Hello,


My friends and I are planning to play D&D 4e, we have never played 4e before, only 5e. I have initially planned to play a human barbarian but after reading through the books allowed to us by the DM and the class itself I am no longer sure, that I want to play barbarian.


Content allowed for us: Player's Handbook 1, 2, 3 and Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, if you are wondering, no the DM will not consider adding anymore books, as our group is rather new to 4e and he doesn't want things to be too complicated.


The issue lies mostly in the way that the class is designed, this will require some explanation. When I looked over the class I decided that I wanted to play a Rageblood barbarian, and found out that some of their class features and powers utilize Constitution. This of course means that I will likely want to invest a number of the ability score increases into it, but the issue lies in then not being able to raise Dexterity as much which is important to Barbarians due to them only having access to Hide Armor.


I thought about not investing in Constitution as much and just focus on Strength and Dexterity and not pick up any powers that utilize the Constitution modifier but that feels I am basically playing around bad design and limiting the options I have available, while the rest of the players on the team don't have to worry about such issues. I could try to spread the points between Dex and Con, while still increasing Strength but that means I won't be able to increase Wisdom which means my Will Defense will be especially atrocious and I don't want that.


I have thought about instead going with a Thaneborn Barbarian, but my friend has his heart set on playing a warlord and we would have a somewhat similar ability score spread, and based on what I know about the rest of the group I don't think any of them will  utilize a build that will have strong Wisdom and access to the Perception skill(Hello Surprise rounds). I have thought about getting access to heavy armor(up to Scale Armor) through feats but don't know if that will actually lead to an effective barbarian, as then I would have to consider Reflex Defense, since I won't be raising Dexterity as much. I don't want to drag the party down or have the DM make encounters easier because I didn't build my character properly.


Should I abandon the idea of playing a Barbarian and go for another class? Or would switching to heavy armor through feats solve my problems? Maybe the powers and class features that utilize Constitution aren't that strong and I should avoid them anyway? But then why am I even bothering with the Rageblood Barbarian if its design is such a mess?


This is how I planned to build my character at level 1


Human Barbarian Level 01


Stats after Racial Increases


Str 18

Con 14

Dex 14

Int 10

Wis 13

Cha 8


Feats: Armor Proficiency Chain, Armor Proficiency  Scale


At Will: Recuperating, Howling, Devastating

Encounter: Haven't Decided Yet

Daily: Haven't Decided Yet

  I can not really help, as I never played 4e (or 3e, or 2e) but I am curious as to why your DM decided 4e was the go to for a game.  I know 4e was not terribly popular, and I suspect with many people here the least popular version of D&D and maybe one of the least popular RPGs period.

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
  I can not really help, as I never played 4e (or 3e, or 2e) but I am curious as to why your DM decided 4e was the go to for a game.  I know 4e was not terribly popular, and I suspect with many people here the least popular version of D&D and maybe one of the least popular RPGs period.

It was mostly because we wanted a change from 5e and our DM really enjoyed playing 4e, and we decided to give it a chance. Thanks for the reply.

Quote from: Sellsword on July 03, 2021, 11:03:39 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
  I can not really help, as I never played 4e (or 3e, or 2e) but I am curious as to why your DM decided 4e was the go to for a game.  I know 4e was not terribly popular, and I suspect with many people here the least popular version of D&D and maybe one of the least popular RPGs period.

It was mostly because we wanted a change from 5e and our DM really enjoyed playing 4e, and we decided to give it a chance. Thanks for the reply.

   Did he tell you what he enjoyed about it?  Might I ask his/your age range?  I wonder if it was the first RPG he ever played.  I find there is always a nostalgic attachment to the first RPG game a person plays.

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:23:09 AM

Quote from: Sellsword on July 03, 2021, 11:03:39 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
  I can not really help, as I never played 4e (or 3e, or 2e) but I am curious as to why your DM decided 4e was the go to for a game.  I know 4e was not terribly popular, and I suspect with many people here the least popular version of D&D and maybe one of the least popular RPGs period.

