Yesterday on Twitter, Greg Bilsland tweeted this when talking about the D&D Essentials sets coming up-

 "@gregbilsland: There are a few significant revisions to core rules"

Significant revisions = D&D 4.5.  And it only took 2 years this time.

Quote from: mhensley;377631Yesterday on Twitter, Greg Bilsland tweeted this when talking about the D&D Essentials sets coming up-

 "@gregbilsland: There are a few significant revisions to core rules"

Significant revisions = D&D 4.5.  And it only took 2 years this time.

Nice time machine you've got there. But he wasn't talking about D&D Essentials.

"At an end your reign is, and not short enough it was?"
More information would be good before we can really say anything, methinks.

re: the Rules Compendium, by the way...

flamewar in 3...2...1...

Houston we have burn

If I'm following that Twitter feed correctly (and I may not, since I don't look at them very often) it looks like they're planning on introducing some modifications to the core rules in a supplement (Compendium) or an online document.  I don't see anything about a reprint/revision of the core books that I would qualify as 4.5 ed.

Quote from: mhensley;377631Yesterday on Twitter, Greg Bilsland tweeted this when talking about the D&D Essentials sets coming up-

 "@gregbilsland: There are a few significant revisions to core rules"

The other side of that conversation appears to be on http://twitter.com/paulbaalham

@gregbilsland  Thanks for the reply. Sorry to keep bothering you but which update will be the last one included in the Rules Compendium book?
(about 19 hours ago  via twidroid  in reply to gregbilsland)

@gregbilsland Are there any major rules revisions or is it mainly errata of powers/items? I'm glad WotC keeps doing these updates
(about 20 hours ago via web in reply to gregbilsland)

Yeah. You can break it down by clicking the "in reply to" links at the end of each tweet. Here's the full conversation:

QuoteGreg: Putting the final touches on the #dnd rules update document to go up next Tuesday.

Paul: @gregbilsland Are there any major rules revisions or is it mainly errata of powers/items? I'm glad WotC keeps doing these updates

Greg: @paulbaalham There are a few significant revisions to core rules.

Paul: @gregbilsland Thanks for the reply. Sorry to keep bothering you but which update will be the last one included in the Rules Compendium book?

Greg: All the updates you see next week will be included in RC. The July updates won't affect Rules Compendium, b/c it will focus on powers/feats.

I'm assuming that last is in reply to Paul, although it's not specifically addressed to him, because it answers his question.

The rules updates are nothing new. The last round of updates made a significant change to how staffs (and other magical implements that are also weapons) worked, changed the rules for forced teleportation, and a few other things. If the rules updates count as a significant change, we're at something like D&D 6.5 by now.

We'll know in a few years whether the 4E Essentials line was really a like 4.5E or a "dumbed down" version akin to B/X D&D or BECMI, in hindsight.

If it turns out to be regarded as a watered/dumbed down D&D (whether real or perceived), the detractors may lump it into the B/X D&D or BECMI category.

If it turns out to be just as complex and messy as the already released 4E D&D core books and splats, the detractors may very well regard it as a 4.5E (except in name).

The other scenario is if the 4E Essentials line is DOA and abruptly canceled.  Then we'll never know.  But it won't stop the detractors from claiming victory.

Quote from: ggroy;377661We'll know in a few years whether the 4E Essentials line was really a like 4.5E

We'll know in a few months if the new softcovers will serve any purpose beyond drawing in impulse buyers who've never heard of RPGs or D&D before (roughly the same thing).

As to whether these softcovers will replace the shiny hardcovers whose spines won't break the moment you flatten them on the table... for people who have them... remains to be seen.

Quote from: Windjammer;377665We'll know in a few months if the new softcovers will serve any purpose beyond drawing in impulse buyers who've never heard of RPGs or D&D before (roughly the same thing).

Even if they're trying to do that as their primary purpose, wonder how they're going to bring it to the attention of such customers.  For example, are they going to make tv commercials advertising 4E Essentials on cable channels like Nickelodeon, Spike, Syfy, etc ....?  Or are they going to be selling these books in the toy section of Wal-Mart or Toys R Us?

@ggroy - the thing to remember is that the core rules of D&D 4.0 are very simplistic. The complexity comes from the powers. This is a consequence of the exception based design.

The implication is that you can create an entirely different feel to the system by altering the package of powers, feats, rituals, and classes and it would still be using the same core rules as D&D 4.0.

Another implication that such a change would not automatically obsolete prior characters. You have the original set of classes in PHB 1 to 3 and now a new set of classes with similar names in the Essential line. It may be that the Esstential versions are underpowered or more limited choices. But it would not make them a 4.5.

Regardless of the rules' particulars, the Essentials line in effect fulfills the same marketing role as 3.5 did: to basically re-sell the core rules to the D&D audience (and beyond, if everything goes according to its stated plans, which I begin to doubt, given its cover - by which I mean, I suspect the product is targeted more at gamers already playing the game than the fabled larger audience WotC keeps claiming it wants to reach). So yes, Essentials = 3.5.

One way to gradually nudge present customers to the 4E Essentials line, would be to gradually phase out the older DDI character builder entries for 4E powers, feats, etc ... and replacing them with their 4E Essentials versions.  Though doing something like this too fast and abruptly may backfire considerably.

Something like this could be done under the guise of "corrections and revisions", albeit gradually.

The first place where this can probably be done easily, would be in the free demo version of the DDI character builder for the first three levels.

EDIT:  At a future date they may very well announce something like, "older 4E non-Essentials books are no officially longer supported by the DDI character builder".  Depending on how successful the 4E Essentials line is, this cut-off date could be anywhere from right away (ie. the free demo version) to a few years in the case where the Essentials line takes a considerable amount of time to catch on.

Quote from: Benoist;377678Regardless of the rules' particulars, the Essentials line in effect fulfills the same marketing role as 3.5 did: to basically re-sell the core rules to the D&D audience (and beyond, if everything goes according to its stated plans, which I begin to doubt, given its cover - by which I mean, I suspect the product is targeted more at gamers already playing the game than the fabled larger audience WotC keeps claiming it wants to reach). So yes, Essentials = 3.5.

No, it does not. WotC has been really clear about this: Essentials is designed to open up new markets and make it easier for non-hobby stores to sell the game to newcomers. You can suspect all you want, but all you're doing is making stuff up.

The nostalgic cover is /free/. It does not cost WotC anything in terms of the core purpose to have that cover. It ain't evidence of anything.