use 2d10 v trarget as a base mechanic I actually usestacked ad/disad upto +/-3 . When a guy hits or better yet gets a crit on a roll with 3 disads its a moment to behold

When the game was in the early stages of design, there was a lot of insecurity about advantage/disadvantage: whether to just use advantage, to use both, how much to use them, how much should be done with more conventional "+2/+4/-1/-2 etc." type bonuses and penalties.

I took one look at that rule and said "This. This is your Killer App."  I think it will be the most important thing that people will see about 5e to distinguish it in a good way from any other edition.

Quote from: RPGPundit;771352When the game was in the early stages of design, there was a lot of insecurity about advantage/disadvantage: whether to just use advantage, to use both, how much to use them, how much should be done with more conventional "+2/+4/-1/-2 etc." type bonuses and penalties.

I took one look at that rule and said "This. This is your Killer App."  I think it will be the most important thing that people will see about 5e to distinguish it in a good way from any other edition.

I think you're right.

2E is tied up with THAC0 (even though it first appeared elsewhere, BECMI or 1E UA, not sure).

3E has d20 and roll high.

4E has the tight map combat integration et al.

5E? Adv/Disadv and bounded accuracy.

Quote from: RPGPundit;771352I took one look at that rule and said "This. This is your Killer App."  I think it will be the most important thing that people will see about 5e to distinguish it in a good way from any other edition.

Hell, I'm looking at Fate and contemplating grafting Inspiration and Ads/Disads to it.

That... is a big thing.

Quote from: RPGPundit;771352When the game was in the early stages of design, there was a lot of insecurity about advantage/disadvantage: whether to just use advantage, to use both, how much to use them, how much should be done with more conventional "+2/+4/-1/-2 etc." type bonuses and penalties.

I took one look at that rule and said "This. This is your Killer App."  I think it will be the most important thing that people will see about 5e to distinguish it in a good way from any other edition.

You do know you're an asshat? And would hate my version of Dnd? But you're dead on about advantage/disadvantage. It's a game changer full stop. It lets me play Dnd without going to Savage Worlds, Castles and Crusades, some OSR derivatives or just go Onyx Path and say" fuck it".

I say the above because I'm playing it RAW and it's FUN.

Yet I get banned at TBP for 3 days because I quoted a wall of bullshit and said it was relavent to my one line response and their reason is....I had a thread ban and a 1 day ban combined with a 7 day ban which caused me to find this place 2 years ago? Get real. All they want is a 4e echo chamber and theorycraft haven... just ask Polaris.

I don't know what the fuck's in the water at TBP lately, but the last, oh, month has been a string of BAN ALL THE PEOPLES.

Critical mass, maybe.

103 pages bitching about "boring" fighters. Shoes fit the players I guess.

Quote from: cranebump;771589103 pages bitching about "boring" fighters. Shoes fit the players I guess.

There are no boring fighters.  There are only boring players.


But we already knew that.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;771602There are no boring fighters.  There are only boring players.


But we already knew that.

+1,000.  If you need a manual to codify everything, the player is selling his imagination short.  Or admitting he has none.