It was mostly because we wanted a change from 5e and our DM really enjoyed playing 4e, and we decided to give it a chance. Thanks for the reply.

   Did he tell you what he enjoyed about it?  Might I ask his/your age range?  I wonder if it was the first RPG he ever played.  I find there is always a nostalgic attachment to the first RPG game a person plays.

Without going into specific ages I think he is about 10 years my senior and and he has been playing TTRPGs for 30 years, if I am not mistaken he first got into D&D with 2E.

As for why he liked it, he mentioned that he liked how tactical the combat is and how much options the characters have with the power system and how most of the classes were more else balanced. Which is something the entire group showed interest in as we were not fans of how martial characters were most of the time behind casters in 5e.

Quote from: Sellsword on July 03, 2021, 11:27:29 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:23:09 AM

Quote from: Sellsword on July 03, 2021, 11:03:39 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
  I can not really help, as I never played 4e (or 3e, or 2e) but I am curious as to why your DM decided 4e was the go to for a game.  I know 4e was not terribly popular, and I suspect with many people here the least popular version of D&D and maybe one of the least popular RPGs period.

It was mostly because we wanted a change from 5e and our DM really enjoyed playing 4e, and we decided to give it a chance. Thanks for the reply.

   Did he tell you what he enjoyed about it?  Might I ask his/your age range?  I wonder if it was the first RPG he ever played.  I find there is always a nostalgic attachment to the first RPG game a person plays.

Without going into specific ages I think he is about 10 years my senior and and he has been playing TTRPGs for 30 years, if I am not mistaken he first got into D&D with 2E.

As for why he liked it, he mentioned that he liked how tactical the combat is and how much options the characters have with the power system and how most of the classes were more else balanced. Which is something the entire group showed interest in as we were not fans of how martial characters were most of the time behind casters in 5e.

    At least in the past casters had a bit of a "deadly" phase to get past to become super powerful.  Now they come out of the box tossing ranged energy bolts and are hard to kill (past a TPK).   Used to be, they hit a magic missile, sleep spell and hid in the middle throwing darts and hoping not to get hit, till level 5 and then they added that nuke... which drew all the aggro from any survivors.    For my taste 5e actually has quite a few "magic" powers for martial characters I dont care all that much for either. 

    I think alot of this is due to the assumption I felt Gygax had in 1st ed was that the party would ALWAYS try to attack by surprise or from a position where they pulled enemies towards them.  3e on seems to always assume even footing for fights and complete lack of strategy (and more reliance on real time tactics once the fight started..well check that I guess rampant powergaming in 3e can be construed to some degree as strategy) from players to hedge encounters back in their favor.   Ah well, I am sure someone will be along who can actually help with this.  For my part I do not Gm 5e either (and only play rarely).

Hi, Sellsword. Don't sweat the armor class. I've played alongside barbarians in 4E before. If you are using your Rageblood Vigor right, you will be swimming in temporary hit points. You can tank hits. You'll be fine.

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:32:18 AM

Quote from: Sellsword on July 03, 2021, 11:27:29 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:23:09 AM

Quote from: Sellsword on July 03, 2021, 11:03:39 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
  I can not really help, as I never played 4e (or 3e, or 2e) but I am curious as to why your DM decided 4e was the go to for a game.  I know 4e was not terribly popular, and I suspect with many people here the least popular version of D&D and maybe one of the least popular RPGs period.

It was mostly because we wanted a change from 5e and our DM really enjoyed playing 4e, and we decided to give it a chance. Thanks for the reply.

   Did he tell you what he enjoyed about it?  Might I ask his/your age range?  I wonder if it was the first RPG he ever played.  I find there is always a nostalgic attachment to the first RPG game a person plays.

Without going into specific ages I think he is about 10 years my senior and and he has been playing TTRPGs for 30 years, if I am not mistaken he first got into D&D with 2E.

As for why he liked it, he mentioned that he liked how tactical the combat is and how much options the characters have with the power system and how most of the classes were more else balanced. Which is something the entire group showed interest in as we were not fans of how martial characters were most of the time behind casters in 5e.

