Since online retailers have already shipped books to folk, and not that there are PDFs easily found online -- if I worked for WotC I'd be letting the brick-and-mortar stores know they can start putting the books on the shelves and let people buy them.

Quote from: StuartSince online retailers have already shipped books to folk, and not that there are PDFs easily found online -- if I worked for WotC I'd be letting the brick-and-mortar stores know they can start putting the books on the shelves and let people buy them.

If you worked for WotC I'd be a happy man

Quote from: TrevelyanI agree entirely. But this too would result in a trend towards positive acceptance of 4E on forums as only those broadly in favour plus a handful of ardent sceptics continue the discussion. Which is what I'm seeing elsewhere, but what I'm not seeing so much here.

I think that has a lot to do with the genesis of this site.  "The Pundit" is all about the ranting and the soapbox and the kicking and the biting with the metal teeth and the hurting and shoving.  Add to that a good number of people here are either RPG.net alumni who ran afoul of their "be nice" policies, or Forge War veterans who spent time debating GNS and Brain Damage quotes.

On other sites you're more likely to see people say "Meh.  Let's talk about Battletech instead".

Generally I'm with Haffrung, but the huge difference between DLing a CD and DLing a 300-page rulebook is that the CD is playable as is and the book is not.

Very few people will teach themselves 300+ pages worth of crunch staring at a screen for hours on end if they have other options. And then there are the costs for color print outs.

Unless you're truly impoverished or rilly rilly want to make the point you're part of teh great technological revolution, a 4E pdf can't be more than an incentive to buy the book.

Now, a massively hyperlinked 4Esrd.org, that would be something else again.

Quote from: StuartI think that has a lot to do with the genesis of this site.  "The Pundit" is all about the ranting and the soapbox and the kicking and the biting with the metal teeth and the hurting and shoving.  Add to that a good number of people here are either RPG.net alumni who ran afoul of their "be nice" policies, or Forge War veterans who spent time debating GNS and Brain Damage quotes.

Sounds about right. But again, that's pretty much been my point all along, complete with references to Pundit as a prime example of the local trend.

That's why people here will continue to talk about 4e -- even if they don't like it.

But before we started seeing previews of 4e most people would have pegged this site (and definitely the Pundit) as very strongly pro- 4th edition.

Between the marketing campaign, and actual design decisions made for the new edition -- WotC chose a direction that genuinely didn't appeal to a significant* number of existing players.

With the pre-release campaign pretty much at a close, it was interesting, and I learned a lot from watching it unfold, and OMG I wouldn't want to emulate it.

* How significant we'll have to wait to see.

Quote from: StuartBut before we started seeing previews of 4e most people would have pegged this site (and definitely the Pundit) as very strongly pro- 4th edition.

Then, in terms of Pundy, they weren't paying attention. He literally declared that if 4e was in the works, he'd turn against WotC. It was and he did. He'd picked a side before any information other than the existance of 4e was released.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiThen, in terms of Pundy, they weren't paying attention. He literally declared that if 4e was in the works, he'd turn against WotC. It was and he did. He'd picked a side before any information other than the existance of 4e was released.

Seanchai

That's utter bullshit. I had always written in my blog that it was inevitable that someday there'd be a 4e, and I had every expectation that I'd be in favour of it.  Had they released it in 2009, like they'd implied they might at the D&D Experience 2007; or if they simply hadn't made any announcement at the D&D Experience 2007, my early blog posts regarding 4e would have been largely optimistic, rather than pessimistic.

But then, its hard to be optimistic when they start their entire new edition project by boldfacedly LYING to their customer base at an official venue.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jeff37923Ditto. Theft is theft.

Except when nothing is actually stolen. Then its illegal copying of intellectual property. Which isn't exactly the same as breaking a window and looting a house.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditExcept when nothing is actually stolen. Then its illegal copying of intellectual property. Which isn't exactly the same as breaking a window and looting a house.

RPGPundit

Not according to the ads at the beginning of DVDs around here.  If you copy a movie or song, you are a dirty fucking thief in the exact same manner as a carjacker.  I am waiting for the Dante's Inferno version, where the usurers and pedophiles go out of their way to avoid the 'pirates' in hell.

It is absurd when corporate interests make it so that the legal penalties for copying a PDF are higher than those of robbing an entire bookstore, or indeed, raping another human being.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditExcept when nothing is actually stolen. Then its illegal copying of intellectual property. Which isn't exactly the same as breaking a window and looting a house.

I never understood the hysteria from people over it.  It's like speeding, putting your trash in someone else's dumpster, not telling the cable company they are sending you free cable on accident, taking home some pens from work, or goofing off at work on sites like this instead of actually working during the day.

You know, stuff a whole lot of people do and most everyone else could care less about.  It's hardly something for people to try and take the moral high ground over.  That's just silly.

Yeah, it's a sorry state of affairs when actual physical harm to another person is a lesser crime than downloading some mp3s.

So I downloaded it... and, you know, it was waste of time, I could have downloaded some mp3s.

It turded to be worse than expected...

Quote from: jgantsI never understood the hysteria from people over it.  It's like speeding, putting your trash in someone else's dumpster, not telling the cable company they are sending you free cable on accident, taking home some pens from work, or goofing off at work on sites like this instead of actually working during the day.

People accidentally download music, movies, and game books?

If everybody stopped paying for cable today, there wouldnt' be any more cable companies. If there weren't any cable companies, there wouldn't be any cable. The only reason there are cable companies today providing the infrastructure and service for cable, is because most people pay. The people who do pay subsidize the people who take it without paying.

Look, all this shrugging off of getting stuff for free as defying faceless corporations is a bunch of bullshit. Do you think the CEO of SunLife says to his wife 'sorry, we can't go on that vacation to the Maldives because too many people are making fraudulent insurance claims (another 'victimless' crime)? Of course not. He simply passes on the cost of fraudulent claims to honest people who pay their premiums. Same with movies, books, music, or any other IP good that some people buy and some people take without authorization - the honest people pay for the freeloaders.

It's a pretty straightforward ethical question:

If everybody did

• , would it be a bad thing?[/B]
  
  If the answer to the question is YES, then whenever you do X you're selfishly screwing over other people. If doing X becomes the norm, then that good/service/property will eventually not be available at all and you'll screw over yourself.