this may end up as a downloaded set if my group are interested in playing it or running it over and above any other game, which I seriously doubt.

I don't care what I think about the publisher; I don't do piracy.

Quote from: jrientsOther: Leaning away from buying, will not download.

What the wise an powerful jrients said...

I still cant find the pdfs online.  i wanna check em out (i preordered)

Quote from: Caesar SlaadI don't care what I think about the publisher; I don't do piracy.

Ditto. Theft is theft.

Sigh. Here we go again with the typical hypocritical tripe.

The poll, however, is interesting. So far there are 10 people definitely buying and 22 people definitely not buying. Early on it looks like an anti-4E crowd. I'd predict that over time many of the "definitely not buying" crowd will eventually purchase a copy.

I'm leaning towards buying, but I won't be downloading. A skim through in a game store will suffice for me.

Quote from: GoOrangeSigh. Here we go again with the typical hypocritical tripe.

If there is widespread downloading of Madonna's new single I can't imagine it doing anything of substance to Madonna, or her lifestyle.  She will continue to be insanely wealthy for singing and dancing -- something not possible before the 20th century.

I can see that widespread downloading of 4e could affect sales of the books.  Looking for 4e reviews last night I already saw people talking about canceling their orders since they'd got the PDF.

If 4e sales tank, I can imagine that would affect the team that put those books together and their lifestyles... which aren't at the superstar level...  That doesn't seem fair if there's a genuine demand for the books.

If there was no way you were going to buy the books (either because you honestly couldn't afford to, or you had already decided they weren't worth it to you) then there's no loss to WotC from you downloading them.  Similarly if you had already bought the books (and weren't going to cancel an order) there's no loss to WotC from you getting the PDF as well.

I guess it depends on what % of people were eventually going to buy them, but get the PDF instead and call it a day.

I guess I feel bad for Mearls et al.  

Quote from: JaegerYour a thief. So at least be up front and admit it. Trying to justify your actions with excuses is rather lame.

At the very least don't lie to yourself.

I find that my opinion tends to be in the minority. But I can live with that.

Maybe in the minority of 12-30 year old gamers. But a majority of the broader society still supports intellectual property rights. I do wonder when the scales will tip, though, and what that will mean for any creative industry.

My bet is the commercial stuff will become even more conservative, and it will take huge investments of time to fish for quality in digital seas teeming with amateur products.

We'll see the effects first on creative content aimed at young men. Take a movie like the 300, for example. Huge outlay of cash to make the film, but what if the producers figure (correctly), on a world-wide audience of 20 million customers to make it economically feasible, but it turns out only 8 million of those customers are willing to actually pay for the movie? Looks like they lose money. And if people who sell creative material don't make money, they'll stop creating it. It's not as if the folks who finance films (or PC games, or RPG books) don't have other places to invest their money. Maybe we'll see how young actions fans enjoy the next 300 as produced by a few self-promoting film geeks on a budget of $12,000. I doubt the production values will impress.

Quote from: GoOrangeSigh. Here we go again with the typical hypocritical tripe.

It's only hypocritical if the folks who condemn IP theft engage in theft themselves.

Quote from: StuartI guess it depends on what % of people were eventually going to buy them, but get the PDF instead and call it a day.

If WotC are smart, they factored piracy into the business plan and hiked the cost of the hard-copy books in order to make up for theft (in the same way that retailers factor in the cost of shoplifting to the price of their merchandise). So the honest suckers who pay full freight are subsidizing the freeloaders.

Quote from: GoOrangeI'd predict that over time many of the "definitely not buying" crowd will eventually purchase a copy.

I'm not sure about that.  Maybe "some" but with the PDFs easy to find online, I can't see "many".

I have no idea how's the law in USA, but here in Czech Republic, it's not considered treft when you get copy for your own purposes. Treft happens when you share it...

Quote from: HaffrungMy bet is the commercial stuff will become even more conservative, and it will take huge investments of time to fish for quality in digital seas teeming with amateur products.

As an example of what happens when the power to distribute information leaves the hands of the expensive few and enters the hands of the everyone everywhere, look to the written word - and then the machine-printed word - for precedent.

Quote from: beejazzIt may be intentional on the part of WotC. The rumor mill was turning against them.

Which rumour mill is that? Outside of TheRPGsite public opinions seems to be growing increasingly positive.

Personally I've got the books preordered. I wouldn't normally be inclined to download them, especially since I doubt I'll get to play for a coule of months anyway, but since everyone else seems to be doing it and talking about them the temptation to take a sneaky peak is growing stronger and stronger....