    At least in the past casters had a bit of a "deadly" phase to get past to become super powerful.  Now they come out of the box tossing ranged energy bolts and are hard to kill (past a TPK).   Used to be, they hit a magic missile, sleep spell and hid in the middle throwing darts and hoping not to get hit, till level 5 and then they added that nuke... which drew all the aggro from any survivors.    For my taste 5e actually has quite a few "magic" powers for martial characters I dont care all that much for either. 

    I think alot of this is due to the assumption I felt Gygax had in 1st ed was that the party would ALWAYS try to attack by surprise or from a position where they pulled enemies towards them.  3e on seems to always assume even footing for fights and complete lack of strategy (and more reliance on real time tactics once the fight started..well check that I guess rampant powergaming in 3e can be construed to some degree as strategy) from players to hedge encounters back in their favor.   Ah well, I am sure someone will be along who can actually help with this.  For my part I do not Gm 5e either (and only play rarely).

The group I am playing with and I are growing pretty tired 5e as well. Currently I am DMing a Curse of Strahd campaign and we are near the end we are all eager to try out a new system as we feel the options in battle are quite limited, especially at low levels and Curse of Strahd only goes up to level 10.

Quote from: Cave Bear on July 03, 2021, 01:05:55 PM
Hi, Sellsword. Don't sweat the armor class. I've played alongside barbarians in 4E before. If you are using your Rageblood Vigor right, you will be swimming in temporary hit points. You can tank hits. You'll be fine.

Thanks a lot for the advice, do you recommend I focus on raising Constitution or to also raise Dexterity at least to a certain number?

There are enough other ways to raise AC that you could probably just dump Dexterity. Just make sure you raise that Constitution and play aggressively.
As long as you kill stuff, you can tank hits.
If you are ever worried that you can't tank more hits, then you aren't killing enough stuff.
And always remember: the only hit point that matters is the last one.

*edit

Quote from: Cave Bear on July 03, 2021, 01:20:37 PM
There are enough other ways to raise AC that you could probably just dump Dexterity. Just make sure you raise that Constitution and play aggressively.
As long as you kill stuff, you can tank hits.
If you are ever worried that you can't tank more hits, then you aren't killing enough stuff.
And always remember: the only hit point that matters is the last one.

Much thanks, I will focus on the increasing the damage and Constitution to stay alive. Once more thanks for the tips.

Also, get rid of those armor proficiency feats. You already get a bonus to AC and Reflex while running around shirtless. You'll benefit more from feats that improve your attack rolls and damage.
Get Axe Expertise from Heroes of the Fallen Land. Or Heavy Blade Expertise if you really want a +2 to defense against opportunity attacks.

*edit*
Improved Defenses would be a good choice as it gives you a +1 to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. Improved Initiative would be a fantastic choice for this build; just bulldoze the enemies before they get a chance to attack, and then you don't have to worry about taking damage.

Quote from: Cave Bear on July 03, 2021, 01:33:39 PM
Also, get rid of those armor proficiency feats. You already get a bonus to AC and Reflex while running around shirtless. You'll benefit more from feats that improve your attack rolls and damage.
Get Axe Expertise from Heroes of the Fallen Land. Or Heavy Blade Expertise if you really want a +2 to defense against opportunity attacks.

I will get rid of them and stick to Hide Armor. As for the Axe Expertise and Heavy Blade Expertise, sadly my DM doesn't allow the books they are from. I have to make due with the content I mentioned in my opening post (Player's Handbook 1, 2, 3 and Forgotten Realms Player's Guide).

Sorry about that. In that case, Weapon Expertise should still be fine. Don't underestimate a +1 bonus to hit.

Quote from: Cave Bear on July 03, 2021, 01:46:41 PM
Sorry about that. In that case, Weapon Expertise should still be fine. Don't underestimate a +1 bonus to hit.

its alright. I will pick up weapon Expertise, more accuracy is always welcome.

Quote from: Sellsword on July 03, 2021, 01:47:53 PM
its alright. I will pick up weapon Expertise, more accuracy is always welcome.

Awesome! Have fun, and remember to sound your barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world.