Quote from: HackmastergeneralMonsters are for players to kill, after a fashion.  They are for players to interact with.  The DM plays them, and knowing all their abilities and mystique ruins the mystery.

So, players who read the MM ruin the game?

QuoteMagic Items are for use and utility by the players.,

The DM provides them, and knowing all their abilities and mystique ruins the mystery.

I really admire the balls behind the design decisions for 4e. Let's hope it works for them, because, in the final analysis, i see no reason for the plan for the PHB II, DMG II, MMII etc, and then 3, a year later. The mechanics are so transparent, and power creation so easy, that all you have to do is have a look at what has already been done for you and then crank out new feature after new feature. It doesn't even take long. Half an hour and i reckon that the majority of GMs or players could whip up a Bard or Druid class given what we've seen.

With no hint of a lie (and not being big-headed), i think i could create a PHB II in a couple of months - if they follow the exact model shown so far. If they do actually introduce wholly new mechanics, then that's another matter.

It's either really clever, or...

Quote from: StormBringerSo, players who read the MM ruin the game?

After a fashion, yes.  This has always been so, though -- an encyclopedic knowledge of the MM robs game encounters of their mystery and a good bit of tension.

Quote from: One Horse TownThe mechanics are so transparent, and power creation so easy, that all you have to do is have a look at what has already been done for you and then crank out new feature after new feature. It doesn't even take long. Half an hour and i reckon that the majority of GMs or players could whip up a Bard or Druid class given what we've seen.

What about "prestige" classes?  Classes that you develop into as you improve in your base class.  I've seen some scuttle about "paths" for the existing classes -- do these serve that purpose?  I like the idea of a Bard developing from a Rogue, a Ranger developing from a Druid, a Paladin from a Fighter (or Warlord, it would seem).

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWhat about "prestige" classes?  Classes that you develop into as you improve in your base class.  I've seen some scuttle about "paths" for the existing classes -- do these serve that purpose?  I like the idea of a Bard developing from a Rogue, a Ranger developing from a Druid, a Paladin from a Fighter (or Warlord, it would seem).

!i!

Paragon Paths run alongside your class. At 11th level, you can pick a Paragon path (which in effect is a template) or choose to multi-class (or improve your multi-class ability, if you have already done so). Paragon paths are basically specialities based on your class - a template or bundle of powers that are thematically linked to a certain aspect of your character class.

Quote from: One Horse TownParagon Paths run alongside your class. At 11th level, you can pick a Paragon path...

11th level?  Seems like rather a long time to wait, but, as I understand it, 4e encourages more rapid advancement.  Yes?

!i!

Quote from: Ian Absentia11th level?  Seems like rather a long time to wait, but, as I understand it, 4e encourages more rapid advancement.  Yes?

!i!

Not too sure - i think they've said somewhere that 1-30 should be about the same as 1-20 as far as time for advancement goes. You need 1,000,000 xps to get to 30th level. About 1250, i think for 2nd, so about 18-20 1st level opponents. Given the larger number of them in many encounters, i wonder just how quick advancement will be. I'm not one for super quick advancement myself.

I'll be ditching the XP system (as I do for every level based game I play) and going with the ever popular GM fiat method.

Quote from: StormBringerSo, players who read the MM ruin the game?

I wouldn't say "ruin", but the way the adventures are designed (Shadowfell, Kobold Hall) it looks like you are MEANT to encounter the same type of monster again and again, if in increasing numbers (obviously!), because you're supposed to start out ignorant but after a fight or two FIGURE OUT what their weakest defense score is (AC, Will, ...), which of them will fare particularly badly if you inflict condition X on them (there's a good dozen of those) and so on. So it's really knowing which power to use against which foe. A bit like playing the D&D 4th edition mini's game, where you plan your moves based on such knowledge. The difference to the RPG is that the monster stat cards don't lie flat on the table for all to see.

I think Mearls, and some playtesters on EnWorld (Rodrigo something, for instance), mentioned that learning curve in the RPG. Players won't "break" the game if they know the stat cards, but they partly ruin the fun of that particular game.

1st sill takes 1,000xp to get to, but 2nd only takes 2,250. On the surface it looks faster, but it felt slower in play. Our first fight was against 10-ish enemies. In 3.0 w might have leveled immediately after it. We'd definitely have leveled after out second fight against that many.

Spears sound like cool weapons at long last. Can anyone explain them in game terms? I think i've seen somewhere that they Push 1. Is that right? Seems like a cool weapon for anyone who isn't a straight up front-liner, if this is the case - it gives you some breathing space to do your stuff.

There is a feat you can take for a spear fighter that adds 1 to the number of squares you push someone, but spears themselves don't allow pushing. You have to use a power or ability to first gain a push in order to get the added benefit of the feat. Bull Rush is available to everyone, so you don't need anything special to benefit from the feat, but if you do have a power it's probably better than the default.

Quote from: James McMurrayThere is a feat you can take for a spear fighter that adds 1 to the number of squares you push someone, but spears themselves don't allow pushing. You have to use a power or ability to first gain a push in order to get the added benefit of the feat. Bull Rush is available to everyone, so you don't need anything special to benefit from the feat, but if you do have a power it's probably better than the default.

Ah, gotcha. I must have seen a PC with a feat added then.

Quote from: One Horse TownSpears sound like cool weapons at long last. Can anyone explain them in game terms? I think i've seen somewhere that they Push 1. Is that right? Seems like a cool weapon for anyone who isn't a straight up front-liner, if this is the case - it gives you some breathing space to do your stuff.

I was thinking the same thing.  Flails, too.

-O

Weapons are differentiated by their keywords:

Heavy Thrown: use strength instead of dex for to-hit and damage.

High Crit: extra damage dice on a critical

Light Thrown: Uses dex, and there are some powers that let you throw multiples.

Off-hand: Can be used in your off hand, although this doesn't grant a free attack like it did in prior editions. You need apower to do that (Rangers get an At-Will one).

Reach: Attacks can go farther, but AoOs are still adjacent only.

Versatile: Can use it two-handed for +1 damage.

Other than that, it's the feats and powers that determine if a weapon has a special ability. So for most people a flail and a battleaxe are the same weapon, as are a spear and a mace.