Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWhich would suggest inquiry into the mechanics and/or the production values.

Buying something because it's "the Thing" without care for its content or quality strikes me as foolish.  I want to know why someone would do such a thing.

!i!

Why would a designer of MP3 players still buy the next iPod?  Even if he doesn't like the product, or prefers his own design, or whatever, it's still helpful to look at what the iPod does well.  It may even seed ideas back into our designer's head for his own model.

And I would repeat, that CWR is a review author, which sort of means he's usually the guy who reads this stuff first, and tells everyone else if it's good.

I think you're limiting your mindset by only looking at this purely from the perspective of an internet savvy consumer and nothing more.

Quote from: C.W.RichesonWhenever D&D 4 is released, whoever it is released by, I will buy it.  I wont even inquire into the mechanics or production values or anything, I'll just pick it up.

What he said.  If there is one game I can be sure will always be good (enough to be worth it), it's D&D.

Now if I can speculate.  WotC hasn't actually said, "there won't be a 4th ed. till 2009 or later", what they have said is (paraphrased), "we have a lot of good (3.5) products planned through 2008".  To me, that means it wouldn't be inconceivable to have 4th ed announced at this years Gen Con for release at Gen Con 2008.

Furthermore, I think it would be the best edition of D&D yet.  Why?  Because of the definite trend of RPGs to be more user friendly, concise and more streamlined while remaining comprehensive (I credit Savage Worlds for starting the trend, and think Star Wars Saga will introduce the concept to the greater RPG community), and less work for the GM to make and run adventures.  All the changes I'm seeing so far in Star Wars Saga would greatly benefit D&D (IMHO).

On top of it, that's how a RPG stays fresh these days...with revisions.  Sure people bitch about them, but they also buy them.

I'll probably pick it up.  It's unlikely that I'll play it but I'm interested in it as the "state of the art" of the industry.  I'm not sure how well one can talk about role-playing games in general without a least a passing familiarity with the latest rev of D&D.

Sure. Heck, if it combines the robustness of 3E and the simplicity of B/XD&D, I'll buy it twice.

I'm really liking the developments in the latest incarnation of d20 Star Wars -- damage thresholds, condition tracks, simplified skills, special ability picks a la Nine Swords etc. If that's the direction they choose to go in then it'll definitely be a game I'll look into. Simplicity, elegance, and the opportunity to build characters rather than shoehorn them into one of umpteen prestige classes will all be big sellers for me.

Wow.

I guess I'm certain about 4e, but Drew sure made a good case for getting Star Wars Saga, if that's what he's talking about. I probably wouldn't even use it for Star Wars.

I would check it out, just to see what it was like if nothing else,

Judging from WotC's recent actions I'd guess they will state the release of this game sometime before the end of this year, and you can buy it later in to the following year



(btw new guy in town )

Perhaps.  But they really will have to put on a damn good show to make me look away from my C&C, and Rules Cyclopedia (not to mention the first two AD&D editions too).

Welcome to the party, pathfinerap.

And that's fine by me; between an eBay binge, the Delta Green reprint, Wild Talents already received and REIGN down the pipe, I could use a break from buying cores for a while.

Heh. Large parts of my eBay binge are AD&D (1st) and a Rules Cyclopedia.

Thanks for the welcome Christmas Ape,


I don't understand peoples veiws of this game being release years down the line, (esp in light of WotC's recent activity)

Quote from: DangerPerhaps.  But they really will have to put on a damn good show to make me look away from my C&C, and Rules Cyclopedia (not to mention the first two AD&D editions too).

I don't think WotC will ignore you (but I'm just speculating).  Star Wars Saga shows me that WotC is paying attention to trends and what people want and complain about (despite the fact that people think they don't give a shit).

While I don't think they will particularly target nostalgia players, I think the streamlining of the 4th ed will be designed to target all groups.  Beginners will find it much easier to learn and beginning playing.  Current players will find it easier to use and write adventures for, and Nostalgic old school players will find it more concise like basic D&D...yet much more versatile (like one simple fighter class...but with skill trees to customize you character).

Of course I'm just guessing, but I certainly can see a trend in RPGs back toward the low entry commitment of the games of the 80s...and it's about time!(IMHO)

Quote from: grubmanI don't think WotC will ignore you (but I'm just speculating).  Star Wars Saga shows me that WotC is paying attention to trends and what people want and complain about (despite the fact that people think they don't give a shit).

They have to, we are their income, if we arn't happy we don't buy,

The problem is, they think they know better, not that they don't give a ...

Quote from: BalbinusDunno, I don't go on about it but I'm of the school of thought that says that 3e is so far from earlier editions it's basically a different game with common branding.  I hadn't guessed what would be up with that, christ alone knows what 4e will be like.

The man speaketh the truth.  :cool:

Quote from: grubman... Furthermore, I think it would be the best edition of D&D yet.  Why?  Because of the definite trend of RPGs to be more user friendly, concise and more streamlined while remaining comprehensive (I credit Savage Worlds for starting the trend, and think Star Wars Saga will introduce the concept to the greater RPG community), and less work for the GM to make and run adventures.  All the changes I'm seeing so far in Star Wars Saga would greatly benefit D&D (IMHO)...

I hope you're right about this, Grubman.

My main worry is that it will be even more miniatures-focues in nature than 3.5.  That would be a real turn off for me.

Yep, can't hate what I don't know.  Hell, I might even like it, I doubt it very much but one can always hope.

One solution I think might go a long ways would be to make feats and skills optional or have a fixed list and an open option.

That way a fifth level fighter could just have the fixed list of feats and skills and be done.

But even then they'd have to clean up the whole classes and prestige classes mess a great deal, come up with a better balancing system for the weapons that makes double weapons completely pathetic.

But hope springs eternal.